30 cal slob
Member
how many documented cases of public NDs have been associated with holders of valid CCW's?
how many have resulted in injury or death?
links?
how many have resulted in injury or death?
links?
Woman arrested in Disney Land for concealed weapon
- Thread starter vzenmn
- Start date
- Status
Jamie C.
Member
Wasn't gonna get into this aspect of the conversation, but given this comment, and the one earlier about "special training", I can't resist pointing out that LEOs have a notoriously low hit percentage when they're involved in any kind of shooting incident. Something like 15% or less, nationally. ( Anybody else ever wonder where the other 85% of their fired rounds go? ) They also have a pretty high incident of accidental/negligent discharges.
Now I'm not sure if stats on permit holder shootings, with regard to accuracy, even exist, but I'd bet a fair amount of money that the average permit holder doesn't do any worse than the average cop, when it comes to "Firearms Management".
As for the woman with the .32... I'm inclined to say she should be disqualified from carrying a gun due to shear stupidity. However, given her age, it's quite likely she's been carrying a gun around in her purse for a very long time now, and did just forget it was there. Still, that's no excuse, and I wouldn't let her off the hook for it. Carrying a gun does require a high degree of responsibility and attentiveness, after all.
One last thing... I've always felt that any place where large numbers of people (and/or children) gather were exactly where a person would be most likely to need a gun, and where having more armed people would be a good thing. At least that's been my experience anyway. A number of events in the news these past 20 years or so seem to bear this out as well. ( I won't bother listing them... Most of y'all are at least as familiar with 'em as I am. )
J.C.
Right, because it's not our goal to get carrying a weapon as much an everyday part of life as carrying an IPOD(tm). Come on, I will forget some personal items I may have on me and I'm not even thirty! I seriously doubt she's "stupid," she's just going about her everyday life.
Remember, guns don't go off by themselves...
Jamie C.
Member
Mak, I've been carrying a gun for about as long as you've been alive, from the sound of it... I've never once forgotten that I had one on me.
I've also never been arrested because I wandered into a place with something I shouldn't have brought there. ( Never been arrested at all, as a matter of fact. )
Then again, I'm quite familiar with the statement that "familiarity breeds contempt", and make a point of not getting "bit" by it.
Besides, neither society as a whole, or most of the folks here, are very forgiving of making "dumb mistakes" with a firearm... So why the sudden sympathy here, for this woman? Doesn't she make the rest of us gun owners look as bad as any other ninny that does something stupid with one?
J.C.
I've also never been arrested because I wandered into a place with something I shouldn't have brought there. ( Never been arrested at all, as a matter of fact. )
Then again, I'm quite familiar with the statement that "familiarity breeds contempt", and make a point of not getting "bit" by it.
Besides, neither society as a whole, or most of the folks here, are very forgiving of making "dumb mistakes" with a firearm... So why the sudden sympathy here, for this woman? Doesn't she make the rest of us gun owners look as bad as any other ninny that does something stupid with one?
J.C.
Well, I may be different, I tend to be forgiving of dumb mistakes that do not put anyone at risk.
I saw no indication she was being unsafe, simply carrying a weapon. As such, I will give her the benefit of the doubt.
Now if she shot someone because she forgot it was in her purse and pulled the trigger while searching for her keys, then I'd call her stupid. As far as I know, the gun was perfectly safe in the purse.
Jamie C.
Member
Carrying the gun wasn't in and of it's self stupid... Though having seen what some women carry around inside their purses makes me think that dumping an unholstered gun in there is asking for an AD/ND... At least hers didn't have a round chambered though. 
Being oblivious to the rules or regulations regarding one IS.
If you're aware of what you're risking, and willing to take the chance of getting caught, that's one thing. ( And possibly still pretty idiotic, depending on the situation. )
However, not thinking enough of it to have at least a little situational awareness, and some idea that you're about to end up in a whole lot of trouble... well that's another.
From the what I can gather from the article, the woman had no clue that dumping her purse out for inspection would land her in jail, or bring her any difficulty at all. And there's just no way that I can arrive at any conclusion other than "Damn that's dumb".
