kmw1954
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Nice subject. I've only just begun myself. So far have only used 1 powder, 3 different bullets. Two 55gr and a 62gr. Haven't even started to fool with seating depth.
Working Up a 223 Load. When to Stop?
- Thread starter G. Freeman
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kalielkslayer
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Everything you said!
I have several guns that shoot way better than me. Using a lead sled for range work has helped, some days it’s helped amazingly. Other days (too much coffee? not enough sleep? mind isn’t right? slight breeze gets into my head at long range?) I’m pretty much just burning ammo.
And like was mentioned, sending $1.00 a bullet Barnes down range and not getting much data for it can be frustrating.
JFrank
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Wind Flags can reduce group size.......
2ndtimer
Member
The Speer Hotcor are decent bullets for the price, but the cores are NOT bonded to the jacket, unless it is a Gold Dot bullet. The Hot Cor simply refers to molten lead being poured into the jacket rather than inserting a cold lead wire core.
https://www.speer.com/bullets/rifle_bullets/hot-cor_rifle_bullet/19-1217.html
It all depends on what the rifle will be used for.
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'When I shot Service Rifle competition, my loads were tailored to my competition rifle.
My "pray and spray" AR-15's, loads are not tailored as much if the accuracy is reasonable. Once I get to that point, I stop developing the loads.
My 300 BO loads seem, to work well in several rifles. No sense spending lots of time improving accuracy over longer ranges. Trajectory becomes rainbow much past 100 yards. I like 300 BO for 100 yards max or so anyway. It is good for my small horse farm.
I'm playing with a couple different cartridges in an AR-15 platform loosely based on the 6.8 SPC case. Ultimately, I expect better groups with these cartridges.
I shoot prairie dogs with 204 Ruger rifles, an AR-15 and a Savage Model 12. I have a compromise load that works well in both rifles so that I do not need to carry specific ammunition for each into the field.
'
'When I shot Service Rifle competition, my loads were tailored to my competition rifle.
My "pray and spray" AR-15's, loads are not tailored as much if the accuracy is reasonable. Once I get to that point, I stop developing the loads.
My 300 BO loads seem, to work well in several rifles. No sense spending lots of time improving accuracy over longer ranges. Trajectory becomes rainbow much past 100 yards. I like 300 BO for 100 yards max or so anyway. It is good for my small horse farm.
I'm playing with a couple different cartridges in an AR-15 platform loosely based on the 6.8 SPC case. Ultimately, I expect better groups with these cartridges.
I shoot prairie dogs with 204 Ruger rifles, an AR-15 and a Savage Model 12. I have a compromise load that works well in both rifles so that I do not need to carry specific ammunition for each into the field.
Stevenvalleyky
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With some powders and bullet combinations, compressed loads are very accurate. When I run into those loads that seem impossible because of case space, I cover the neck to prevent spillage and vibrate the bottom of the case to settle the powder. You would be surprised how much space you can sometimes gain with a little vibration.
There's no definitive answer to this we can give you - only you have the answers to what it is you are looking for when it comes to load development!
#1 - stop second guessing yourself.
#2 - There's a lot more than load development going on at any given time
I've gone out to shoot test strings only to repeat previous tests as a control, to find out they were much worse. At the end of a frustrating head scratching day, I figured out that one of the bolts on my scope mount had loosened. I had no idea when this started, or even what day it started on, so it set me back to zero basically on load development for that rifle. (After that I started using loctite 222 on everything that can potentially come loose).
Parallax, mechanical issues, and more can all contribute to any sort of non-repeatable groups.
People who shoot 3 group strings during development may have statistically unrepeatable results, won't reliably catch your extremes. I always loaded and shot a minimum of 5 round strings during load development and 10 round strings for confirmation of the best, the next time out (both as a safeguard against equipment and operator error, and as a new baseline).
Don't forget a fouling shot or two, before starting again for recorded results.
To go back to the main point though, only you can decide when enough is enough. For semiauto rifles I tend to go for "reliability and acceptable accuracy" and not push it too far. For long range f-class bolt action I chased every weight and powder combination imaginable. I allocated a % of the current barrel life for load development, since I burned out my last barrel mainly testing loads. (The rifle in question was 300 win mag, so there is a limit to how many rounds you can fire before throat erosion ends it.)
The craziest story though; the very first load I tried ended up being the most accurate, and reliably so. It was the 220 grain matchking starting load out of the sierra book for that powder. I tested close to 500 rounds (100 different loads) of different bullet weights, powders, OAL, and that *very first* batch of 5 rounds I fired ended up being the best load of all. Everything ended up being almost a complete waste of time, since I'd stumbled on what the barrel likes right out of the gate.
I say almost a complete waste; because I learned a lot and got a lot of practice with the rifle along the way, even if none of the testing revealed an "even better" load.
That first string of 5 fired was 0.26 MOA and I never was able to better that result. That ended up being the load I used on matches after I called development done. It consistently got me high master scores in F-Class, every time.
In hindsight, 0.26MOA should have signaled an end to load development immediately; it was well within my desired goal (very much so!) - but I just had to chase that rabbit all the way down the hole!
Sometimes that's just in our nature, and you can't make a hunting dog not want to hunt.
Don't waste time chasing a 55gr load if you found a 69 gr load that works well. There's just no point to it. You already have what you are looking for if it works good.
1 MOA out of a semiauto is plenty good for what it needs to do. It's not like you're going to shoot benchrest with it! Call it a day and spend that money and time practicing practical shooting positions instead of data crunching on a bench!
NMexJim
Member
Have you been keeping track of your velocity spread? ES? What sort of spreads are you seeing?
NMexJim
Member
As Trent says, you can only do so much with a semi-auto and still get reliable feed. If you’re not having feed trouble with .002 shoulder set-back, then it wouldn’t hurt to look a little closer. Obviously, you’ve found a bullet in the 69 gr, but I’m curious about velocities in the 55 gr if you have a couple of strings. If you have a large spread, then you might be able to improve some, but more so for >100 yards.
Of course, all the possibles issues that Trent mentioned have a huge impact, That does look like a solid set-up though including the rests. I would think you’d be able to hold tight.
What trigger pull? And, what power, out of curiosity, is the scope?
Of course, all the possibles issues that Trent mentioned have a huge impact, That does look like a solid set-up though including the rests. I would think you’d be able to hold tight.
What trigger pull? And, what power, out of curiosity, is the scope?
NMexJim
Member
https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-sport-cantilever-1-inch-mount.html?vx_mount_option=1194
Here’s the cantilevered mount I use. Maybe heavier?
Here’s the cantilevered mount I use. Maybe heavier?
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