Wouldn't 5 be enough?

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Where I live, if a citizen sees your gun, even if your shirt flips up for an instant, and calls the cops you have a problem. Not a crime, but if it happens more than a couple times, your carry license might get pulled.

Also, I lived 64 years without carrying a gun even once in a city -- and no problems as a computer science/EE living in silicon valley.

Now I've carried J frames for 3 years, and I'm glad I can. But this is a relatively low crime area.

If I had to schlep around a big 36 oz gun, and dress around it then I just wouldn't carry at all.

I fly all over the world. Take cruises on ships (that can sink). Visit third world countries.

If I was so paranoid that I had to carry multiple heavy guns with lots of ammo, I'd just stay home, cancel all my activities and not travel.

Stay home and watch TV and go nowhere and do nothing.

I'm not willing to compromise my life style to that extent.

To each his own.
 
JohnKSa said:
The requirements of the hypothetical gunfight that the sentence referred to were explicitly stated in the part of the sentence that were omitted from the quote. This particular hypothetical gunfight "requires more than 5 rounds".
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I'm usually a little sceptical of the "hypothetical gunfight" scenario as no two have ever been the same.

No plan survives the first contact intact.

The important things are simple but the simple things are very hard.

Carry a gun and know how to use it. That will generally solve about 99% of your security issues.

By all means get the training if you feel you need it. Never hurts to educate yourself. There are also legal issues to be aware of.
 
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Yes, I think 5 is enough for almost any situation, but it requires no more effort to have 7, 8, or even over 10.

If I'm going to carry something that is dimensionally the size of a Subby 38, it's going to hold more rounds and be a whole lot more accurate. That's just me though. I'll take something like a S&W shield or a Subcompact XD all day over a snubby.

In the hands of some shooters, a little pocket 380 is just as accurate or even much more accurate in some models and will do just about as much damage with good ammo from 6 feet away as a snubby 38. The advantages of the 38 are reliability and a bit more power. The advantages of the pocket 380 are conceal-ability, a few more rounds, and accuracy in some some models like the baby Sigs, Colt Mustang, Ruger LCP 2 etc.

I love revolvers, and I own several. They have their place, but for EDC, they have ran their course for the majority of situations IMO. I carry an NAA Black widow 22mag revolver when I'm playing on the water. I could definitely see why a stainless snubby on a kayak, or while surf fishing, or wading etc might be chosen over a small auto. I could also see why someone that has been shooting or carrying a snubby for over 30 years might not want to change or even be able to as revolvers do allow for a better purchase on the grip than most small autos. That could be huge with someone that's in later years or has physical limitations.

Revolvers also offer a simplicity that is great for casual gun owners or those not too familiar with firearms. my brother, nephew or in-laws who are not really into guns understand how a revolver works after shooting and loading it just a couple times. They're the type of people that will have a gun in the night stand that gets shot one every few years. A snubby 38 is the right choice for them IMO.
 
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Sarge7402 said:
The bag was small and about the size of a purse. Of course he was armed. We were paid to safely deliver a clients funds to the bank. He was in plain cloths not in a uniform and his vest (like mine at the time) was concealed under his clothing. So were our weapons. In the 2 1/2 years I did this work I was never spotted carrying my weapon (and on many an occasion I was carrying a Colt Trooper with a 4 inch barrel). Our guy was mistaken for the night manager from home depot (he got delayed cause he couldn't lock the front door of the store)
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If you made your rounds at a certain time of day you could be ID'd as a courier. Isn't that hard to know who the bag men are.

My dad used to carry the proceeds from a restaurant with him every night when he came home and carried it back to the restaurant in the morning. The bank was 15 miles away in the opposite direction and he went there once a week. He carried a pump shotgun with a cut barrel on the road and walking to and from the restaurant. He had worked as a cop and was a combat vet. You don't screw around when you carry money everyday from a business. People know what's in the bag if they're looking for cash. Trying to rob the bag man is a risky situation.
 