Now, the scissors and folding knife.... yeah, I can see where she wouldn't have thought they were any big deal. But not the gun. Certainly not in light of all the things in the news lately about shootings and such.
J.C.
Being oblivious to the rules or regulations regarding one IS.
If you're aware of what you're risking, and willing to take the chance of getting caught, that's one thing. ( And possibly still pretty idiotic, depending on the situation. )
However, not thinking enough of it to have at least a little situational awareness, and some idea that you're about to end up in a whole lot of trouble... well that's another.
From the what I can gather from the article, the woman had no clue that dumping her purse out for inspection would land her in jail, or bring her any difficulty at all. And there's just no way that I can arrive at any conclusion other than "Damn that's dumb".
Now, the scissors and folding knife.... yeah, I can see where she wouldn't have thought they were any big deal. But not the gun. Certainly not in light of all the things in the news lately about shootings and such.
J.C.
romma
Member
Sorry, I hope she gets a misdemeanor slap on the hand along with education on how to carry legally and in a wise manner...
I have a problem with anyone carrying in bags,purses, or anywhere other than on your person...
I have a problem with anyone carrying in bags,purses, or anywhere other than on your person...
musher
Member
Given her age, she could well have been carrying a gun since the sixties. I know for a fact that my grandfather always carried a gun in Texas--way before shall-issue was around.
He never seemed to worry about being caught. His explanation was that everybody "knew" that as long as you were an "upstanding" citizen, you wouldn't really get into any trouble.
It was a different time, and the rules were different. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out an older person was still operating under the rules they learned in their twenties and followed most of their lives. It may never have occurred to her, that it was even possible to obtain a permit.
For a lot of folks, tossing the gun in a bag or pocket is no more remarkable than grabbing your wallet--despite being 'technically' illegal.
I gotta go with the 'no harm, no foul' point of view on this. At worst, somebody ought to show her how to apply for a legal permit.
Its a Big Deal, because Disney who owns ABC< is making it a big deal, they want to make an example of how diligent they are just before the big holiday rush and winter travel season.
THIS IS JUST MANIPULATION> plain and simple. Had she been hot looking, she would have walked, but she was a tad scruffy, not the brightest bulb, and she walked into it. They are trying to set a image in peoples mind's that wow, they pat down even grandma's in MuMu's who are there with the grand kids. It image making, not reality. I went last spring, to both Busch Gardens and Disney and carried owb, under a lightweight oversized "flats shirt" and never even got a blink. I have a non res florida permit, and in my looking found nothing that said I was Prohibited from carrying there.
The other "items" the knife and scissors, I am willing to bet that if you dump out the purse's of a 100,000 women of that age group, you are likely to find scissors and some sort of a little pocket knife in about half, My mom carries a little leather man micro, both a pocket knife and scissors in both her purse and knitting bag, and they go everywhere with her. She's over eighty, and no one blinks at that. She also has a small pair of scissors and a "fruit knife" with her in her purse all the time, once she got dentures, she found out she had to cut up fruit to eat it, and carries a folding parring knife with her. Again, something about half the older women in America do.
If Disney wants me to feel safer about traveling to their parks, set up a bust on four or five bangers who get caught in the lot with hardware on them, I could give a crap if a gramma got a pea shooter in her bag. I Do worry about the gangs of thugs that show up there and intimidate in line etc,
THIS IS JUST MANIPULATION> plain and simple. Had she been hot looking, she would have walked, but she was a tad scruffy, not the brightest bulb, and she walked into it. They are trying to set a image in peoples mind's that wow, they pat down even grandma's in MuMu's who are there with the grand kids. It image making, not reality. I went last spring, to both Busch Gardens and Disney and carried owb, under a lightweight oversized "flats shirt" and never even got a blink. I have a non res florida permit, and in my looking found nothing that said I was Prohibited from carrying there.
