"Without hand fighting skills, you are just a walking holster"

[Corpral_Agarn]

Before Covid, I was big and reasonably quick. Now I'm the lumbering idiot that stands around and gets slugged. I swear, when the instructor says "Time for heavy bag work!" everyone gathers around me.

LOL

Don't feel bad, heck I had to a take a week off for a trip to the Tetons and when got back I had, apparently, forgotten everything I had ever learned about grappling

 

[bratch]

We have a couple of 250+# black belts, they are a lot of fun…

Closed guard is your friend if you can’t get on top.

 

[geologist]

I wouldn't be offended by it. Part of it may be based on the fact that most people are inherently decent and good and the desire to not harm others, even in self defense runs deep.

In order to use defense techniques (hand, blade, stick, gun, they're all just tools) you have to be willing to harm the attacker. To what degree depends on the attacker, the circumstances and YOU.

I teach my students that an attacker can only want three things from you: your material goods, your body or your life.

BEFORE you have to defend yourself, I think it is good to decide in your mind what you are willing to do to defend yourself under escalating danger levels.

It's up to each individual to decide how far they are willing to go to defend themselves and their loved ones. Then you have to train. Hard and often.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Another update:

I finally made it to a tournament.
I managed to finish first in Gi and second in No-Gi.

It was a pretty good time all around and the experience was really fascinating.

My wins were all by submission (two arm bars and one Americana) and my loss was also by submission (arm bar).
The armbar that got me actually "popped" my arm a little bit and it is very sore.

I have a lot to work on but it was nice seeing the hard work pay off.

My wife took video but I think her lens might have been smudged or something, IDK. I'll see if I can upload them to YouTube a little later.

Pics for those interested:

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

For those interested, gets the video from the tournament

 

[JR24]

Well done!

There's a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (and some other stuff) dojo in town that I'm really considering taking up.

 

[.38 Special]

Congratulations! (Are you still a "walking holster"? )

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Congratulations! (Are you still a "walking holster"? )

Compared to some, absolutely.

Compared to other people my size with a little bit of training... Maybe not...

LOL

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Compared to some, absolutely.

Compared to other people my size with a little bit of training... Maybe not...

LOL

Congrats! You saw an area where you were weak and addressed it. I imagine your skills are vastly better than 99% of folks that don't train. I'd love to study BJJ myself and was considering it before I destroyed my shoulder. Been doing PT for almost 4 months and I'm still not even close to being back to where I can do all the normal stuff again. Every few weeks I ask my therapist if I'm to the point where I can try my new Beretta 1301 Tactical and the answer is always, "Nope, that's a ways down the road yet."

 

[FL-NC]

Congrats! Glad your training paid off and was validated. Is MMA next? Maybe some bare knuckle boxing?

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Congrats! Glad your training paid off and was validated. Is MMA next? Maybe some bare knuckle boxing?

LOL

I might try my hand at Muay Thai but I'm chose grappling because they're aren't as many blows to brain bucket.

And I like grappling. Idk if I'll like getting punched hahaha

Everything I read about bare knuckle suggests that it's probably better for your head than gloved. But dang you sure do bleed alot

 

[.38 Special]

The big issue with bare knuckle is that it is just about guaranteed to damage your hands. I can't imagine getting into it recreationally.

The good news about Muay Thai, @Corpral_Agarn, is that in your weight class nobody can hit hard enough to do you any real harm.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

The good news about Muay Thai, @Corpral_Agarn, is that in your weight class nobody can hit hard enough to do you any real harm.

That's a good point

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I had to take 2 weeks off for the ole Rona and last night was my first night back.

I took 2 weeks off and 3 months backwards, it feels like...

And I thought shooting was a perishable skill!

Back at it tonight.

 

[bratch]

The less time you’ve trained the more time off hurts and feels like a step backwards.

Once you have 10 years on the mats 2 weeks off will just start healing a few of your injuries and you won’t notice much rust.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

The less time you’ve trained the more time off hurts and feels like a step backwards.

Once you have 10 years on the mats 2 weeks off will just start healing a few of your injuries and you won’t notice much rust.

It's a lot like shooting competition in that sense.

Last night was a significantly better performance and I think that really, what it comes down to, is that I train no-gi a lot less than gi (schedule just doesn't line up) so i'll just have to work on that.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I've been grappling for a full year as of 11/2/2021.