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I'm usually a little sceptical of the "hypothetical gunfight" scenario as no two have ever been the same.
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Obviously, the only constraints on a hypothetical gunfight are the imagination. However, in this case, the hypothetical was very general, the only specification being that it was about gunfights which require more than 5 rounds to resolve. The comment I made was to be interpreted in that context.

The main point was that sometimes gunfights require 5 rounds or less and sometimes they require more than that. When making the decisions about carry gun capacity and reloads, the decision should be made on the basis of facts rather than rationalizing a pre-determined course of action based on preference and expedience. Rationalizations and explanations and debate won't change the parameters of a gunfight. When a person finds themselves in a gunfight, the number of rounds required to resolve the gunfight will not be affected in the least by an argument that one of the participants posted on a gun forum, or a rationalization that they found convincing, or by the capacity of the handgun they like to carry the most.
No plan survives the first contact intact.
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Correct. Hopefully no one is looking at the comments I've made on this thread an interpreting them as being plans for a gunfight.
 
What are the facts of a gunfight that has not yet happened?
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JohnKSa said:
Everyone who bothers to prepare will have to pick a level that they feel is reasonable and prepare to that level.
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The level to which you choose to prepare (for example: to repel two armed and determined attackers, to repel one armed and determined attacker, or to deal with an active shooter in your church, etc.) will provide a general framework of facts to work with.
 
When I see threads like this I always wonder just how many of the people that respond have actual, been there, done that, knowledge of what happens. I have been fortunate to have never been in or witnessed a situation that would call for defense with a gun so I have no clue as to what actually happens. I imagine that a great majority of the responders are like me.
 
Philosophy:

SD - Shooting your way out of trouble.
LEO - Shooting your way into it.

Different set of requirements.

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​
GR
 
What is an 'active shooter?' You're either shooting or you're not. Seems like adding a second word where none is needed. That is, unless there's such a thing as an 'inactive shooter.'
 
An "active shooter" is what they're referred to when they're shooting up a school, shopping mall or movie theater. Usually police are responding to a shooting that has already been concluded. An "active shooter" is, as the name suggests, still actively shooting.
 
This question is unanswerable, as no one can predict whether they'll need a gun and if yes, under what circumstances. If you will need your gun, is it for a single attacker or multiple attackers? Are the attackers human or is it a number of dogs, or other type of animal? If human how determined are the attackers and so on.

Statistically few of us will need our guns. Among those who do, the numbers say 2 to 3 shots are sufficient. I don't walk around armed to the teeth, but it costs me nothing to carry a couple of magazines. I'm probably among the most boring people you know, and the most dangerous thing I do now is cut my lawn so the the odds of me needing a gun for SD are immeasurably low, but in the incredibly unlikely event that I did need more than 5 rounds I'd hate not to have them.
 
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Bigmike79 said:
In the hands of some shooters, a little pocket 380 is just as accurate or even much more accurate in some models and will do just about as much damage with good ammo from 6 feet away as a snubby 38. The advantages of the 38 are reliability and a bit more power. The advantages of the pocket 380 are conceal-ability, a few more rounds, and accuracy in some some models like the baby Sigs, Colt Mustang, Ruger LCP 2 etc.
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The advantage of .380 isn't in the caliber, per se'. It's the fact that many pistols are specifically designed thinner and smaller FOR that caliber.
The Walther PPK comes to mind, as a perfect example. You can't get one in 9MM Luger. Now they are designing more large caliber pistols
specifically for concealed carry, but for a long time you had to choose either a full-size, a 380, or 32.
 
"Active Shooter" is used to differentiate between someone who is armed and threatening with a weapon (i.e., "Give me all the money!") and someone already engaging in violence. The typical alternative names I've seen used are 'Active Shooter' (now giving way to 'Active Violent Actor' as more folks use trucks and knives for attacks) and 'Threatened Violence'.

Larry
 
"The level to which you choose to prepare will provide a general framework of facts to work with."

I agree. Given where I go and what I do, I can't imagine a situation that is likely at all where anyone would start shooting at me from a distance. Carjack me or mug me, unlikely but maybe. Open up on me from 25 yards away? It seems like that would be some sort of random act of violence and literally less likely than being struck by lightning.