The other "items" the knife and scissors, I am willing to bet that if you dump out the purse's of a 100,000 women of that age group, you are likely to find scissors and some sort of a little pocket knife in about half, My mom carries a little leather man micro, both a pocket knife and scissors in both her purse and knitting bag, and they go everywhere with her. She's over eighty, and no one blinks at that. She also has a small pair of scissors and a "fruit knife" with her in her purse all the time, once she got dentures, she found out she had to cut up fruit to eat it, and carries a folding parring knife with her. Again, something about half the older women in America do.
If Disney wants me to feel safer about traveling to their parks, set up a bust on four or five bangers who get caught in the lot with hardware on them, I could give a crap if a gramma got a pea shooter in her bag. I Do worry about the gangs of thugs that show up there and intimidate in line etc,
K3
Member
Because you have a problem with it, she should be charged with a crime?
In your OPINION, it is unwise to carry in a purse or bag.
What the hell happened to liberty and my country? Now even people on a gun forum have been hypnotized by all the collectivist, statist, it's for the children banter. :banghead:
Gun control has only increased in the last 100 years. What has been the trend with violent crime? Methinks it hasn't decreased.
Mongo the Mutterer
Member
romma said:
How about a purse with a lock? How about a Maxpedition over the shoulder bag?
Yes, you do have a problem...
AZ Jeff wrote;
That is very easy to say in theory, but in reality a child's life lost or ruined is worst in many peoples minds, mine included. Maybe you have never seen kids killed or maimed, but I have. While I use to give equal care to adults, and wanted to see them live/recover, the kids had a greater effect on everyone involved.
Florida lawmakers stuck a balance between general places and areas where kids gather in great number % wise and I agree with their decision. If I am going to go and pick up little Johnny and Mary from elementary school, I do not need to walk into the class packing a gun. If I had it on me because I was traveling with it, or wanted to have it later in the day, I'd secure it in the car for the few minutes it took to go and walk them back from their classroom. Inconvenient, yes, but something most reasonable people are willing to do that have a CCW.
I have carried where kids are present, but not in a place that is filled with kids such as a school. I suppose there are those who think FL CCW law is to restrictive, but as I've said several times, I think they have stuck a reasonable balance.
That is very easy to say in theory, but in reality a child's life lost or ruined is worst in many peoples minds, mine included. Maybe you have never seen kids killed or maimed, but I have. While I use to give equal care to adults, and wanted to see them live/recover, the kids had a greater effect on everyone involved.
Florida lawmakers stuck a balance between general places and areas where kids gather in great number % wise and I agree with their decision. If I am going to go and pick up little Johnny and Mary from elementary school, I do not need to walk into the class packing a gun. If I had it on me because I was traveling with it, or wanted to have it later in the day, I'd secure it in the car for the few minutes it took to go and walk them back from their classroom. Inconvenient, yes, but something most reasonable people are willing to do that have a CCW.
I have carried where kids are present, but not in a place that is filled with kids such as a school. I suppose there are those who think FL CCW law is to restrictive, but as I've said several times, I think they have stuck a reasonable balance.
BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
Did she have the Titanium one? That one is so
Soybomb wrote;
Sorry to have made you repeat yourself for an answer. Unfortunately when you are dealing with people attacking you for not being as one minded as they are, you tend to lose track of the more rational posters making genuine inquiries/points.
That is a valid question. My thoughts are that while we can think of good reasons to have guns present as law abiding citizens, we should not have guns around large groups of children in places that are relatively safe. One could argue that schools or places like Disney are not that safe, but I would beg to differ. So while people who carry guns can be both responsible and irresponsible with them, I'd prefer the ones who are irresponsible not be around my family when we are in a place like Disney.
The trouble is that some on this forum would feel the need to have a gun on them no matter where they would go, such as in the hospital at the birth of their child (you never know who might want to kidnap it from the doctors hands).
While they and I might be on the same side regarding the 2nd amendment in general, we do differ in the degrees to which we need to carry in civilized society. Berating and trying to brow beat me into their way of thinking serves no useful purpose other than to polarize each other. While I am not going to be driven to the other side because my beliefs are firm, I can start to appreciate how out there some of the fanatics on my side can be.
