Would you consider this poor sportmanship?

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jim in Anchorage

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As a Alaska resident I can shoot a brown/grizzly bear at no cost. But a non resident must hire a guide. So I tell my visiting hunters [I am not a guide these are friends] go ahead and shoot a grizzy we can put it on my tag. Yes I am lying when I claim I shot it. It bothers me. Thoughts?
 
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One tag, one bear. I don't see the problem. However, if there's any question of the legality of the hunt, you're on the hook for some 'spaining.
 
Morally/Ethically I would call you in the clear....Legally, you are exposed a bit

What are the requirements/certs to be considered a "guide"?

Just to CYA, can you become a guide?

-Matt S.
 
"...poor sportmanship?"

Would I consider it that? Nope.

I would consider it more an issue of "working around the edges".

I should think that the guide guideline has more to do with keeping non-residents from falling off a plane and commencing to shoot at anything brown and fuzzy - not to mention saving money on tracking down lost hunters or their corpses. Your escorting of the non-resident seems to fill way more than half of the supporting activity of hiring a "guide".

Figure - the guide in and of himself is not necessary to successful or safe hunting as evidenced by him not being required in the case of a resident hunting.

Noting that there is no real level of accountability on the part of a resident.

So - the guide requirement is more of an accompaniment/escort situation and you be he.

Sure - one can cite "guide" certification parameters but if guides are not needed for residents, they are not really needed but rather preferred... a point of view I happen to agree with by the way. Guides for outa-staters that is.

Todd.
 
I'm sure AK has specific regs pertaining to this; perhaps you should read them. Most States have specific requirements and liscensing for guides. I'd be quite surprised if AK did not. If it doesn't, guess I'm finding me a .375 H&H, a crusty old cowboy hat, a plaid shirt, and Pendelton vest, boarding a plane for Anchorage, and starting my new life as a guide!
 
But it bothers me I have to claim I shot it.
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Then don't.
Listen to your moral compass. Your future self will appreciate it.

If it was just a matter of legally giving someone a tag, I'd have no problem whatsoever. But it would bother me too if it required lying to do it.

But then again, I'm the guy who in 3rd grade cheated on a test and went to my teacher at the end of the day crying because I felt like crap about it. :(
 
I don't think it has anything to do with sportsmanship. Lying and breaking the law are not the same thing. Kind of like it's not poor sportsmanship when I speed or tell my wife "I'll be in in a minute".

I think you have answered your own question though, if it bothers you don't do it.
 
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If I understand the intent of that law is to prevent someone from shooting an animal expecting it to go on another person's tag only to discover the tag owner was off in another area and just filled it with his/her shot. Now you have 2 dead animals and only 1 tag.

Andy
 
OP is basically asking if poaching, stealing and lying are poor sportsmanship.

I like to help my friends also but, I want to think they would never put me in that situation.
 
It's wrong if it involves lying. Whether I'd do it would depend on how fair the the LEOs are in my area. If they are nit-picky jerks, I would do it. If they were fair and honest, I wouldn't "When in Rome ...."
 
I appreciate the honesty among you all. I'd certainly would not do it if it bothered me. I suppose you might not have felt worry free in the beginning but after the deed was done you are having a bout of moral grief.

If your friends expect the same next go round just politely explain you are having a moral issue with it. If they can't understand and respect your decision then the quality of the friendship is in question. I sound like an after school special.

Legally you have your neck out. I wouldn't want to be responsible if something happened.
 
One bear, one tag, is for game management purposes, but you have the bigger issue of helping your friends illegally scam the state's fish and game department out of funds they need to operate. Alaska's fish and game dept has a huge reliance on non-resident tourist hunting for operating funds so that residenst like yourself don't have to pay huge sums of money for YOUR tags. You are aiding your non-resident friends in stealing game that belongs to your nieghbors. Would it bother you if everybody in the vicinity brings their non-resident buddies to hunt big game for free?

I'm not so much turned off about bypassing the guide requirement, as them using your free tag.
 
