With 9mms like PM9, PF9, and 709, what's the point of .380s?

[StrikeFire83]

With tiny, reliable 9mms like the Kahr PM9, Kel-Tec PF9, and the Taurus 709, what's the point of all these tiny .380s?

Okay, so maybe this is a loaded question, but I'm serious. I own a Kahr PM9, and after some trouble with becoming able to shoot it accurately, I'm getting pretty decent with it. I've carried the gun in slacks, chinos, jeans, jean shorts, REI synthetic shorts, and it carries really well. About the only place I can't see being able to carry the PM9 is a pair of very light soccer/gym shorts, and those rarely have pockets anyway.

I also own a Kel-Tec P3AT, which I bought several years ago with the intention to carry but somehow it never replaced my j-frame...and then the Kahr came along. Add to that the fact that .380 ammo is and has been nearly impossible to find in my area at prices under $20+ per box, and I find myself asking the question, what's the point of these guns? I know people are still buying them like hotcakes, but with other great small 9mms like the Kel-Tec PF9, the new Taurus, etc that you can carry in pretty much any situation you can carry a P3AT or LCP, why NOT carry a major caliber that is much better for self-defense than .380?

Methinks the P3AT is getting sold at some point in the near future.

 

[kurt1305]

To make it a fair fight!

 

[wnycollector]

To make it a fair fight!

This reminds me of one of my favorite Clint Smith quotes "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck"

 

[StrikeFire83]

I guess to re-phrase my question: If you can buy a gun that shoots a cheaper, more powerful, more widely available cartridge, and carries virtually anywhere the small .380s can, why wouldn't you?

 

[wnycollector]

If you can buy a gun that shoots a cheaper, more powerful, more widely available cartridge, and carries virtually anywhere the small .380s can, why wouldn't you?

I agree. I had put a P3AT or LCP on my list of must have's a while ago...then I got around to trying to shoot one (the P3AT). Lets just say, I bought a PF-9 and I'm VERY VERY happy with it.

 

[chuck pullen]

That's a very good question.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Only thing I can think of is if a person doesn't feel comfortable with the recoil of a 9 on such a small and light pistol. In that case they would be better off with a .380 or .32.

 

[GRIZ22]

I see your point. I got rid of (wish I didn't) a Beretta 84 when I got a S&W 6906. Basically both the same size, 380 vs 9mm. I think the popularity of the 380 is due to the fact people will buy something "just a little bit" smaller. That and along with the fact many peopel will say you need at least a "35 caliber" for SD.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

All 3 listed alternatives I consider junk---so LCP it is.

 

[DSAPT9]

Size is still the factor My Ruger LCP will fit in my jeans front pocket and is easy to get out the others will not. I carry a G19 90% of the time but in the summer on the beach in shorts and a T-shirt the LCP is easy to carry the 19 is not. Yes the ones you stated are smaller than the G19 but the LCP is still smaller.

Just my thoughts

 

[StrikeFire83]

All 3 listed alternatives I consider junk---so LCP it is.

Hmm, you consider Kahr, Kel-Tec, and Taurus junk, and yet you bought an LCP, which is basically a kel-tec. Okey dokie.

 

[Ben86]

To have even smaller and thinner weapons. 9mms can get really small, but not as small as .380s.

 

[atblis]

There's a substantial size difference between the PF9 and the P3AT

The PF9 barely fits in a pocket, and even then it's tight and hard to draw.

P3AT fits in a pocket nicely.

I have a PF9 because I refuse to buy a 380 for various reasons.

 

[StrikeFire83]

^Yes, and I get that. But all handguns have one thing in common, they have to fit the human hand. I'm not a large man, 5' 10" and about 195, with medium sized hands, but the P3AT is a tiny gun, and I don't see how it would be comfortable to hold/shoot for more than 25 rounds or so for anyone but women and people with little bitty hands.

 

[Ben86]

That's just it. It is not comfortable to shoot, it is comfortable to wear. I dread having to practice with my LCP. But I still shoot it well and it fits with any attire except my birthday suit.

