Wood and Blued Steel 9mm Carbine? - Henry Homesteader

[Bwana John]

 

[DesertFox]

https://www.tnwfirearms.com/product-p/asrx-cplt-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx.htm

Have this in 10mm, easy to get multi-caliber setups.

Have a Camp 9 but if I'm doing PCC 9mm, it will be with the MP5. Delayed roller lock sweetness wins according to 9 out of 10 dentists...

 

[halfmoonclip]

Honest Outlaw is not a huge fan of the roller locked PCCs, on reliability issues. Had an MPX, and mine was decidedly iffy on that score, even after a trip to the mothership. Never thought the recoil was that much milder than the blowback guns. The magazines were stupid expensive.
I did shoot an MP5, an eon ago, and really wish I'd bought it...be worth a pile now. What a bullet hose.
For the money involved, give me a Scorpion; mine has been as reliable as gravity, and the recoil isn't a problem.
So ya' know, they come with good aperture sights, but it is currently wearing a quick detach red dot as well.
Moon

 

[Capybara]

Am I the only one who finds humor in that every single thread about any PCC on any board has numerous complaints that a 9mm straight blowback has "too much recoil, can be a bit jarring to shoot, makes follow up strings getting back on target more difficult", yet you read on,
and then every other post is "Wish they made it in .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 5.7mm, 10mm, insert any non-9mm straight wall pistol cartridge here, etc."?

I had an Uzi carbine and if you watch the action in slow motion, that is one heavy bolt, it throws the sight picture way off with every shot. Not as important for an SMG/bullet hose but for a semi auto version, that is most people's issue with the Uzi, straight blowback with a heavy bolt. That's why the H&K MP5 took over the SMG mantle from the Uzi, delayed roller blowback, makes the gun shoot so much smoother and so much easier to stay on target.

So wouldn't logic dictate that increasing the PSI, size of projectile and powder burn volume on a straight blowback cartridge mechanism would only amplify the undesirable properties of straight blowback design, cheek slap, rougher, more prominent recoil? From an engineering and design standpoint, it would make a lot more sense to have to completely redesign the firearm design in question to utilize a roller delayed blowback or other type of action to mitigate these negative properties, also with the undesired effect of greater weight, cost, ammo cost, along with scarcer ammo availability compared to 9mm? All of these factors would make PCCs in these bigger calibers probably sell a far fewer units than the run of the mill straight blowback 9mm PCC for the manufacturer.

I know Hi Point has been selling the hell out the 10mm PCC they make so there is obviously some market demand for this but when one takes a $679 Ruger PC Carbine in 9mm, effectively has to redesign it to accomodate say, 10mm, does it make sense for Ruger to produce it? Does anyone in this thread have the 10mm Hi Point or has shot one? What is the recoil like? Not that it is punishing to your shoulder obviously but does it knock your sight picture way off each round? Henry, Ruger or Smith & Wesson would likely have to charge a little more for it if they just upsized the 9mm version, or they could have to charge a lot more for it if they changed the design to roller delayed blowback, beefier receiver, heavier weight, etc. If the PC Carbine is $679 msrp for the basic model in 9mm, would 10mm fans buy it in 10mm if it was $999 instead in 10mm? $899? Would they only buy it if it was the same $679? I don't really get shooting 10mm at .45 per round when you can shoot .223 out of an AR for the same cost per round?

To me, 9mm is the perfect PCC cartridge. The most popular round in the world, easy availability, low cost, better ballistics out of a 16" barrel than your pistol would ever have, cheap enough to plink a few hundred rounds in a session. Plinking 300 rounds of 10mm, if you don't reload, you are talking $135 just for ammo. Not plinking territory for me, but I'm not wealthy. I guess if your main concerns are hunting or HD, you don't need to shoot that many rounds but in my mind, there are much better hunting and HD guns than PCCs.

 

[Capybara]

I'm pretty sure that an Oly Oak stock for Ruger PC is way better than anything Henry or Ruger would ever put on their guns. But from the factory - lol nope. Even KelTec M43 never happened, and they literally teased it.

Personally though, I would be quite happy with a quality laminate. I have a laminate stock on my Tikka and it's very nice. Also, it is not afraid of moisture. But laminate is not Henry thing. They only do plastic and wood.

Those are interesting stocks, the Olyoaks. But at $500, you are taking a $679 Ruger PC Carbine and turning it into a $1,200 mutant (wouldn't it still have the black plastic foreend?) I don't get it?

 

[zaitcev]

Am I the only one who finds humor in that every single thread about any PCC on any board has numerous complaints that a 9mm straight blowback has "too much recoil, can be a bit jarring to shoot, makes follow up strings getting back on target more difficult", yet you read on, and then every other post is "Wish they made it in .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 5.7mm, 10mm, insert any non-9mm straight wall pistol cartridge here, etc."?

Are you sure about including 5.7 in that list? It has less recoil than 9mm.

 

[Capybara]

Are you sure about including 5.7 in that list? It has less recoil than 9mm.

True, I just lumped that in there as a cartridge that is often whined about manufacturers not making their PCCs in. It does operate though at
50,000 PSI versus a mere 34,000 PSI for 9mm. I think at least some firearms engineers would want to make a chamber and possibly the entire
receiver at a different, possibly larger and definitely more costly specification to contain an endless chain of 50,000 PSI explosions versus 34,000 PSI explosions?

