Wounded shooter drills: One-handed revolver speed reload?

[sidheshooter]

I'm going to be retaking (for the third time) a specific mid-level defensive hand gunning class, just because I can (shooting stuff, as the box o truth guys say, is fun). The last two times, I used common autoloaders for the class-much of which consisted of beaucoup manipulation: strong and weak hand-only shooting and typical malf drills, along with strong/strong-only/mirror image/weak-only reloading drills.

This time, for kicks, I'm running it with a K-Frame (with permission). I've spent some time behind the old 64/65s, and I'm fairly confident that I can keep up with the auto loaders, having been taught speed loading one-on-one by Mas back in the 90's, and having used his "stressfire" techniques in classes, fun shoots and club competitions many times since.

What I've never seen covered, however, is one hand-only techniques for the revolver; wheelies were on the way out before this sort of training/thinking became universally commonplace.

I'm just curious as to if anyone here has ever been exposed to a technique that's worth a darn, besides scrabbling in desperation, for reloading a revolver using a speedloader and only one hand.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Strykervet]

I can't be sure, but I think there was a guy that shot competitively with one arm. He lost the other (and couldn't find it I guess). Anyway, I think he used a revolver. See if you can find a video of him on youtube or something. Youtube also might uncover something, and in this case, a picture or film is worth more than words.

Personally, I can't envision easily reloading a revolver one handed. Sure moon clips would help a LOT though. Some kind of rig or bag to hang the iron on while you are loading might be helpful too.

With autoloaders, I know some guys "slingshot" the slide, they rack it using inertia in competitions. They slam the pistol on top of the mag and then jerk the arm back and foward, real fast, and that racks the slide and they are in action. Unloaded to firing in like a second. Must have real light springs though. I tried it and couldn't get any of mine to do that.

 

[sm]

Strykervet,
I believe you are correct about a one-handed shooter on youtube.

I thought Ayoob and Givens had something to share about this as well. I would contact them.

I come up with interesting mentors, some of whom had amputations. So I would don a boxing glove or similar to learn lessons.
I used speed strips as I was mentored to "get four in the gun and run it!"
This had to do with using standard pressure .38spl ammo, which would work in dedicated .38spl revolvers, and .357 revolvers, no matter how many rounds they held in charge holes.
One never knew, amongst my kind, when tossing a reload, or being tossed one might occur.

I was mentored to use knees, legs, and under the weak side arm to hold revolver in reloading.

Now I used Smiths, often a Model 10, though Model 36s were used too.
Some of my Mentors used Colts, and pointed out the fact that "notch" in the safety release was designed to catch a LE officers "shoe/boot" and in pulling back, released.

On a Smith, one pushes forward and I learned to do this on my footwear, and against anything, as I did with a 1911, to get the slide back.

(Hence the reason I carried, and still prefer bone stock 1911s with recoil guide plug as designed by JMB.)

One never knows when they may get hurt, or even shot and can only use one hand, no matter if a semi or revolver user.

Steve

 

[lemaymiami]

The book that was my bible when I finally got serious about my weapons skills.... Is the book from the late seventies, Street Survival. If memory serves it covers just the sort of stuff you're interested in, along with lots of other stuff I found important... I think that anyone who might be forced to use a firearm for self defense or on the job should make a point of reading chapter 13 (about what many go through after surviving an armed encounter...).

The book is probably very dated by current standards but it was just what I needed at the time. I'd been a street cop for around five years, had my first and only shooting, and my share of consequences...

 

[Averageman]

I would think..
Take cover would be the first thing to do; then do a good 360.
Take a knee, release cylinder, eject empties against boot heel, tuck barrel in waist, reload.
Take a good look 360 and look at my wound.
Should work pretty well in most situations.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Most of it isn't hard, it just takes practice.

Releasing the cylinder, pushing it out, reloading and the closing the cylinder should be self apparent. Ejecting the spent cartridges is another animal and takes some thought.

Ideally the ejection rod should be pointing upward to allow the shells to fall out of the chambers without getting caught under the ejector star...not too easy, unless you are taking cover under a overhanging surface.

You could try to press the ejection rod down against your boot heel...just enough to push the cartridges up so that you can pick them out with your fingers...if you believe you'll have enough touch to not push hard enough to clear them and let them get caught under the star. This is a technique which is very well adapted to the Colt revolvers (non-moon clipped) as their rods are designed shorter than the empty cases.

I was taught to:
1. ram the ejection rod against a vertical surface to try to throw the rounds clear of the chambers.
2. Insert the barrel into my belt (using the belt to hold the cylinder open).
3. Pick out any remaining rounds.
4. Reload.
5. Close cylinder using the belt or leg

 

[sm]

9mmepiphany,

Good post. I was taught that as well.
I didn't forget the belt per se, just later I would assist ladies on this and they don't always have a belt.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Thank you.

