Guillermo
member
Sure...why not?
Would you carry a customized gun for CCW
- Thread starter kd7nqb
- Start date
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Sure...why not?
A gun carried around can be lost, stolen, or damaged. It could be confiscated by police for some reason. There are plenty of reasons NOT to choose a real valuable gun for daily carry. On the other hand, some would argue that you should carry the very best tool for the job and the risk of damage or loss be damned.
My primary carry piece is a 1990 S&W M659 that was sold by the Atlanta PD. I hate stainless, and I detest the squared trigger guard on this model, so I feel no love for it and if lost I would shed no tears over it. It's the one gun I own that is strictly a tool. It's tough and reliable, durable and low maintenance. It's my work gun.
Now, having said that, I have on occasion carried guns that would me great angst if they were to be lost. But I admit that I don't do it very often.
My primary carry piece is a 1990 S&W M659 that was sold by the Atlanta PD. I hate stainless, and I detest the squared trigger guard on this model, so I feel no love for it and if lost I would shed no tears over it. It's the one gun I own that is strictly a tool. It's tough and reliable, durable and low maintenance. It's my work gun.
Now, having said that, I have on occasion carried guns that would me great angst if they were to be lost. But I admit that I don't do it very often.
I had a 1911 WWI comemerative many years ago. I sold it because I never took it out of its case. Very pretty but not a working gun. I have owned several guns and guns I carry are the most important to me. If you have a nickle plated gun with target sights don't carry it. You probably will not even notice the sights in a confrontation and if I am rolling around in the mud or dust I don't want something that is glaring and sparkling saying "here I am over here, go ahead and shoot me."
Anything that is going to interfere with the job of defending yourself or others should be left at home. There is a reason all military weapons are dull and plain looking.
Anything that is going to interfere with the job of defending yourself or others should be left at home. There is a reason all military weapons are dull and plain looking.
stalkingbear
Member
All of my firearms-every last 1, has been customized or optimized for more accuracy, reliability, and to be more ergonomically friendly. For example all my handgun grips have to be oversize due to my extra large hands. All my handguns have had full action tunes & hand fitting done to them. They feature good, high visibility sights that have been regulated to hit exactly to point of aim. All these features help me shoot them better. Why would I deliberately handicap myself with something other than 1 of these guns that I can shoot good?
WoofersInc
Member
My primary carry is a 1911. Usually one of my Kimber's. I have had people ask me why I don't carry one of the cheaper 1911's I have like my Taurus or RIA or my Charles Daly. I just like the way the Kimbers feel and handle.
My goal is to put enough money together to get a high end 1911 like a Wilson or a Les Baer. And I plan on carrying it when I do get it. I can always replace a gun but not my life. I want what works best for me when I need it to.
My goal is to put enough money together to get a high end 1911 like a Wilson or a Les Baer. And I plan on carrying it when I do get it. I can always replace a gun but not my life. I want what works best for me when I need it to.
AZ Desertrat
Member
I would....but it is not necessary. I feel just as good carrying my Taurus 85 snub as I do carrying my S&W 686 or my Glock 19......they all can and will save your life.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Yep I carry anything from a 642 with a 940 cylinder to a highly modified S&W 65.
I have posted to this effect before and the responses have been everything from flames to arrogance, but I will try again.
If you have to use the gun in self defense, it is very likely that the police will order you to drop it. And you will, or you will be too dead to care about the gun.
You will drop the gun in dirt, mud, sand, on concrete or macadam, and then some cop will kick it out of the way.
If you don't care what happens to it, fine, but the fact that you have an expensive custom gun in the first place suggests that it is not just a tool, like a hammer or a shovel.
Then the gun will be thrown (not carefully deposited in cotton batting) in the evidence locker, maybe on the concrete floor, where it will gather dust and rust while your case (yes, you WILL be arrested if you kill someone, whether you think it was justified or not) works out. In the best case, you are freed, and get your property back in a few days. But even if you are not prosecuted or are found not guilty, it may be weeks or months before you can get the gun back, if a police officer doesn't steal it or the police do not arbitrarily destroy all "crime" guns as they do in some areas.
