Wooden bullet? Brass tapered case, what is this? 44 WCF

[ACES&8S]

View attachment 793405 View attachment 793405
I have a small cartridge collection including this one which looks like & feels like a wooden
projectile, the one on the right is a 44 Mag for comparison.
The one in question , on the left , is stamped 44 WCF REM-UMC & is obviously in factory
condition. I bet lots of you probably know the caliber but can anyone confirm it is been built
with wooden projectiles at any time? Or know why it is made of wood? I can only guess.
It is a tapered case down to the projectile being .414"
To be honest I am just guessing it is a revolver cartridge, I don't know this one.
It sure seems like WCF is familiar, of course umc is.
Sorry bout the blurred stamp pic.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Error, can't see pictures.

 

[Monac]

Maybe it is a shot cartridge?. There used to be guns like "Marble's Game Getter" that were particularly made for .44-40 shot cartridges, and of course they could be used in .44-40 pistols if desired. IDK about using them in tubular magazine lever action rifles. Perhaps that is why they used wood instead of paper or the cardboard for the shot capsule. How heavy does the cartridge feel? Does it feel like nothing but wood, or could it be shot inside?

If it is plain wood, then I have no clue. My guess would be a blank meant to work in a lever action rifle, but that may not make any sense.

 

[ACES&8S]

I can now see DOUBLE pics of each image in the thread after reinstating the pics, it should be same for you guys.
Can't you see a, now, 4 full size images?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

44 Winchester Center Fire (44WCF), also known as 44-40 (44 caliber, 40 grains of Black Powder)

Originally developed in 1873 for the Winchester Model 1873 rifle. Short enough to be chambered in a revolver. In 1878 Colt chambered the Single Action Army for 44-40.

The wooden 'bullet' is actually a wooden shot carrier. Hollow, with a small charge of lead shot inside.

A few 44 caliber cartridges. Left to right, 44 Magnum, 44 Special, 44 Russian, 44-40, and 38-40. 38-40 is really just the 44-40 necked down to .401 diameter.






Actual bullet diameter of 44-40 was .427 in the 19th Century, usually .429 today.

 

[Hondo 60]

44 WCF REM-UMC

The caliber is 44 Winchester Center Fire (WCF) made by Remington - Union Metallic Cartridge Corp (REM-UMC)

The wooden 'bullet' is actually a wooden shot carrier. Hollow, with a small charge of lead shot inside.

Never heard of that. That's very interesting.
I guess I need to read more gun history.

 

[ACES&8S]

There is almost no weight forward to the cartridge, like it I empty or just light solid wood.
Thanks for the info so far.
I -can't- bring myself to pull the bullet of course.

 

[ACES&8S]

Can you see this pic?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I can see all the photos.

 

[gotboostvr]

Your pictures are coming through now.

I'd guess it's some form of a "forager" round. Something similar was issued in 45-70 in days of yore.

It's possible it's a handload, or third party outfit the equivalent of Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon recreating the same idea of the 45-70 in 44.

I'd be half-tempted to open it up myself just to see.

 

[sgt127]

Early “less than lethal” round? All I’ve got.

 

[CapnMac]

The Europeans often used wooden bullets for gallery training.

 

[Mizar]

Blank firing rounds with hollow wooden bullets were widely used in European armies as training rounds up to the WWII and even shortly after. .44 WCF with wooden bullets were usually shot cartridges, made by several US companies. By the way, the most widespread gallery guns in Europe for more that 100 years were chambered for 6mm Flobert cartridge (.22 CB). I have not seen an European gallery gun round with wooden bullet of any caliber, only military rifle/MG rounds - not that I think that they weren't any, just that they were not widespread.

 

[SharpDog]

Makes perfect sense: .44 Wooden Carpenter's Friend

 

[ACES&8S]

I can tell there is no lead shot in the front or even shifting around in the case.
It is old for sure, just like some of you say.
What set me back to begin with is that I never knew there was such a thing as a wooden bullets.
Not until you guys just told me.
I am impressed with how smooth & perfectly shaped the bullet is.
It is definitely a hardwood.
Thanks for all the info fellows!

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I would guess a training round.

MAC on youtube did a video recently on Arisaka rifles that "blow up", which were smooth bore training rifles for school kids that shot wooden low powered bullets similar to a BB gun.