After 28 years in LE, I some times forget that that not all gals wear duty belts

I've also done the underarm thing and the between the knees thing...it does remind you how hot the barrel and cylinders get

 

[sm]

After 28 years in LE, I some times forget that that not all gals wear duty belts

Yeah, well, not so much today, but back in the day, gals wore dresses and skirts.
Then I do recall more recent memories of undercover female vice cops, females, and the outfits they wore...umm...where was I?

Yeah, the barrels and cylinders do get a bit warm at times...

But I was raised as I was, including Thinking Out of The Box.

I mean not all guys wear a belt. They get home and put on a pair of frumpy jeans with no belt, or shorts, or sweat pants or...fior instance.

So for me, lessons from gals do transition to guys. For too long folks have thought females HAD to learn how males did things. Not me, not how raised.
Guys can learn from females how some things are done, like not having a belt, and having to do one-handed drills.

It is all good, as the deal is surviving a threat, and having the mindset, skill sets "then" tool sets to so.

 

[sidheshooter]

The book that was my bible when I finally got serious about my weapons skills.... Is the book from the late seventies, Street Survival. If memory serves it covers just the sort of stuff you're interested in, along with lots of other stuff I found important... I think that anyone who might be forced to use a firearm for self defense or on the job should make a point of reading chapter 13 (about what many go through after surviving an armed encounter...).

The book is probably very dated by current standards but it was just what I needed at the time. I'd been a street cop for around five years, had my first and only shooting, and my share of consequences...

Forgot all about those books. Just ordered two of the triumvirate, thanks.

 

[sidheshooter]

Take a knee, release cylinder, eject empties against boot heel, tuck barrel in waist, reload.

About what I was thinking, thanks... and thanks to everyone else for the input as well. I'll be wearing good shoes and a very stiff composite belt, for sure.

 

[mortablunt]

Thanks for bringing up this topic. It's actually a rare day that we talk about how to cope with injuries here.

 

[lemaymiami]

A few additional comments about that book, Street Survival. Lots of very graphic photos to illustrate the various techniques recommended, as well as pics from scenes where bad tactics cost an officer's life. Most think of one armed drills in a range scenario. Imagine re-loading one handed while laying on your back, in bad shape in a street or garbage strewn alley... or using a street gutter as cover when nothing else is available. Even though I was a "veteran" cop who'd also done a little trip to Vietnam (my dad did two tours there, mine was only a short tour), that book became my bible, all those years ago.

 

[GRIZ22]

What I've never seen covered, however, is one hand-only techniques for the revolver; wheelies were on the way out before this sort of training/thinking became universally commonplace

I learned one handed reloading with a revolver at the police academy in 1974. People were thinking in those days too. It was also taught in the basic course for my federal job in 1979.

 

[Loosedhorse]

2. Insert the barrel into my belt (using the belt to hold the cylinder open).

This is sometimes difficult if you're not standing: maybe you're crouching behind cover, or maybe you also have a simulated leg wound (if you are practicing wounded shooter drills, maybe practice having more than one injury--it happens).

Your holster is usually the best choice (when the wounded hand is the support hand) to hold the revolver during reload, although it typically means placing the gun in butt forward. Other choices might be pockets (barrel in pocket, cylinder out), barrel in the crook of a bended knee or elbow (if you do that, don't close the cylinder until the barrel is clear of your limbs; no matter how bad the situation is, shooting yourself will not improve things).

Perhaps it goes without saying, but I'll say it: such reloading drills MUST be done with dummy ammo and no live ammo on you.

Try new stuff. Put yourself on your belly with a revolver that needs be reloaded, and figure out how to do it one-handed.

And then come tell me how!

But the point is: imagine what you can before the fight, and develop a never-give-up attitude. You CAN reload that revolver, NOW DO IT!

 

[sm]

Try new stuff. Put yourself on you belly with a revolver that needs be reloaded, and figure out how to do it one-handed.

One way I did it, using a vehicle for cover, was to use the underneath of vehicle to hit the extractor rod, then I stuck the barrel into the leaf springs of suspension to feed charge holes by hand.
It seems Mentors did not want me to use a speed loader, or speed clip.

They had a tendency to load my guns, and spare loads ( mags, speed loaders, speed strips) with spent ammo, or nothing at all.

They sorta pushed this "thinking out of the box" and "improvise, adapt, overcome" bit often.

*boy-did-they*

 

[sidheshooter]

I learned one handed reloading with a revolver at the police academy in 1974. People were thinking in those days too. It was also taught in the basic course for my federal job in 1979.