In other words, I doubt if the 9mm rest of the firearm could simnply be used for a 5.7 version with a new chamber, but I'm not a firearms engineer but I am a reloader and that's a pretty significant difference in chamber and breech pressure.

 

[HC_Jack]

Nice effort by Henry. Will be on the lookout for one of these.

 

[P89DCSS]

Not a good sign, Honest Outlaw had issues with his Homesteader:

 

[chicharrones]

Not a good sign, Honest Outlaw had issues with his Homesteader:

So, get the Glock mag version. Check.

 

[NuclearMeltdown]

I wonder how wide the receiver is. Maybe it could be drilled and tapped for one of these!

 

[1KPerDay]

So, get the Glock mag version. Check.

Looked to me like primarily extraction/ejection issues.

 

[chicharrones]

Looked to me like primarily extraction/ejection issues.

I saw extra rounds come out of the magazine when he manually cleared an empty. As if the magazine feed lips weren’t holding the ammo down.

of course, I was watching from my small phone screen not a laptop screen. So I may have seen it incorrectly.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

If Henry brought one out in .45 Colt’s Automatic designed to use magazines from the Model 1911 service pistol then they’d really have something.

 

[1KPerDay]

I saw extra rounds come out of the magazine when he manually cleared an empty. As if the magazine feed lips weren’t holding the ammo down.

of course, I was watching from my small phone screen not a laptop screen. So I may have seen it incorrectly.

Certainly the mags were likely a factor.

 

[adcoch1]

If Henry brought one out in .45 Colt’s Automatic designed to use magazines from the Model 1911 service pistol then they’d really have something.

Styled like a mini BAR in 45acp would be perfect.

 

[Gordon]

Since mine is now legally an SBR with it's folding brace, I guess this is a PCC. There is some bolt bounce that does affect quick splits, but the dead blow tech bolt on the Ruger goes a ways to control it. With a folding stock , its ability to take all Glock common 9mm mags from G26 thru 33 rounds or even 50 round Korean drums that work pretty good , I am impressed ! I leave an Ecco machine Canine suppressor screwed on it, it is so easy to pull the barrel assy.:
Here is mine ! when I first got it. I replace the Aimpoint Patrol M2 with a Vortex Spitfire Prism sight on a slightly lower mount. I wanted an etched reticule as I don't run BUIS and I really like the sight picture now to 100 yards . I took off the hand stop and put on a Olight Baldor Light/laser instead . I was running a Sig folding brace , I will now modify that by pinning the swiveling brace part with a piece of hard rubber for a butt plate . The Sig folding Picatinny stock is well built and cost $150
not mine but close:

 

[zaitcev]

... I was running a Sig folding brace ...

What is the point of that infodump? How is it linked to Henry Homesteader?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Am I the only one who finds humor in that every single thread about any PCC on any board has numerous complaints that a 9mm straight blowback has "too much recoil, can be a bit jarring to shoot, makes follow up strings getting back on target more difficult", yet you read on, and then every other post is "Wish they made it in .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 5.7mm, 10mm, insert any non-9mm straight wall pistol cartridge here, etc."? ....

I wish they made a Thompson carbine using the original Blish "lock" in calibers like .30 Carbine or .45 Winchester because
(a) the Blish Lock principle of adhesion of inclined surfaces under those pressures might actually work, and
(b) my Auto Ordnance TM1 11 pound blowback operated carbine in .45 ACP is wimpy power for that much weight.

 

[Capybara]

I wish they made a Thompson carbine using the original Blish "lock" in calibers like .30 Carbine or .45 Winchester because
(a) the Blish Lock principle of adhesion of inclined surfaces under those pressures might actually work, and
(b) my Auto Ordnance TM1 11 pound blowback operated carbine in .45 ACP is wimpy power for that much weight.

That was the same issue I had with my Uzi carbine. It weighed nearly 13lbs and only shot a measly 9mm round. I'll have to look up
Blish "lock" design, I have never heard of that type of action.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The Blish Lock was used in the Original 1921 Thompson, the 1928 revised model adopted by the US military, and the experimental 1923 Thompson in .45 Remington/Thompson.

 

[CO_Patriot2004]

To me the Homesteader is an answer looking for a question. I too wish that you could actually handle their products at the LGS. There are much better options for a PC carbine/rifle, but if you can afford it, rock on!

 

[zaitcev]

Certainly the mags were likely a factor.

Speaking of magazines... I only ever used Beretta magazines in my Homesteader and it seems to work okay, although my tests were limited to an indoor range thus far.

 

[wesmonster]

Ok, love the idea but why would you pay for such nice walnut then fuglify the gun with a polymer mag?
Or at least make some kind of 'beauty' sleeve for the pistol mags.

I'm also curious to see how different mag versions compare in terms of reliability. Once had a PAK9 9mm AK pistol, was 100% reliable with Beretta mags but swapping in the Glock adaptor put the feed angle noticeably higher and occasionally rounds would catch on the top of the chamber.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

Speaking of magazines... I only ever used Beretta magazines in my Homesteader and it seems to work okay, although my tests were limited to an indoor range thus far.

View attachment 1184053

I had no idea that they had an adapter for Beretta 92 mags