No, I have no idea what the Utah laws are like or the stats. I do suspect that the level of crime and the overall culture is much different than other parts of the country. Just as it drives us nuts when the anti-gun media talks about limited crime in gun free societies such as Japan, we are astute enough to realize that a totally different culture like theirs will not apply to a society like ours.
So while I do not have statistical evidence (nor am I aware that it is even gathered) of CCW's losing or accidentally discharging their firearms in public, I know it happens. So if it is going to happen, I'd prefer it not be around a high concentration of children, especially when the need for the presence of a firearm there is dubious.
Sorry to have made you repeat yourself for an answer. Unfortunately when you are dealing with people attacking you for not being as one minded as they are, you tend to lose track of the more rational posters making genuine inquiries/points.
That is a valid question. My thoughts are that while we can think of good reasons to have guns present as law abiding citizens, we should not have guns around large groups of children in places that are relatively safe. One could argue that schools or places like Disney are not that safe, but I would beg to differ. So while people who carry guns can be both responsible and irresponsible with them, I'd prefer the ones who are irresponsible not be around my family when we are in a place like Disney.
The trouble is that some on this forum would feel the need to have a gun on them no matter where they would go, such as in the hospital at the birth of their child (you never know who might want to kidnap it from the doctors hands).
While they and I might be on the same side regarding the 2nd amendment in general, we do differ in the degrees to which we need to carry in civilized society. Berating and trying to brow beat me into their way of thinking serves no useful purpose other than to polarize each other. While I am not going to be driven to the other side because my beliefs are firm, I can start to appreciate how out there some of the fanatics on my side can be.
No, I have no idea what the Utah laws are like or the stats. I do suspect that the level of crime and the overall culture is much different than other parts of the country. Just as it drives us nuts when the anti-gun media talks about limited crime in gun free societies such as Japan, we are astute enough to realize that a totally different culture like theirs will not apply to a society like ours.
So while I do not have statistical evidence (nor am I aware that it is even gathered) of CCW's losing or accidentally discharging their firearms in public, I know it happens. So if it is going to happen, I'd prefer it not be around a high concentration of children, especially when the need for the presence of a firearm there is dubious.
AZ Jeff
Member
I guess we have different perceptions here. I absolutely despise using the argument that when children are involved, it's somehow worse than when other innocents are involved. (This is a VERY common practice used by the gun grabbers, i.e. "do it for the children".)
We are going to have to disagree here. I don't see CCW around large groups of childern any more hazardous than CCW around 1, 2 or 3 children. I also seriously doubt anyone can produce ANY data that would show legal carriage of firearms in the presence of children increases the danger to children, or that as the number of children increases, the danger increases.
I DO think the chance that the children will be victims of an event that would benefit from CCW is greater the larger the number of children present. For this reason alone, I think prohibiting/restricting CCW when large quantities of children are present is actually COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to the safety of the children
AZ Jeff wrote;
Whether gun grabbers use it to make a point is irrelevant since most people will put more value into children's lives than that of grown adults regardless of how they feel about adults.
However for the sake of argument, lets take guns out of the equation.
You would be hard pressed to find parents who want to out live their young children. You would be hard pressed to find someone who had two people treading water about to go under, one a child and the other an adult, who would not try to save the child first. I'm sure you have heard the phrase "women and children first" as it applies to rescue/evacuation situations.
The premature loss of life is tragic in a 90 year old as well as a 9 year old. However most people would feel the 90 year old is at the end of their life were as a 9 year old was just starting theirs. I can't imagine you really value both lives equally, but while you might be the exception who does not put the welfare of a child over an adult, you would be in a very small minority.
That is an interesting viewpoint. So you think a large group of children, lets say in the Magic Kingdom are safer with a bunch of people who have firearms, than they would be if not
I would be interested to read about how many times people with CCW's have used their weapon in the Magic Kingdom to the safe benefit of children. Disney has created a reasonably safe environment within their theme parks as far as children being hurt by criminals. Kids are at much greater risk of injury there than their safety as it pertains to crime. Considering how many children pass through there every year unmolested by crime, I'd say they are doing a better job than many here want to credit them for.
