Would Nationwide reciprocity add a database

[BSA1]

The Federal Government knows far, far more about you then most of you can possibly believe.

For example USPS (Post Office) claims they photograph every piece of mail they handle. So they know every gun magazine, flyers, mail from gun organizations such as NRA and packages you receive.

Or how about purchases of hunting and fishing licenses? How is this information shared with the Feds? It is because it is used to determine how much federal funding dollars the State gets.

I can tell you from over two decades working for a large State agency that the laws as we interpret one way are meaningless if a agency wants to implement a policy. The only recourse is a expensive, long court fight taking many years. And you are going up against the deep pockets of the Federal Government who is spending your tax dollars to fight the case.

The information that is called in for background checks is suppose to be deleted I believe after 24 hours and not shared with other agencies. Now who really believes that a Justice Department and FBI full of Obama appointees and career employees that are only concerned about their retirement checks are going to allow that to happen when it is only of time before the Democrats are back in power? (Well technically it is deleted off of that particular computer but it's transferred to another computer system for auditing purposes. Again just twisting words to circumvent letter of the law).

Computer security cannot be trusted.

Besides I don't care what guns you own. All I need to know is that you are a gun owner which is confirmed by the background check. The 4473 just makes it a little more easier to target specific guns.

Oh poo! It's Christmas. I'll worry about such things next year. They will still be around.

 

[Theohazard]

However, when an FFL dealer closes, all of the 4473s they have must be sent to the BATF for "storage". Now I suppose that all of these old 4473s are just sitting in boxes in some warehouse, collecting dust but would anyone be surprised if they were being scanned and "stored" somewhere?

It’s possible, but I doubt it. That’s an awful lot of 4473s. And most are probably handwritten, and lots of gun purchasers and FFL employees have pretty bad handwriting. Considering it can be hard for a human to read some of those, I doubt scanners exist that can read handwriting better than a human can.

And even if that good a scanner did exist, it would still take a tremendous amount of manpower to scan all those 4473s and then keep scanning all the new ones that arrive. And it would have to be done in secret considering it’s probably illegal under the 1986 FOPA.

Also, don’t forget that by the time a shop closes, a lot of that 4473 info is way out of date. Think of how many guns some people sell, trade, and gift throughout the years.

So I doubt that the ATF would devote so much effort and take such a big risk to compile an illegal database of gun ownership, especially considering it would be only a very limited, partial database and it would consist of information that might be many years out of date. But it’s always possible.

 

[CoalTrain49]

As it stands right now the answer to your question is no.

This system of "archiving" records isn't what I would call a database.
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2016/3/24/where-the-atf-scans-gun-sales-records/

I suspect the FBI has access to a states permit records but not all states have any firearms information related to permits. My state records permits, serial numbers and names on the same form (not 4473) and it goes into a database.

The FBI can get whatever records your state keeps so there really isn't a reason for a nat'l database.

I have some experience with databases and government agencies. They are very expensive to maintain. It's much less expensive for the fed to let the states maintain the data and ask for it when they need it.

 

[Sistema1927]

I retired after many years of system analysis and database design. My experience was that government agencies have an appalling record when it comes to data integrity and accuracy. The larger the amount of data the worse it gets.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I retired after many years of system analysis and database design. My experience was that government agencies have an appalling record when it comes to data integrity and accuracy. The larger the amount of data the worse it gets.

That was my experience also. Our servers were always being attacked and had to be shut down, sometimes for days. All of the good IT people were working for private companies. A gov't agency was the last place they wanted to work.

 

[SteveChuck]

With court orders any state or department can get any information they want.

Not in NC. For a court order, it has to be linked directly to a valid Law Enforcement criminal investigation. They passed that in response to those vicious rubes (Newspaper jerks) who published names etc..in NY and Conn. after the Sandy Hook shootings. NC decided in 2013 that they needed to do a much better job of protecting the confidentiality of CCH license holders - not just from the press but from those offering "Insurance policies" etc, anti-gun groups and Political Parties. So far, I have not heard to this point any individuals or groups that have filed any grievances against the state for violating that statute - even with this liberal puke anti-gun fool of a governor in office, Roy Cooper. A number of States are different for their individual State Licensees and, from what I understand, another State, in order to enter into a Reciprocity agreement (NC has Reciprocity with I believe 35 other states) that state has to abide by NC's statutes regarding privacy. I know that times since 2013 when I have been pulled over for a traffic violation, informed the LEO of the state I was in, that I was a NC CCH license holder, he wanted to see the license and took it back to check on validity along with my DL and Registration. That means he did NOT have access to State Data base like our NC State LEOs do. The NC LEOs rarely ask for the CCH license after you inform them of your license and whether you are carrying concealed or not - so they must have access through their computers when checking on outstanding warrants. Anyway - sorry to ramble on, but, I'd like to think that IF this nationwide reciprocity bill does pass (a miracle if it clears the Senate) - they would allow for the States to work it out and NOT try some sort of national database.

 

[GarySTL]

I agree with everything you just said. The 4473 system, as set up now, cannot provide an accurate and reliable database today.
However, when an FFL dealer closes, all of the 4473s they have must be sent to the BATF for "storage". Now I suppose that all of these old 4473s are just sitting in boxes in some warehouse, collecting dust but would anyone be surprised if they were being scanned and "stored" somewhere?

Those 4473s are sitting in the warehouse next to the "Ark of the Covenant". Really, I saw it in a movie!