So, carry a $10,000 engraved and gold inlaid pistol with diamond studded grips? Sure, if you want, but do NOT be under any illusion that it will be undamaged if you have to use it.
(To the guys who say, "I will NEVER drop MY gun, no matter what a cop says, as I have influence and money and ....", I say, lots of luck; I hope you mention me in your will.)
Jim
If you have to use the gun in self defense, it is very likely that the police will order you to drop it. And you will, or you will be too dead to care about the gun.
You will drop the gun in dirt, mud, sand, on concrete or macadam, and then some cop will kick it out of the way.
If you don't care what happens to it, fine, but the fact that you have an expensive custom gun in the first place suggests that it is not just a tool, like a hammer or a shovel.
Then the gun will be thrown (not carefully deposited in cotton batting) in the evidence locker, maybe on the concrete floor, where it will gather dust and rust while your case (yes, you WILL be arrested if you kill someone, whether you think it was justified or not) works out. In the best case, you are freed, and get your property back in a few days. But even if you are not prosecuted or are found not guilty, it may be weeks or months before you can get the gun back, if a police officer doesn't steal it or the police do not arbitrarily destroy all "crime" guns as they do in some areas.
So, carry a $10,000 engraved and gold inlaid pistol with diamond studded grips? Sure, if you want, but do NOT be under any illusion that it will be undamaged if you have to use it.
(To the guys who say, "I will NEVER drop MY gun, no matter what a cop says, as I have influence and money and ....", I say, lots of luck; I hope you mention me in your will.)
Jim
Big Daddy Grim
Member
customized yes Engraved no just personal preference.
Is a $2k+ gun getting ruined by the police better then death? Yes. Is it a wise investment? IMO no for half the price you can often get a gun that preforms the same.
I see it the same way as those $300 knives, yeah it's a cool knife but does it do anything that my $50 Kershaw can't?
I see it the same way as those $300 knives, yeah it's a cool knife but does it do anything that my $50 Kershaw can't?
Ed Ames
Member
Jim, Maybe the reason you got flames and arrogance is that you are stating obvious, irrelevant, and uncertain facts as though they are some deep and novel insight.
You sound like someone who doesn't understand how a Lamborgini owner could ever take it out in traffic.
You sound like someone who doesn't understand how a Lamborgini owner could ever take it out in traffic.
My question is, WHY did you customize it? To make it handsome, pretty, or otherwise good-looking, or to improve its function, i.e., defending your life? If the last, be happy that your investment paid off in a justified self-defense situation. If you live in a locality that has evidence officers who don’t appreciate a good weapon, at least you will have the knowledge that your investment paid off. If they do, drop off the socks and supplies needed to preserve it, and keep contact. If they know that you are interested, it will not be “lost” and may be better preserved against the possibility of a civil suit.
JK- Not necessarily how it goes although the scenario you describe is possible. Twice I have had responding police officers take my gun following an altercation (not with THEM, of course). The first time I had already set the gun down before the officer arrived and I pointed to it when he asked about it. The second time the cop reached out and I handed him the gun (same gun both times, now that I think about it).
I suggest that unless absolutely necessary you NOT be holding a gun in your hand when cops arrive on the scene. It's always a potentially dangerous situation when cops get to the scene of a shooting and see you standing there with a gun and they might not know yet who is the good guy.
I suggest that unless absolutely necessary you NOT be holding a gun in your hand when cops arrive on the scene. It's always a potentially dangerous situation when cops get to the scene of a shooting and see you standing there with a gun and they might not know yet who is the good guy.
Hi, Saxonpig,
You might have enough influence (maybe your father is the governor) that the police will bow and scrape and make sure you are not inconvenienced. But most of the time, if you are at the scene of a shooting and you have a gun in your hand, they will NOT politely ask you to hand it over. They want that gun out of your hands, and now!
Jim
You might have enough influence (maybe your father is the governor) that the police will bow and scrape and make sure you are not inconvenienced. But most of the time, if you are at the scene of a shooting and you have a gun in your hand, they will NOT politely ask you to hand it over. They want that gun out of your hands, and now!
Jim
scf4003
Member
I carry my Colt Python or SIG P220 Carry Elite on a daily basis, neither are customized but both are pretty expensive and would be hard for me to replace. I love these 2 guns and I shoot them very well with complete confidence.