Whether gun grabbers use it to make a point is irrelevant since most people will put more value into children's lives than that of grown adults regardless of how they feel about adults.
However for the sake of argument, lets take guns out of the equation.
You would be hard pressed to find parents who want to out live their young children. You would be hard pressed to find someone who had two people treading water about to go under, one a child and the other an adult, who would not try to save the child first. I'm sure you have heard the phrase "women and children first" as it applies to rescue/evacuation situations.
The premature loss of life is tragic in a 90 year old as well as a 9 year old. However most people would feel the 90 year old is at the end of their life were as a 9 year old was just starting theirs. I can't imagine you really value both lives equally, but while you might be the exception who does not put the welfare of a child over an adult, you would be in a very small minority.
That is an interesting viewpoint. So you think a large group of children, lets say in the Magic Kingdom are safer with a bunch of people who have firearms, than they would be if not
I would be interested to read about how many times people with CCW's have used their weapon in the Magic Kingdom to the safe benefit of children. Disney has created a reasonably safe environment within their theme parks as far as children being hurt by criminals. Kids are at much greater risk of injury there than their safety as it pertains to crime. Considering how many children pass through there every year unmolested by crime, I'd say they are doing a better job than many here want to credit them for.
Vector1, I am not calling you a troll. And I believe you have a CCW. But I believe your arguments are the same ones anti-gunners use, which is why you are stirring up such controversy.
Well, that is an anti-gunners argument if I ever heard one. Of course it is unlikely I would need a gun at a hospital, whether at the birth of my child or not. Or at a mall, or a school, or walking to the store, or Disney, or a park, or a library, or church, or a restaurant, or whereever I go, pretty much. If I knew I will need a gun someplace I sure as heck won't go there. It is a last ditch piece of emergency equipment that I am most unlikely to need-but I garantee you_could_need it at everyplace you mentioned. Or in the parking lot from your car to the hospital on the way to see your child.
I think there are a few places I shouldn't carry a gun. Commercial aircraft, bars (not restaurants). When drinking. But darn few. And I don't think that makes me fanatical.
Your arguments are the emotive ones anti-gunners use: why would you need a gun at the library, or school, or whatever place. You must be a fanatic! Or want to bring a SAM to school!
You think Florida's restrictions are reasonable? They are not so bad. They don't ban carry in hospitals and theme parks, for one.
Well, that is an anti-gunners argument if I ever heard one. Of course it is unlikely I would need a gun at a hospital, whether at the birth of my child or not. Or at a mall, or a school, or walking to the store, or Disney, or a park, or a library, or church, or a restaurant, or whereever I go, pretty much. If I knew I will need a gun someplace I sure as heck won't go there. It is a last ditch piece of emergency equipment that I am most unlikely to need-but I garantee you_could_need it at everyplace you mentioned. Or in the parking lot from your car to the hospital on the way to see your child.
I think there are a few places I shouldn't carry a gun. Commercial aircraft, bars (not restaurants). When drinking. But darn few. And I don't think that makes me fanatical.
Your arguments are the emotive ones anti-gunners use: why would you need a gun at the library, or school, or whatever place. You must be a fanatic! Or want to bring a SAM to school!
You think Florida's restrictions are reasonable? They are not so bad. They don't ban carry in hospitals and theme parks, for one.
Completely understandable.
Right I get that you think some places there we enter civilized society and don't need to carry. I'm not seeing why you think that all these people with carry permits are able to carry in places you approve of every day without accidents or problems but when you picture them in disney world you start picturing dead children. Where are the shot adults from all the other places that will make you think there'd be shot children.
I would encourage you, hopefully for your own academic curiosity, to look for those statistics. I'm not sure what crime rate or state differences has with regard to concealed carry. The statistics are certainly out there and gathered by many state issuing agencies. Plus any gun accident in really big news and I can probably count on one hand the number of concealed carry accidents I've seen written about in recent years. I don't think any involved people getting shot. Counting the number of children killed in safe places for that same time span is going to take more hands.