 

[BlayGlock]

I personally have no use for one. My wife however, is a small lady, who wears tighter-fitting lady clothes. The LCP is more thin enough sometimes where the MK9 we have is not.

 

[saturno_v]

This topic has been beaten to death over and over....just use the search function

There are really not reasons for the 380 and the small 32 ACP anymore.

Unless you are EXTREMELY recoil sensitive or you want to go around in your underwear carrying concealed.

Some want extreme comfort in carrying in their pocket so they look for the tiniest possible pistol...IMHO that defy the purpose because when the non edible chocolate hits the fan I want a capable round (and acceptable accuracy) to defend myself.

If you take the decision to carry, dress appropriately for the task, your life is at stake.

That said, with the modern ultra compact 9mm out there (and some .40 and .45) you can put them in your front pocket in any attire, I carry my P-11 when I wear a suit.

It does nto print more than a regular smart phone. Just do not buy pants with the smallest pocket possible

 

[atomd]

This has been brought up a lot recently. .380 is popular right now because the .380 pistols are still much smaller and much lighter than the 9mm pistols. There's still no comparison....yet. The 9mm pistols are getting really small but the closest they've come to pocket .380s is the Rohrbaugh which is about a grand and has it's own set of negatives too. Put on a pair of properly fitting dress slacks and then put a PF9 in one front pocket and a LCP in the other...then you'll see what I mean.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I would agree that the PM9 and those other guns have rendered .380s of equal size obsolete. But there is still a niche for smaller .380s and even .32s, e.g., the LCP, Seecamp, etc. They are considerably thinner and shorter than even the PM9 (I have one myself) and can fit into places that the larger gun cannot.

 

[ttheel]

Is this a trick question? The LCP and P3AT are quite a bit smaller than all of the pistols you mentioned. Lets take the PM9 for instance. It weighs 5 ounces more and is quite a bit thicker. I was in the market for a "pocket" pistol just a few months ago. I was actually going to buy the PM9 until I compared it to an LCP in my front pocket. There was absolutely no comparison. In a pocket holster the LCP printed like a wallet and the PM9 more like a brick....and it felt like one also. It still took me about 30 minutes to change my mind away from the Kahr but in my circumstances it was really an easy decision. I carry more now than I ever have at any point in my life. The tiny LCP basically made it more practical for me to do so. Now as far as 9mm, I love the cartridge. I absolutely love my SIG P228 and it would take a very sizeable offer for me to part with it and I'm not sure that I even would then.

By the way I dont understand all the complaining about shooting the LCP and P3AT. Mine is really fun to shoot and is extremely accurate. I never believed a mouse gun could be this accurate. Baseball size 2 magazine groups at 8 yards.

 

[usp9]

what's the point of .380s?

Great guns...that's why. There are some outstanding firearms made in the .380acp. They are proven reliable, some have great accuracy and a couple have great ergonomics. Not everyone thinks the ammo is the only question to be answered...some people think the proficiency of the shooter is the most important factor in defense.

 

[atblis]

The PF9 isn't that bad to shoot. For me, it's actually got better the more I shoot it.

 

[oneounceload]

and I don't see how it would be comfortable to hold/shoot for more than 25 rounds or so for anyone but women and people with little bitty hands.

Mouse guns aren't meant for that anyway. 32 and 380's fit in places no 9mm (Rohrbaugh excepted) can fit. Look at the mousegun chart and see the measurements - inch increments and ounces count when carrying in a pocket

 

[NinjaFeint]

Some people want even smaller and thinner than a PM9 or PF9. I actually want the Kahr 380 but not until .380 is readily available at a cheaper price. I figure I can just throw it in my pocket quicker when I am running out or use it on those few occasions when my PM9 won't work.

So I do understand why someone would want one.

 

[MrWesson]

I dont think that since .380 has been hard to find that guns that fire that round are flying off the shelves. Any time I see someone shooting .380 I just imagine that they bought the gun when ammo was available. If not I would have to say if you buy a .380 right now you are nutty.