In Ohio, a clean shooting requires the Police to return your weapon in a timely fashion or pay legal fees for it's return if taken to court, so I don't worry about it much.
In Ohio, a clean shooting requires the Police to return your weapon in a timely fashion or pay legal fees for it's return if taken to court, so I don't worry about it much.
Jim Keenan is wrong. If you have to use a gun for self defense is it EXTREMELY unlikely that law enforcement officers will be present when you do. Typically, you will have minutes to either: set the gun aside, reholster the gun, or vacate the area. You are not likely to be held at gunpoint by police after a self defense shooting simply because they are not likely to be present when it occurs. It sounds good, but emperical evidence shows otherwise.
Dan Crocker
Member
That's why I like Glocks. I could lose (hypothetically, I don't leave it around or anything) mine for whatever reason and not care. I'd just buy another one!
Zerodefect
member
Oh yeah, heaven forbid my fancy CCW should get scratched while saving my life. Oh the humanity! If my 1911 got scratched i'd have to shoot myself.I carry guns that work. When they could work better, I customize them to make it so. If my Glock works better with $300 worth of mods, so be it. If my 1911 has to be improved for a faster sight picture, reliability, and corrosion resistance from daily carry in the snow belt and it ends up being $2000. So fn what.
Every mod i've made has made my pistols faster and more reliable. I'm confident that they are much more able to help defend myself than an off the shelf weapon.
I'd rather be alive but missing an expensive weapon, than buried with my Lorcin.
Ed Ames
Member
Jim, It isn't a refusal to consider that something bad could happen. It's an acceptance of risks you are unwilling to accept. Your mistake is in thinking that your own thresholds are, or should be, meaningful for anyone else. As for gun in your hand... why on earth would you stand around with a gun in your hand after it was no longer needed? You have a holster for a reason...learn to use it.
sm
member
Jim Keenan knows of what he speaks.
I am on record suggesting folks get a good used police trade in, or find a good used gun, that is pristine internally, and has surface wear for carry.
Many of the folks I assisted, were concerned about budgets anyway. Single ladies, single moms, elderly, physically limited. These include sexual assault victims, battered and abused women and kids.
That good used Model 10 bought right, that was a Police trade in, was the ticket, back when we could get these aplenty and for a good price.
Tools for tasks and environment. I and mine had to dress for the tasks and in settings.
It was acceptable risk nice guns, would suffer consequences.
Yes, I have dropped a nice custom gun onto a asphalt parking lot, when officers said "drop it!"
Officers felt bad, they did not know it was me, still, the priority was to get guns dropped and get the matter sorted out now.
I have kicked a Colt Detective Special, with the nice deep bluing , under a vehicle, to another.
Not my gun, one our peoples, and it was kicked to me, to kick to another.
Model 29, had to go back to S&W. This was the gun I gave my lady partner, and matters went serious and I messed up that gun big time.
I was messed up, and took some time to recover...
Vehicle was totaled.
Speaking of which, I was one serious car accident, and the first responders and cops did the best they could to keep my guns "in good shape". They really did, still blood does things to guns.
Another accident, and the folks felt really bad for not even thinking of taking care of my guns. It just never crossed their minds.
They felt bad about it, still their priority was taking care of me.
I had a brand spanking new Model 37, the game plan was to keep this one nice.
Oh well, you do what you gotta do and that one got to looking worse that the one I carried, and had to go back to S&W before I ever got a chance to actually shoot it.
I had not even gotten to take the stocks off, clean it of factory lube, and relube it.
I and others accept all this.
Now my experiences include, folks with guns, they are afraid to shoot. Seriously.
Assisting on private ranges, and folks, and always guys, had some new gun, or "the" gun, or "kewl gun" or "gun of the month" and they would not shoot it.
Nor would they use the belt and holster.
Instead, they wore the damn things out, cleaning a clean gun, with the newest wonder solvent and lube of the week.
I am dead serious.
Show off the guns, talk about them, show pictures...
And shoot one of our guns.
The girls with the "antiquated" and "not good looking" guns, would outshoot them, always.