I sure have yet to see any reason to believe they'd be less safe.
AZ Jeff
Member
Let's take the Disney-specific factor out of the equation here, because Disney is an anomaly in the world of places populated by large numbers of children, and Disney probably does a better-than-average job of protecting their guests.
IN GENERAL, there are FAR MORE examples of children being victims in "gun free zones" than there are examples of CCW holders causing harm to children in high-child-density environments.
If you can provide me data that shows SPECIFICALLY that CCW in day care centers, schools, playgrounds, theme parks, etc (where children are an extraordinary percentage of the population) has caused undo harm, I will retract my statement.
Until then, given all the instances of where children HAVE been harmed by those intent on such actions in exactly those same types of places, I will insist that CCW in such places would actually be BENEFICIAL, and not detrimental.
So then the question becomes at what point are they "children" and more valuable then the "adults" surrounding them. Sure you used the example of a 9 year old vs. a 90 year old, but what about real life examples of a 15 year old vs. a 22 year old. Certainly they are both extremely tragic if one of them were to be "accidentally shot", but can you honestly say that
?
The reason you are getting so many peopel attacking you Vektor, is that you are using flawed logic in your statements about CCW. It is one thing for someone to own guns, but not carry them or think of them as "self defense", and noone here would call you an anti for that sentiment.
But the question becomes, why do you carry a CCW, if you in fact do? Is it for defensive purposes? Why would you bother carrying it at all if you weren't going to be carrying it ALWAYS. That's like becoming a black belt in karate, but wearing handcuffs in certain places.
As has been pointed out, you don't know where the danger is going to be (and if you did, why are you there?), so having a CCW means being prepared ALL THE TIME. And also, places where large amounts of children are, become targets to people that would want to cause lots of damage or terrorism. Those then become the places you would most want to be able to defend yourself and others.
Another question, do cops take off their duty belts whenever they go to a school? What about the law enforcement that we have all agreed is stationed inside Disney parks (uniformed or not)? Should they, or we, also be required to be unarmed in malls where teenagers hang out? Or public parks? Or boy scout camping trips?
I do not yet feel comfortable using my handgun in a defensive manner. I havent practiced with it enough, nor do I feel comfortable enough with it in general to pull it on someone. That is why I keep it locked up in my house when not in use. I will have no problem defending myself with the night stick or Katana next to my bed, if I have to, until I get more comfortable with my gun. But if I am not ready to use it to end the situation right there, I have no point in even having it available. Likewise if you are not comfortable having your weapon ready for defense at ALL TIMES, then you should not be carrying it at all.
DrewH
Even though many anti-gunners have nut case fanatics among them making absurd comments, they are not all like that. If some of my points sound like the moderate ones, maybe they can be persuaded to moderate their view not being to far gone like the wackos.
I certainly don't think of my views as being anti-gun, but maybe the guys on this forum are more hard core than I am accustom to interacting with. The guys I use to shoot with would laugh if they heard someone call me part of the Brady bunch.
Who knows maybe I am more moderate on some gun issues than I realize. For instance I was watching Hannity & Combs the other day discussing the old guy who shot and killer two burglars coming out of his neighbors home. I expected their guest from the "New Black Panthers" to be a raving racist nut case. Instead he was calm, rational, and well dressed. He spoke without emotion or hyperbole, and made a case for the man who shot the criminals to be charged with a crime. My first instinct was in defense of the old guy who shot the two bad guys. However after hearing the 911 tapes and hearing how they were unarmed, and he shot both of them in the back, it seemed excessive. When Shawn started in on the guest, I was expecting his typical good wit and logical reasoning. Instead he disappointed me with an emotional argument rather than scrutinizing the fact that this guy shot and killed two fleeing unarmed men. Granted they were burglars, and they deserved to be punished. However if the story I heard is accurate, I think the old guy used excessive force, and probably should face some type of penalty.