My carry pieces hold 5-7 shots. I don't carry reloads. I feel prepared to handle an attempted mugging or car-jacking. I don't feel prepared to be shot at from long-distance, or attacked by more than a couple of attackers, but I've decided that those things are so unlikely in my particular circumstances that I'm not going to prepare for them.

I lower my risks by approaching things in a different way than many here. To me, situational awareness is paramount. I also lower my risk of being a crime victim by not looking like one. I'm a big guy. If I'm out and about, I dress borderline "rough", looking like I don't have ten cents in my pockets. My vehicles (though well maintained and mechanically sound) are old and practically worthless. I'm not as pretty as I used to be. If I don't look at all like a good target for mugging, car jacking, or sexual assault, it seems unlikely to me that I will be the victim of a violent crime. But just in case, I like to have a revolver or small automatic on me, something that I've practiced with a lot (and carried where I can reach it quickly).

I have been involved in two "incidents". They both involved protecting a woman I knew, once my wife and once a neighbor. In the first incident, showing a gun made the BG run. In the second, he was completely wasted and didn't notice me (even though I was shouting) until I shot into the mud at the base of a tree. Then he ran. I could have easily shot either one of them, but didn't want to.

On the other hand, I did get two flat tires once. :)
 
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I suppose I might as well add my dos centavos since just about everyone else has.

5 is better than 0.

6 is better than 5.

15 is better than 6.

There is an argument for a 200 round belt for an M60 in some locations.

It boils down to which piece you can carry on a daily basis.
 
[QUOTE
Now I've carried J frames for 3 years, and I'm glad I can. But this is a relatively low crime area.
[/QUOTE]

So low crime means that you are unlikely to be in an incident. But how does that affect the quality of the incident? For the J frame only guys - how many of your practice with it in dynamic training situations or in competitions? I do with mine.

Fess up. Since you live in a low crime area, you don't need to practice hitting the nice criminals in your area?

Let's cut to the chase and admit that '5 only' says that you are ready for and predicting a one person mugger be gone scenario at close range, where you hit your opponent efficaciously. You have decided that you won't face more folks at a long distance with a probability that you find important.

Such an old discussion, with such old cliches and put downs of those who don't accept that what you have decided is correct and those who carry more are silly. Cut it out. Just say you accept the limitations and that's that. It's ok.

Since most CCW types don't carry most of the time and the vast majority have no training or practice that is significant, the ever returning 5 or 9 is enough thread is just ... .
 
ColeK said:
Wouldn't 5 be enough?
This question was asked on the 24hourcampfire.Handgun form, below is what he posted:

#12590334 - 01/28/18 Wouldn't 5 be enough?
Windfall; Campfire Regular; Joined: Sep 2017; Posts: 430; WI./FL.
Like a lot of you, I carry a S&W J frame with five .38 Special +P loads in the cylinder. This is a close quarter personal defense handgun, not something for longer range or extended shooting. I read that many of you carry extra ammo in the speed loaders or clips or you Glock shooters with more ammo weight in the clip than the gun itself. I would sure think that if I had the time to be reloading, that I would also have time to be out of the situation. Am I just being naive not packing lots of extra ammunition along or are lots of people just paranoid? I figure that my best defense is not putting myself in harms way to begin with. Comments?


I know longer post on any of forms over there because too many members too low road, so I am asking the question here.

Since I am retired, yes 5 enough, I stay aware of my situation anb a S&W Model 637 in my left front pocket and my cane in my right hand.

There are some places along the 4 lane highway that runs through small town, (15k) in a county of 23 (23k), I'll also carry my .357 Mag. S&W Model 60 loaded with BB 38 Spl +P+, depending on the time of day or evening. After about 9 o'clock the druggies and out of towners start to gather at the all eaters on the highway and more times then not they are looking for trouble.

If I have go too one of 5 Metro areas that are with 200 miles of me all have problem areas I have to go through, I also carry 2 of my 1911 with 3 magazines each and a speed strip for my 637 and Model 60 in each pocket and a 2 by 2 strip on each side of my belt.
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If it can't be solved with 6 shots, it can't be solved.
 
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