And...seen the Model 10s, Ruger Six Series, Colt DS...outshoot the "custom kewl toy of the month" and what Teem Seel uses too.
My Smith & Wesson Model 29 had a 5" barrel for a reason. I was not done to customize, instead fix what had happened to the muzzle and barrel.
My 044 was not custom, it too had been repaired and had character. One Gov't Model of 1911, always got attention, it only had about a inch or so of rifleling in the barrel left, from being shot a lot, and there was some bluing left, mostly under the stocks.
Another Gov't Model was in the white, during some lessons and set ups.
I was having it fixed and figured with what all we were doing, I was going to mess up a gun, so it made sense to run a gun in the white.
I was correct.
Gunsmith...
Gunsmith's just get to a point they do not shake heads and ask "what happened this time".
Well...
No need in rebluing the thing, only to lose the bluing and start all over again.
"At least the gold sight bit holds up, with you" he said.
Note: Just because you have a lanyard, does not mean the gun will not get beat all to hell.
You are just less likely to lose the gun is all.
Escalators will do a number on a firearm , trust me.
No, they do not give style points when you bust your butt doing lessons and set ups with escalators either.
Kel-Tec P-11.
I was asked to test and evaluate this gun for various folks, with varying criteria.
Some folks put back up, nice , older, guns, and went with the P-11. Such as those guns kept in farm/ranch vehicles, or in various places in a business setting.
I have seen a few P-11s that have been dropped, kicked, and not taken care of in a "storage setting" or "evidence room".
Umm yeah, in testing, the gold bead front sight does hold up as well...
I am on record suggesting folks get a good used police trade in, or find a good used gun, that is pristine internally, and has surface wear for carry.
Many of the folks I assisted, were concerned about budgets anyway. Single ladies, single moms, elderly, physically limited. These include sexual assault victims, battered and abused women and kids.
That good used Model 10 bought right, that was a Police trade in, was the ticket, back when we could get these aplenty and for a good price.
Tools for tasks and environment. I and mine had to dress for the tasks and in settings.
It was acceptable risk nice guns, would suffer consequences.
Yes, I have dropped a nice custom gun onto a asphalt parking lot, when officers said "drop it!"
Officers felt bad, they did not know it was me, still, the priority was to get guns dropped and get the matter sorted out now.
I have kicked a Colt Detective Special, with the nice deep bluing , under a vehicle, to another.
Not my gun, one our peoples, and it was kicked to me, to kick to another.
Model 29, had to go back to S&W. This was the gun I gave my lady partner, and matters went serious and I messed up that gun big time.
I was messed up, and took some time to recover...
Vehicle was totaled.
Speaking of which, I was one serious car accident, and the first responders and cops did the best they could to keep my guns "in good shape". They really did, still blood does things to guns.
Another accident, and the folks felt really bad for not even thinking of taking care of my guns. It just never crossed their minds.
They felt bad about it, still their priority was taking care of me.
I had a brand spanking new Model 37, the game plan was to keep this one nice.
Oh well, you do what you gotta do and that one got to looking worse that the one I carried, and had to go back to S&W before I ever got a chance to actually shoot it.
I had not even gotten to take the stocks off, clean it of factory lube, and relube it.
I and others accept all this.
Now my experiences include, folks with guns, they are afraid to shoot. Seriously.
Assisting on private ranges, and folks, and always guys, had some new gun, or "the" gun, or "kewl gun" or "gun of the month" and they would not shoot it.
Nor would they use the belt and holster.
Instead, they wore the damn things out, cleaning a clean gun, with the newest wonder solvent and lube of the week.
I am dead serious.
Show off the guns, talk about them, show pictures...
And shoot one of our guns.
The girls with the "antiquated" and "not good looking" guns, would outshoot them, always.
And...seen the Model 10s, Ruger Six Series, Colt DS...outshoot the "custom kewl toy of the month" and what Teem Seel uses too.
My Smith & Wesson Model 29 had a 5" barrel for a reason. I was not done to customize, instead fix what had happened to the muzzle and barrel.
My 044 was not custom, it too had been repaired and had character. One Gov't Model of 1911, always got attention, it only had about a inch or so of rifleling in the barrel left, from being shot a lot, and there was some bluing left, mostly under the stocks.