So like I said, I might be more moderate than I think I am, and to some here that comes across as me being a gun grabbing liberal.
You don't sound like a fanatic to me, but some on this board do. Even if they are not advocating SAM ownership, they attack anyone who is not 100% in lock step with their thinking. While that may not make them a fanatic, they certainly are on the fringe when they cant even recognize the difference between a liberal gun grabbing Brady bunch person and a moderate pro 2nd amendment person.
Even though many anti-gunners have nut case fanatics among them making absurd comments, they are not all like that. If some of my points sound like the moderate ones, maybe they can be persuaded to moderate their view not being to far gone like the wackos.
I certainly don't think of my views as being anti-gun, but maybe the guys on this forum are more hard core than I am accustom to interacting with. The guys I use to shoot with would laugh if they heard someone call me part of the Brady bunch.
Who knows maybe I am more moderate on some gun issues than I realize. For instance I was watching Hannity & Combs the other day discussing the old guy who shot and killer two burglars coming out of his neighbors home. I expected their guest from the "New Black Panthers" to be a raving racist nut case. Instead he was calm, rational, and well dressed. He spoke without emotion or hyperbole, and made a case for the man who shot the criminals to be charged with a crime. My first instinct was in defense of the old guy who shot the two bad guys. However after hearing the 911 tapes and hearing how they were unarmed, and he shot both of them in the back, it seemed excessive. When Shawn started in on the guest, I was expecting his typical good wit and logical reasoning. Instead he disappointed me with an emotional argument rather than scrutinizing the fact that this guy shot and killed two fleeing unarmed men. Granted they were burglars, and they deserved to be punished. However if the story I heard is accurate, I think the old guy used excessive force, and probably should face some type of penalty.
So like I said, I might be more moderate than I think I am, and to some here that comes across as me being a gun grabbing liberal.
You don't sound like a fanatic to me, but some on this board do. Even if they are not advocating SAM ownership, they attack anyone who is not 100% in lock step with their thinking. While that may not make them a fanatic, they certainly are on the fringe when they cant even recognize the difference between a liberal gun grabbing Brady bunch person and a moderate pro 2nd amendment person.
Aguila Blanca
Member
If you agree with the lawmakers decision, why aren't you willing to allow others to live by it? You live in Florida. You must know that Florida's concealed carry laws were enacted long after Disney World was built. Florida law prohibits carry in schools ... it does NOT prohibit carry in amusement parks. But you make it sound as if the prohibition on school carry also applies to amusement parks.Vector I said:
Not so.
Winchester 73
member
Aguila Blanca,
So true.
Disney World -opened 1971
Florida CCW Firearms Act- enacted 1987
So true.
Disney World -opened 1971
Florida CCW Firearms Act- enacted 1987
Sir Aardvark
Member
I briefly read through all the posts and did not see this mentioned:
DisneyLAND is in California
DisneyWORLD is in Florida.
The Thread states "Woman arrested in Disney Land..."
She was arrested in DisneyWORLD, not DisneyLAND.
There is a difference.
If you have a California CCW and you carry in Disneyland you cannot be arrested.
California does not have any laws that state that you cannot CCW in Theme Parks... Florida might, but California doesn't.
They might hassle you for a couple of hours and ban you from ever returning to Disneyland again, but it is not illegal to CCW in Disneyland.
Now, if you didn't have a permit, that would be a different story.
Just thought I'd clear this up.
DisneyLAND is in California
DisneyWORLD is in Florida.
The Thread states "Woman arrested in Disney Land..."
She was arrested in DisneyWORLD, not DisneyLAND.
There is a difference.
If you have a California CCW and you carry in Disneyland you cannot be arrested.
California does not have any laws that state that you cannot CCW in Theme Parks... Florida might, but California doesn't.
They might hassle you for a couple of hours and ban you from ever returning to Disneyland again, but it is not illegal to CCW in Disneyland.
Now, if you didn't have a permit, that would be a different story.
Just thought I'd clear this up.
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