Would these shotgun "facts" be true?

[Hokkmike]

I am looking to add the last gun to my arsenal....a shot gun.

Here's the why. I have a six shooter and a lever action rifle so I thought I'd add a western styled shotgun to complete the mix. I occasionally shoot at the range and once or twice a year hunt.

Can I make these following assumptions?
1. SXS have more of kick than all but single barrels.
2. 20 gauge shells would be cheaper and have less felt recoil than a 12.
3. Full and modified would be the best choke choices for all purpose application.
4. The BEST all around gauge would be 12.

Thanks for any and all your opinions. As I posted here earlier I was thinking of a CZ hammered gun. It is all opened to debate. In the gun world, shotguns are my blindspot.

 

[Jim Watson]

1. Yes, because they are generally lighter in weight and have no gas system as a cushion.
2. No, shells are little if any cheaper and since a 20 ga gun is usually lighter than a 12, recoil is not much different.
3. Interchangeable screw chokes are now the default on all but the cheapest shotguns.
4. Yup. In the good old days, you could hardly sell anything else in England, they had everything from the 2" 12 ga for fast handling in "rough shooting" instead of our typical 20 or 28 to heavy pigeon and waterfowl guns.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

1. Yes, because they are generally lighter in weight and have no gas system as a cushion.
2. No, shells are little if any cheaper and since a 20 ga gun is usually lighter than a 12, recoil is not much different.
3. Interchangeable screw chokes are now the default on all but the cheapest shotguns.
4. Yup. In the good old days, you could hardly sell anything else in England, they had everything from the 2" 12 ga for fast handling in "rough shooting" instead of our typical 20 or 28 to heavy pigeon and waterfowl guns.

Nailed it

 

[I6turbo]

Edit: pretty much the same as Jim Watson said, but here are my thoughts based upon my years of shotgunning and loading my own for both gauges.

1. Generally speaking, the weight of the gun vs. the payload/muzzle velocity of the round determines recoil. Felt, or perceived recoil can be impacted quite a bit by the fit of a shotgun, and of course a semi-auto (assuming you've shot those) will "soak up" recoil and soften it compared to a fixed-breech gun like the SxS.
2. Don't expect to buy 20 gauge for less than 12. A 12 gauge, shooting the same shot charge at the same muzzle velocity will recoil the same as the 20. Since 12 gauge guns are often heavier than the corresponding 20, it may have less felt recoil. Typical (but not all) 12 gauge loads tend to carry around an eighth to a quarter ounce more shot at about the same muzzle velocity, so those rounds will recoil more when fired from guns of the same weight.
3. Those would probably be my choices in fixed choke if I'm buying factory shells, but you might want to consider what you'll be doing with the gun. And if you reload and are willing to work up loads with different wads, shot charges, muzzle velocities, you can greatly impact the gun's patterns. If I'm rolling my own, I'd generally rather have I/C and Modified chokes.
4. Yes, it's hard to make much of a case for other rounds based purely on the round itself. However, there is also the GUN to consider. The one big consideration for me in a SxS is that I REALLY prefer the smaller scale of a 20 gauge for most uses, so there's that quandry.

 

[red rick]

I would disagree with 20ga shells costing less and the 20ga having less felt recoil . The 20ga is going to weigh less than a 12ga of the same shotgun most likely . Weight helps soak up recoil . What I have found is , if I am hunting I don’t notice the recoil . When I target shoot I feel it more . I shot a deer last Thursday , firing 3 1/2” 00BK . I fired 3 shots and never felt it , 2 quick shots and a follow up shot .

I like the way a 20ga SXS handles better than a 12ga . For what you are using it for I would choose a 20ga .

 

[N555]

20ga shells are never cheaper. 12ga is as cheap as its going to get.
You may want full, modified and improved cylinder chokes and those should cover everything.

 

[Rex in OTZ]

Buy something that can handle steel shot.

 

[nugi]

(2) - My experience comparing a youth 20ga and a full size 12ga with corresponding target ammo was that the 20 had a lot less kick. In terms of price if anything 12 is the same or cheaper with a lot more availability and diversity.

 

[jmr40]

#1 Recoil is a factor of 4 things

Firearm weight
Weight of the projectile
Velocity of the projectile
Weight of the powder charge.

If you choose a lightweight SXS it may recoil more. Gas operated guns have the same recoil, but the recoil is spread out over more time. It FEELS like it recoils less. A recoil pad does the same thing. With a fixed breach shotgun and no recoil pad all of the recoil hits you at once. There is only a tiny fraction of a second more time involved with semi-autos and with recoil pads, but it does make a difference in how it feels.

There is a very wide range of shells for shotguns. In 12 ga you can get shells with 7/8 oz of shot up to 2 1/2 oz. Velocity is all over the place too. Recoil is more dependent on the shells you use.

#2 Since 12 ga is more common the price is usually the same, often cheaper for 12. And 1 oz of shot from a 20 recoils exactly the same as 1 oz of shot from a 12. You can get shells for a 12 that hold more shot and if you choose those shells they recoil, but there is a lot of overlap.