Another Gov't Model was in the white, during some lessons and set ups.
I was having it fixed and figured with what all we were doing, I was going to mess up a gun, so it made sense to run a gun in the white.
I was correct.
Gunsmith...
Gunsmith's just get to a point they do not shake heads and ask "what happened this time".
Well...
No need in rebluing the thing, only to lose the bluing and start all over again.
"At least the gold sight bit holds up, with you" he said.
Note: Just because you have a lanyard, does not mean the gun will not get beat all to hell.
You are just less likely to lose the gun is all.
Escalators will do a number on a firearm , trust me.
No, they do not give style points when you bust your butt doing lessons and set ups with escalators either.
Kel-Tec P-11.
I was asked to test and evaluate this gun for various folks, with varying criteria.
Some folks put back up, nice , older, guns, and went with the P-11. Such as those guns kept in farm/ranch vehicles, or in various places in a business setting.
I have seen a few P-11s that have been dropped, kicked, and not taken care of in a "storage setting" or "evidence room".
Umm yeah, in testing, the gold bead front sight does hold up as well...
Ed Ames
Member
Steve, with all due respect the question isn't whether guns will be kicked around or bloodied. The question is whether that matters to the choice of customization. For some it would. For others? It is so far down into the noise level it wouldn't even register.
There are people who will not take a new SP101 to the range because it might get powder residue on it. To them the gun is a talisman, not a tool, and frankly none of what Jim said matters because they will be dead or alive through no action of their own and the gun will be in its holster or maybe the factory cardboard box if the hammer drops. Those are the people with unopened toys from their childhood, and I'm not going to judge them but I will say I can't understand their perspective.
There are other people who flat don't see the relevance of the price tag when it comes to doing something. They may or may not spend $10,000 outfitting a handgun simply because that might be a huge amount of money to them, but if they had a $10,000 handgun it would be just as much a tool for them as a keltec. Their aesthetic sense may sway them to or away from a particular style of custom gun but at the end of the day function rules all considerations. I have had very expensive tools and I've used those tools, sometimes to destruction. That is what they were for. I didn't abuse them, but I never confused tool and talisman...never made the mistake of thinking that the survival of the tool was somehow more important than my own survival or success.
Jim seems to have a low risk acceptance threshold. That's fine. I have no problem with people setting their own limits. He is also projecting that threshold to others and acting as though someone else violating his thresholds is somehow wrong. That's just silly.
I don't personally own any engraved firearms because I think they are hideously ugly... but I do have some that I have customized and I consider expensive and frankly if I need to use one the fact that it might get banged up is not even remotely relevant. It's no different than a car or anything else... I have driven cars that rolled off the dealer floor with a price tag approaching the median home value of the USA at the time... and the fact that it might get into an accident was simply not relevant to the decision of where or how I drove it. I wouldn't have been in that car if I couldn't afford it at the time and I treated it no different than I'd treat a toyota or VW. There are a lot of people like that and it's silly to think they would treat a gun differently than they'd treat a car. At the end of the day it's just a thing.
There are people who will not take a new SP101 to the range because it might get powder residue on it. To them the gun is a talisman, not a tool, and frankly none of what Jim said matters because they will be dead or alive through no action of their own and the gun will be in its holster or maybe the factory cardboard box if the hammer drops. Those are the people with unopened toys from their childhood, and I'm not going to judge them but I will say I can't understand their perspective.
There are other people who flat don't see the relevance of the price tag when it comes to doing something. They may or may not spend $10,000 outfitting a handgun simply because that might be a huge amount of money to them, but if they had a $10,000 handgun it would be just as much a tool for them as a keltec. Their aesthetic sense may sway them to or away from a particular style of custom gun but at the end of the day function rules all considerations. I have had very expensive tools and I've used those tools, sometimes to destruction. That is what they were for. I didn't abuse them, but I never confused tool and talisman...never made the mistake of thinking that the survival of the tool was somehow more important than my own survival or success.
Jim seems to have a low risk acceptance threshold. That's fine. I have no problem with people setting their own limits. He is also projecting that threshold to others and acting as though someone else violating his thresholds is somehow wrong. That's just silly.