I have had a good experience so far. I like that the sport fits with my schedule, gives me a great way to get in some quality cardio, I learn things, good comradery, etc.

I had to take 5 weeks off because I contracted Molluscum, a skin virus (common in children, apparently) and really didn't want to pass it off to someone else. I got most of them frozen off and used Tea Tree wipes liberally to clear up the rest.

Last night was my first night back and wow, 5 weeks of being lazy sure does ruin you cardio!

Except for the cardio the moves and techniques were slowly coming back to me.

 

[david58]

deleted

 

[.38 Special]

I've been grappling for a full year as of 11/2/2021.

I have had a good experience so far. I like that the sport fits with my schedule, gives me a great way to get in some quality cardio, I learn things, good comradery, etc.

I had to take 5 weeks off because I contracted Molluscum, a skin virus (common in children, apparently) and really didn't want to pass it off to someone else. I got most of them frozen off and used Tea Tree wipes liberally to clear up the rest.

Last night was my first night back and wow, 5 weeks of being lazy sure does ruin you cardio!

Except for the cardio the moves and techniques were slowly coming back to me.

I've really enjoyed this thread, for whatever it is worth. I believe more than ever that too many of us have far too much faith in our guns, and it is good to see someone putting in the considerable work to make himself into so much more than just "a walking holster".

Of course, a sensible man would have learned a stand-up method, to avoid nasty skin diseases if nothing else, but hey, we all have to start somewhere.

 

[nick22]

Just found this thread and have enjoyed reading through it. My sons and I have been training at a local dojo on and off for the last decade. They cover everything from traditional karate to grappling. I believe it's very important to train standing and rolling because in a real life and death encounter someone will end up on the ground almost everytime. Far too many people believe their gun will save them we are the weak link.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Of course, a sensible man would have learned a stand-up method, to avoid nasty skin diseases if nothing else, but hey, we all have to start somewhere.

Glad to hear!

I hope to get some standup in 2022, maybe!

 

[wvfarrier]

I learned a long time ago that one of the best "self defense" skills is learning how to take a punch. I cant tell you how many new officers I trained in defensive tactics who had NEVER been in a fist fight. Just like pepper spray and tasers, you have to know how to react and respond. I thought I was prepared for about anything until I got stabbed. Let me tell you, it took the fight right out of me. Fortunately I had another officer with me and he handled it. If not, I wouldve been in serious trouble.

I know BJJ is the current flavor and I did a year of it but found it to be essentially useless in real combat. Traditional judo has proven (to me) to be considerably more effective in hand to hand combat. A couple major issues with BJJ is that an adversary with any type of weapon (heck, even a pen) can neutralize a great deal of the attacks. I know from experience that if I use a pen against a rear naked choke, it works quite well. Or, if your attacker has a friend and you take him to the ground, your a likely to get a boot to the head. While a throw, something simple like an Uchi Mada can end a fight immediately but if nothing else, it creates distance allowing you to disengage or escalate beyond "hands".

Again, Im not trying to insult any BJJ practitioners or the art itself. This is just my opinion from 30+ years of martial arts and a lifetime of practical applications.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I learned a long time ago that one of the best "self defense" skills is learning how to take a punch. I cant tell you how many new officers I trained in defensive tactics who had NEVER been in a fist fight. Just like pepper spray and tasers, you have to know how to react and respond. I thought I was prepared for about anything until I got stabbed. Let me tell you, it took the fight right out of me. Fortunately I had another officer with me and he handled it. If not, I wouldve been in serious trouble.

I know BJJ is the current flavor and I did a year of it but found it to be essentially useless in real combat. Traditional judo has proven (to me) to be considerably more effective in hand to hand combat. A couple major issues with BJJ is that an adversary with any type of weapon (heck, even a pen) can neutralize a great deal of the attacks. I know from experience that if I use a pen against a rear naked choke, it works quite well. Or, if your attacker has a friend and you take him to the ground, your a likely to get a boot to the head. While a throw, something simple like an Uchi Mada can end a fight immediately but if nothing else, it creates distance allowing you to disengage or escalate beyond "hands".