I'd bet that a training round is a possibility... OR HUNTING VAMPIRES

 

[entropy]

An early version of the Hollywood "5 in 1" blank?

 

[Monac]

I knew about wooden bullets because of 6.5mm Swedish Mausers. They are all threaded at the muzzle, and I learned that was for a training device that would shred wooden bullets into relatively harmless fragments (IIRC). OTOH, except maybe for Turkey, I have not heard of military use of .44-40.

 

[kBob]

Only the later Swedes are threaded. The Blank Firing attachment is a vented can that the wooden bullet smashes against the inside of and the can has holes in the side for the gas and debris to escape.

I think Monac has us pointed in the right direction towards the Marble Game Getter. As a youth I thought that one a friend had with holster, was uber neat.....but not having a C&R ticket, its short barrels kept it from me.

-kBob

 

[Rollie]

Back in the 50's, I knew a man that had a Marble Game Getter, he had loaded rounds just like the O.P.'s that he said were shot, he also had some with an extended paper wrapper similar to the old T/C shot rounds that he said were also loaded with shot, but were for the Game Getter only, as they wouldn't chamber in a revolver, i.e., too long. He said the wood ones would chamber in most any 44-40.

 

[Monac]

Only the later Swedes are threaded. The Blank Firing attachment is a vented can that the wooden bullet smashes against the inside of and the can has holes in the side for the gas and debris to escape.-kBob

Thanks, kBob! Although we are getting a bit far afield for a pistol forum, this thread has a picture of the Swedish device itself:

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=9893

 

[H&R Glock]

Training rounds for sure or they could be used to hunt wood ducks.. These are still plenty dangerous at close range.

 

[Speedo66]

The old boxes of Winchester cartridges had it as Winchester Central Fire, rather than center fire.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The old boxes of Winchester cartridges had it as Winchester Central Fire, rather than center fire.

Not really. You are misinterpreting what that box is telling you. The 'central fire' marking on that box means the cartridges use center fire primers, as opposed to rimfire. It is not calling the cartridges out as 44 Winchester Central Fire.That box is telling you the name of the cartridges inside are Winchester 1873, which is what is printed on the picture of the cartridge itself. That is because originally, the Winchester Model 1873 was only chambered for 44 WCF (44-40) so calling the cartridges Winchester 1873 told the buyer everything he needed to know.

I took this photo in a hurry, and the lighting is not so good, but hopefully you can read what the boxes say. The green box of 38 S&W at the upper left is simply stating the cartridges have centerfire primers. 38 S&W was not part of the Winchester WCF family of cartridges. The yellow box of 38 S&W next to it is calling the priming Central Fire. Simply defining that the cartridges are not rimfire. Don't forget, there used to be lots more rimfire cartridges than there are today. Such as the boxes of 32 and 38 rimfire cartridges in this photo.







Here are a few other boxes of the same cartridge. What the boxes are telling you is there are 50 44 caliber cartridges inside, and they have solid heads (not hollow points) and they use center fire primers.









I have also seen 44-40 marked as 44 Winchester Centre Fire.

Cartridge collecting can be pretty fascinating stuff all by itself.




The way the cartridge was called out on the guns differed too.

Originally, there was no caliber marking at all on the Winchester Model 1873, because originally they were only made for 44 WCF (44-40).

Later, once the 38-40 came along, the caliber was marked on the bottom of the carrier. This Model 1873 Winchester was made in 1886. The '38 CAL' marking on the bottom of the carrier means it is chambered for 38 WCF (38-40)






Later Winchester was pretty standard the way they marked caliber. Usually with the WCF marking.








I could swear I had a photo from the redundancy department of redundancy somewhere that showed a Winchester marked 44-40 WCF,but I can't find right now.




This old Marlin is simply marked 44W.No WCF, or powder charge, just 44W. Yes, it is a 44-40, the first 44-40 rifle I ever bought.






Merwin Hulbert marked their 44-40 revolvers Calibre Winchester 1873, again because that was the cartridge the first Model 1873 rifles were chambered for.






Bottom line: There are no hard and fast rules for this stuff. It depends on when you are talking about, and a lot of other stuff.

 

[Speedo66]

Thanks, that certainly cleared that up. Never dawned on me that central fire meant the difference between center and rimfire, I guess because generally the only rimfires we deal with today are .22's, so no specification necessary.