I don't personally own any engraved firearms because I think they are hideously ugly... but I do have some that I have customized and I consider expensive and frankly if I need to use one the fact that it might get banged up is not even remotely relevant. It's no different than a car or anything else... I have driven cars that rolled off the dealer floor with a price tag approaching the median home value of the USA at the time... and the fact that it might get into an accident was simply not relevant to the decision of where or how I drove it. I wouldn't have been in that car if I couldn't afford it at the time and I treated it no different than I'd treat a toyota or VW. There are a lot of people like that and it's silly to think they would treat a gun differently than they'd treat a car. At the end of the day it's just a thing.
Last edited:
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,712
Nah, I'm not worried about it. Anything I own, I carry. I'm prepared to use (and to lose) whatever I carry.
Same applies to my other possessions. I've owned and driven nice cars, nice motorcycles, nice guns. I've had nice cars damaged, and nice bikes wrecked and stolen. I've had beautiful women leave me (not recently
)
Stuff happens, and I'm still here to laugh, cry and tell the stories.
Bottom line: they are all possessions. Owning a nice gun or a nice car makes life just a little bit more fun. Losing one of them is not the end of the world. They can be replaced.
To paraphrase one member's sig line:
Having a Les Baer 1911 and never carrying or shooting it is like having a beautiful wife and never making love to her.
The difference is, the Les Baer can save your life, and you can replace it for $2000 or so...
Edited to add: I don't own anything with engraving, because as Ed Ames said above, I find engraving hideously ugly...moustache on Mona Lisa ugly. However, I carry Kimbers with upgrades--Ed Brown/Cylinder & Slide ignition parts, TruGlo TFO sights, Crimson Trace lasers, etc. I have several N-frames with Hamilton Bowen upgrades. These are all working guns. Maybe not "custom" to your definition, but worth (in replacement value anyway) far more than your standard sidearm. I don't hesitate to grab and holster one of them, because I trust each implicitly, and my life is the most valuable possession I own.
Same applies to my other possessions. I've owned and driven nice cars, nice motorcycles, nice guns. I've had nice cars damaged, and nice bikes wrecked and stolen. I've had beautiful women leave me (not recently
) Stuff happens, and I'm still here to laugh, cry and tell the stories.
Bottom line: they are all possessions. Owning a nice gun or a nice car makes life just a little bit more fun. Losing one of them is not the end of the world. They can be replaced.
To paraphrase one member's sig line:
Having a Les Baer 1911 and never carrying or shooting it is like having a beautiful wife and never making love to her.
The difference is, the Les Baer can save your life, and you can replace it for $2000 or so...
Edited to add: I don't own anything with engraving, because as Ed Ames said above, I find engraving hideously ugly...moustache on Mona Lisa ugly. However, I carry Kimbers with upgrades--Ed Brown/Cylinder & Slide ignition parts, TruGlo TFO sights, Crimson Trace lasers, etc. I have several N-frames with Hamilton Bowen upgrades. These are all working guns. Maybe not "custom" to your definition, but worth (in replacement value anyway) far more than your standard sidearm. I don't hesitate to grab and holster one of them, because I trust each implicitly, and my life is the most valuable possession I own.
David E
Member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7,459
What, the cops are AT THE SCENE within a second or two of you shooting the badguy? Um, doubtful. Proper tactics has you reholstering after you're sure the situation is over for the expressed purpose of NOT being shot by the cops. If you forgot to do this and you have cops telling you to drop it, tell them you're afraid it'll go off if you drop it, so set it down gently and step away from it. Tell them that you are the good guy. They MAY kick it, but we never did once we knew they couldn't reach the gun.
Maybe it's a matter of defining "customized." Most of my guns have work done to them to improve my ability to HIT with it. Isn't that a good thing to be able to say in court?
They don't destroy evidence guns.
It seems like you have an unusually high disregard for the cops in your area.....any reason ?
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
No, Jim Keenan is right. Because nothing you said about when the police arrive at the scene has anything to do with what happens to you gun WHEN, not if, the criminal justice system takes it into custody. If you fire your carry gun, plan on it being gone for a long time, or it being mistreated. Probably both. And that has nothing to do with whether the police are on the scene of the shooting right away.
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