Again, Im not trying to insult any BJJ practitioners or the art itself. This is just my opinion from 30+ years of martial arts and a lifetime of practical applications.

Great post and I appreciate your view point.

Don't worry about offended the bjj practitioners. For one, this isn't that kind of thread... And two: we can take it LOL

I personally think that grappling without good takedowns (wrestling/judo) is not super valid self defense training.

My particular gym does a lot of takedowns and going to the ground in any kind of regular fight is never "plan A". That being said, a lot of fights end up on the ground and I think there's some merit in being proficient from there. Especially when up against a larger opponent.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I learned a long time ago that one of the best "self defense" skills is learning how to take a punch. I cant tell you how many new officers I trained in defensive tactics who had NEVER been in a fist fight. Just like pepper spray and tasers, you have to know how to react and respond. I thought I was prepared for about anything until I got stabbed. Let me tell you, it took the fight right out of me. Fortunately I had another officer with me and he handled it. If not, I wouldve been in serious trouble.

I know BJJ is the current flavor and I did a year of it but found it to be essentially useless in real combat. Traditional judo has proven (to me) to be considerably more effective in hand to hand combat. A couple major issues with BJJ is that an adversary with any type of weapon (heck, even a pen) can neutralize a great deal of the attacks. I know from experience that if I use a pen against a rear naked choke, it works quite well. Or, if your attacker has a friend and you take him to the ground, your a likely to get a boot to the head. While a throw, something simple like an Uchi Mada can end a fight immediately but if nothing else, it creates distance allowing you to disengage or escalate beyond "hands".

Again, Im not trying to insult any BJJ practitioners or the art itself. This is just my opinion from 30+ years of martial arts and a lifetime of practical applications.

Good insight!

Not surprising, as BJJ was developed primarily for sport and not combat.

A lot of martial arts as taught in the States, most especially in the early years of personal discipline, and definitely as taught when involving younger students, is not combat oriented.

I've a brother in his mid-60s who teaches martial arts and who does a good job explaining the differences.

I've only a very minimal experience myself, mostly consisting of sparring with said brother when I was in junior high and high school. Combat martial arts of whatever flavor isn't interested in grappling and holding an opponent in good sportsmanship. It's interested in flat out ENDING a fight.

Bones break, joints dislocate, eyes lost, throats crushed, kneecaps dislocate, muscles cramp and lock up, blood flows, brain is concussed...it's very much an application of deadly force. And fights involving this level of physical combat tend to be very short.

Not saying, of course, that sporting martial arts isn't useful. But there's a big difference in training and mindset in being taught a sport and taught combat.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Good insight!

Not surprising, as BJJ was developed primarily for sport and not combat.

A lot of martial arts as taught in the States, most especially in the early years of personal discipline, and definitely as taught when involving younger students, is not combat oriented.

I've a brother in his mid-60s who teaches martial arts and who does a good job explaining the differences.

I've only a very minimal experience myself, mostly consisting of sparring with said brother when I was in junior high and high school. Combat martial arts of whatever flavor isn't interested in grappling and holding an opponent in good sportsmanship. It's interested in flat out ENDING a fight.

Bones break, joints dislocate, eyes lost, throats crushed, kneecaps dislocate, muscles cramp and lock up, blood flows, brain is concussed...it's very much an application of deadly force. And fights involving this level of physical combat tend to be very short.

Not saying, of course, that sporting martial arts isn't useful. But there's a big difference in training and mindset in being taught a sport and taught combat.

Another quality post!

What I like about the submission grappling is getting proficient with techniques that end the conflict without significant/permanent damage to the attacker or the one being attacked.

People will want fight about the most silly o things. So while a fight to the death is eye gouging and biting, I have little interest in hurting anyone.

So, if a grappler can render the attacker unconscious, or break an arm... Everyone lives on without permanent damage or loss of life. This is why a lot of experts on use of force encourage jiu jitsu to police officers. It's about controlling/ending a dangerous situation rather than killing your opponent.

More "tools" basically.

I am pretty sure it was Jocko Willink who was recounting his experiences working with capturing targets. What he found was that if you hit people (especially repeatedly), they will fight you every time. If you control them without really hurting them, they will allow for compliance.

There are a number of videos out there where a belligerent attacker rethinks his behavior when he finds himself unable to move or is rendered unconscious.