Also consider that a 20 is about 1 full pound lighter than a 12. Even with a heavier shot load a 12 might recoil the same or less than a 20. You buy a 20 to get a lighter gun to carry around, not necessarily to reduce recoil. If you don't need shot charges over 1 1/4 oz 20 does the same thing as a 12. But if you need heavier loads you need a 12. Depends on what you will hunt.

#3 I've never used my full choke tubes and rarely my modified tubes. When turkey hunting I use an aftermarket extra full tube. For most everything else it is Improved Cylinder. IC gives patterns adequate for 30-35 yard shots on most game including waterfowl. I get more hits at Sporting Clays with IC than Modified.

Going to Modified adds 5-10 yards to that range, but I simply don't take shots of 40 yards with a shotgun. The wider pattern of IC improves my chances of a hit at ranges inside 30 yards. Getting hits at 40 yards are a low percentage shot anyway, at least for me. I'd rather improve my chances at the ranges where shots are more likely and simply pass on low percentage shots.

#4 I think 12 is the most versatile. You can shoot light loads and get 20 ga recoil and performance. But if you need more performance, you can get it with a 12. Ammo is easier to find.

On the other hand, 20's are lighter and easy to carry. And with modern shells 20's are capable for what most need.

 

[Barnfixer]

Important fact! 20ga shells don’t fill your pockets as full when shooting sporting clays or hunting. I like that!

 

[Remington1911]

Personally I think you are in the wheel house with your thinking.

I will add a few different things. Now I have never weighed them, perhaps I should....so this could be all way off base. I am sure someone will take issue with what I say and start cruising the internet and post up some numbers on weights.

I own the Browning A5 in 20 16 and 12. To me the guns feel about the same. The 16 and 20 feel the same weight, been since last summer that I had all three out but I want to say the 12 may weigh a little more but I don't think it is much. In the summer we have once a month the family out to the house, we cook burgers and shoot shotguns at clays. Everyone has a great time. And all kinds of guns come out. Great grandpa's side by side 16, and several single shots going down to 410. We shoot clays, targets and pellet rifles, everyone has great fun. My mother in law is a bit frail, so she shoots air rifles and air hand guns.....it really is a great deal of fun.

I can tell you that the brownings, all setup for light loads there is a difference in the felt recoil. Everyone agrees that the felt recoil is more with the single shot, side by sides and pumps, and everyone things the "softest" shooting are the gas guns like an 1100, SA-08 or tristar. The last three are all 20's and it is really up in the air. The old 1100 seems to be the softest and it is the most heavy, but the other two are not that different.

For your uses, the range will likely not matter, however if it is an indoor range some have rules around shotguns, so you might check that first. If you plan on hunting with it comes down to what you want to hunt. Some things lead is a big no-no. Other things not so much. If you do go to a gun that does not like steel shot it is not the end of the world. When you do hunt there are non lead options that MIGHT not hurt the gun, but check first. Those other options are going to be more expensive, but if you are shooting something like big geese you will want the added heft to those other "exotic" choices of shot.

I think I am safe in saying that 12 is the most popular here in the US, figure that is where you are. Before the past couple years I would have said you can always find it.....but live and learn.

IMHO they are not really all that fun shooting at stuff that does not move, they "kick" more and to me it becomes a bit of a bore. There is not a lot of shotgun games aside from SASS that shoot shotguns at things that don't move. But when you start hitting moving targets you find out that it is really HUGE FUN.

 

[entropy]

I am looking to add the last gun to my arsenal....a shot gun.

Here's the why. I have a six shooter and a lever action rifle so I thought I'd add a western styled shotgun to complete the mix. I occasionally shoot at the range and once or twice a year hunt.

Can I make these following assumptions?
1. SXS have more of kick than all but single barrels.
2. 20 gauge shells would be cheaper and have less felt recoil than a 12.
3. Full and modified would be the best choke choices for all purpose application.
4. The BEST all around gauge would be 12.

Thanks for any and all your opinions. As I posted here earlier I was thinking of a CZ hammered gun. It is all opened to debate. In the gun world, shotguns are my blindspot.

1. Not necessarily. There are many factors in recoil, particularly the 'felt recoil' part, which is subjective.

2. Not necessarily. Hot 20 ga. pheasant and duck loads make 12 ga. 1 oz. Trap loads seem rather tame.

3. Not necessarily. They would suck for grouse and woodcock, or Skeet, but be great for Late season pheasant or Trap.

4. This one is fairly close to true, again, application matters. I've shot woodcock with a 12 ga., but I'd have rather had a 20 or 28 gauge, both for the ease of carrying, and because the 12 is way more than needed for woodcock. Compares to using a .50 BMG for deer.

 

[12Bravo20]

1. Not necessarily. There are many factors in recoil, particularly the 'felt recoil' part, which is subjective.

2. Not necessarily. Hot 20 ga. pheasant and duck loads make 12 ga. 1 oz. Trap loads seem rather tame.

3. Not necessarily. They would suck for grouse and woodcock, or Skeet, but be great for Late season pheasant or Trap.

4. This one is fairly close to true, again, application matters. I've shot woodcock with a 12 ga., but I'd have rather had a 20 or 28 gauge, both for the ease of carrying, and because the 12 is way more than needed for woodcock. Compares to using a .50 BMG for deer.