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When you say you can shoot “a” bear at no cost, you mean one bear a year. It is not as if you have a dozen friends a year come up to shoot bears without paying for a guide. If the cost of a guide would make the difference between a tag fee being paid to the state or not being paid you would think the state would appreciate the revenue. Of course that is less revenue for the state than a what a non-resident would normally contribute. I am only guessing, but it maybe that the State will, in addition to citing you for a violation of the law, claim what you are doing is limiting the opportunity for Alaskan residents to get a tag by taking a tag you intend to not personally use. That may greatly increase any penalty the State imposes upon you. You are a nice guy for helping out your friends. Unfortunately, as is often said, nice guys finish last. I hope your situation does not become an example of “no good deed goes unpunished”. Good luck.
 
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If a non-resident hires a guide does he also have to buy a tag or does that come with the guide? Personally I don't like lying but some game laws are bureaucratic gobbledygook at best.
 
Would you consider this poor sportmanship?
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Well, it's illegal. I suppose that would fall under the "poor sportsmanship" umbrella.

And I'd gently suggest that if one is contemplating an illegal act, one should probably NOT post it on a public forum.

The Game & Fish departments of many states have dedicated specialist investigators whose job it is to monitor social media sites such as this. If one thinks that an anonymous user name is any sort of "protection", rest assured it is not.

Just sayin'...
 
This sounds similar to those situations when bird hunting and the limit if the whole group is reached even if a few shot more then they should have to make up for the ones who didn't fill their limit.

Personally, I agree with sentiments that if it bothers your conscience, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.”

― Aldo Leopold
Click to expand...
 
I believe that in some places it would be legal. A tag is a tag and they don't care who fills it. Not sure about how it would be in Alaska.

I know it isn't legal in some places. I had a cousin who got caught in a similar situation in one of the Western states several years back. It cost him $80,000 in fines for an elk.

I'm not certain of the details, but he was acting as a guide for a paying client. A 3rd person, a resident with a resident tag, was present and tagged the animal actually shot by the paying hunter.
 
I believe that in some places it would be legal. A tag is a tag and they don't care who fills it. Not sure about how it would be in Alaska.
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Not legal in Alaska for bear - the OP already stated that. There would be multiple violations involved.

From the regs which can be found here:

Nonresident brown/grizzly bear
hunters must be accompanied
in the field by a guide/outfitter or
a resident relative within second degree
of kindred.
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Nonresidents must purchase a
locking-tag in addition to their license
to hunt either a black or brown/grizzly
bear. Harvest tickets and permits may
also be required.
Click to expand...

If you are a nonresident and kill a
brown/grizzly bear while on a guided
hunt or while hunting with an Alaska licensed
resident relative within second-
degree of kindred, both you and
your guide or resident relative must
sign the sealing certificate or temporary
sealing certificate.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not certain of the details, but he was acting as a guide for a paying client. A 3rd person, a resident with a resident tag, was present and tagged the animal actually shot by the paying hunter.
Click to expand...

GOOD!

In some Western states, you'd not only face a huge fine, but jail, loss of hunting privileges forever, and anything used in connection with the event - like your gun, truck, etc.

We have enough issues about hunting - these types of scenarios are not needed........
 
plexreticle said:
OP is basically asking if poaching, stealing and lying are poor sportsmanship.

I like to help my friends also but, I want to think they would never put me in that situation.
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This is basically where I'm at with this. It's more than just the hiring of a guide, it's hunting without the proper tags. This is not just an issue of "working around the edges", this is flagrant illegal bear hunting, that is then compounded by tagging it illegally if one is taken. This is not a case of whether or not the local LEOS are fair. The law is fairly clear and specific and I doubt if there would be much room for argument if the OP got caught. I wouldn't ask any of my friends to break the law for me, that ain't what friends are about. If they asked me to, I'd find other friends. If I had hunting companions that advocated breaking hunting regs, I'd find other folks to hunt with. The fact that there are folks here claiming poaching is fine just as long as someone tags the animal is alarming and very disappointing to me to me.
 
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