I agree.


Here is my take:

1. recoil

With 20 gauges, it will depend on the size and weight of the shotgun. 20's made with the same size receivers as a 12 will have less felt recoil. 20's made with a smaller receiver can and will have more felt recoil. I had an old Marlin 20 gauge goose gun with a 30" or 32" barrel that kicked like a mule no matter what type of shell I used. I also have an old Savage/Stevens 20 gauge pump that kicks harder than any of my 12 gauges.

2. cost of shells

It is not always the size or amount of shot and powder that determines cost. One of the big cost factors is the amount of ammo manufacturers produce and sell. 28 Gaige and 410 are prime examples. Both use les shot and less powder. In theory they should be cheaper, but they are not. The reason is that less 28 gauge and 410 shells are made. Cost per unit is relative to volume of units produced/sold.

3 chokes

It really depends on what you are using the shotgun for and also the type of shot being used. Remember hat you should go with a more open choke when shooting steel shot versus shooting lead shot. I wouldn't want to shoot any steel duck/goose loads out of a full choke no matter what gauge of shotgun.

4. 12 gauge being the best

Well I am a bit different in that I prefer smaller gauges for small game hunting. So my opinion will be biased towards that fact. But yes for most people, a 12 gauge is the best all around gauge to have.

 

[Seedy Character]

Major factor in felt recoil is FIT. A shotgun that doesn't fit can be brutal.

Exposed hammer gun will greatly limit your choices.

Cost for similar shells is identical between 12 and 20. In today's market, 20s are approaching unobtanium. 28ga are easier to find, soft recoil and only slightly more expensive, though limited in variety.

New manufactured will almost all be 3" chambered and have choke tubes. A 3" 20ga will cover all but heavy load 12 ga. A 3" 12 ga will all the most versatility in shells.
My SxS has Imp Cyl, MOD, Full choke tube. I bought another Imp Cyl and never changed them.

My choice: 12ga, internal hammer, 3", Imp Cyl / Imp Cyl. But, don't overlook a 28ga.
I also have SxS 20ga and .410.

Find one like, that mounts good, feels right and enjoy it.

 

[d2wing]

For many years I hunted as much as I could for Pheasants and Grouse. I did have a 20 G SxS that I regret selling. Because I walked miles I like light guns. I also shot sporting clays in a league with my hunting guns. I have O/U's and semi autos in both 20 and 12. The O/U are much shorter, lighter generally and fast handling. The older I get the more I carry an O/U 20. If my shoulder is sore, I carry a semi-auto. If I think I am going to get lots of shooting I carry a 12. Cheap guns have failed me I don't use them.
Not much difference in recoil depending on loads used. Mostly high velocity steel fairly heavy loads. The 12-gauge loads are more powerful, but the increased recoil is offset by the weight difference. 20-gauge shells in any load are more expensive than 12s always and harder to find. The 12's are clearly more powerful and have better patterns and range. I prefer I/C and Modified with modern loads and steel which is required most places I hunt. Since you want a SxS and probably shooting target loads recoil is not a big issue. Th 20 is going to be lighter and nicer to carry for walking around, But for most purposes I would get a 12. You can use light loads.

 

[paul harm]

Can I make these following assumptions?
1. SXS have more of kick than all but single barrels. NO
2. 20 gauge shells would be cheaper and have less felt recoil than a 12. NO
3. Full and modified would be the best choke choices for all purpose application. NO
4. The BEST all around gauge would be 12. Maybe
#1 depends on the weight of the gun and how much DAC and DAH
#2 just finding 20ga shells can be a challenge. They're not cheaper.
#3 I have 12 old SxSs and have opened the chokes on most to light mod/light mod
#4 All my SxSs are 12ga except the one 410.
I reload so all I'm loading is 3/4oz 12ga loads for clay pigeon shooting. Less recoil and cheaper to reload a box. But with a 12ga a lot heavier load can be used than what you could use in a 20. If the gun comes with choke tubes you're all set. Nothing tighter than Mod for steel shot.

 

[kennedy]

the better answer to #4 is 16 ga, carries like a 20 hits like a 12

 

[hq]

the better answer to #4 is 16 ga, carries like a 20 hits like a 12

I kind-of like 16ga even though it still falls a bit short of 12ga, but the higher pitched report necessitates using hearing protection in upland bird hunts. Obviously it isn't a good idea to shoot without muffs or plugs but in forest environment standard pressure 12/70 isn't bad at all, 16/anything is. I really like my dad's old 16/70 O/U (he got it from his buddies for his 60th birthday in 1966), it's light and fast handling, he shot hundreds of grouse with it and at 6'5" he was just a bit taller than I am so the stock fits me great, but unfortunately I've given up on using it outside skeet/sporting/compak range.