^^^Good to hear. So what did they teach you to do, out of curiousity?

Try new stuff. Put yourself on your belly with a revolver that needs be reloaded, and figure out how to do it one-handed.

And then come tell me how!

But the point is: imagine what you can before the fight, and develop a never-give-up attitude. You CAN reload that revolver, NOW DO IT!

That's good advice. I've come up with some useful ways that work for me using knees while kneeling or on my back. I guess belly is next...

 

[sidheshooter]

Hey lemaymiami,

Just a quick update to say that I received the first of the three books from that series today (street survival), and there is indeed a section on one-handed reloading of the service revolver. Most useful.

I also learned something about my own selective memory: I remember every single "survival" oriented picture in that book, but somehow, the printed word drifted away over the last 20 years or so. Funny that... (kidding)

Definitely a good review, and even more useful for today's revolver shooter, given the auto-centric nature of the private shooting schools I've had experience with. Like a clean '86 jag xjs or '82 911sc targa, old school can still be cool.

 

[lemaymiami]

The tactics in that book helped keep me alive during the worst of south Florida's fun times, the 1980's. By then the outfit I worked for allowed us to carry semi-autos, but I'd say the tactics are more important than the weapon every time.... I used to preach to my officers that John Wayne was dead - and you could join him anytime if you weren't careful and used good tactics. Cover, concealment, waiting for your backup meant a lot in street confrontations. None of that one on one stuff, if you could possibly help it.

 

[GRIZ22]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIZ22

I learned one handed reloading with a revolver at the police academy in 1974. People were thinking in those days too. It was also taught in the basic course for my federal job in 1979.

^^^Good to hear. So what did they teach you to do, out of curiousity?



Some of this has been mentioned already. Whatever you do you need to be creative.

You're dealing with a couple of things after opening the cylinder:

1. Ejecting the empties- use your index finger through the frame to help immobilize the open cylinder and muzzle up as much as possible push the ejector rod against whatever you have wall, opposite shoulder, bottom edge of car door, I've even seen a guy use his chin in a training session. Important to have that muzzle up as much as possible as you don't want an empty getting caught under the extractor star as had been said.

2. Immobilizing the gun-behind knee, under opposite arm pit, crook of arm, using arm to pin to chest, tucked in belt, holster, or top of boot, open door between hinge end of door and frame, seat cushion in car, just about anywhere you can wedge the barrel and keep the cylinder immobile as much as possible. The more you immobilize the gun the bettera speed loader will work. The importance of practicing reloads from loops, 2x2 pouch, or dump pouch is better. If you use a speed strip that tug with every 2 rds you put in increases the chances of you having to recover your revolver. Carrying a 2x2 pouch at 4-5 o'clock makes it easier to get ammo in the prone or other arkward position. Longer barrel revolvers are easier to immobilize. Do not worrying about damaging the finish on your revolver if you have to do this for real. The idea is to stay alive and have a good story as to why the gun is all strachted up.

Your first move in almost any situation should be to move to cover. We are not dueling. If you stop to reload when you're not behind cover you most likely will not survive.

 

[BSA1]

One hand reload is difficult and slow at best. There are well documented incidents of LEO's being wounded in a shootout being unable to reload their revolver because of the blood and gore from their wounds flowing into the action and cylinder.

Another thought while you are fumbling around what is the BG doing?

Your best one hand reload is a New York reload, i.e. second revolver. You are really handicapped shooting a semi-auto drill with a round gun although I bet some of the shooters are going to be surprised at how accurate a revolver is. Keep us posted what you come up with.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Much of this has been covered already.


First priority is getting the spent cases free from the gun. Reliably and forcefully. If you've only got one working arm, and a 2" J-frame . . . forget it. If only your hand is wounded, use your arm or wrist to work the ejector. Keep any and all blood away from the gun. During the Miami shootout several of the FBI Agents received shots to the hands and forearms, and even one of the Agents had his gun hit and disabled by the round it received.


I've sat in on Tom Givens' after action report from the fight. One Agent reported his gun went down because he used his hands to empty and recharge the gun . . . hands that had been struck and wounded with gunfire. One Agent's gun went completely out of action because he he used wounded hands to attempt to clear it. He got blood, pieces of his flesh, and bone fragments under the extractor. It wouldn't seat rounds and failed to close, and he was effectively out of the fight because of it.


So . . . effectively clear the action of empties. Use whatever is in the environment to do it.


Open the cylinder. Shove it barrel first into your belt, action open, cylinder to the front. Or if you're thin and mobile, shove it into your leather holster, backwards. Kydex holsters . . . forget it, use the space between your belly and belt to do the following work . . .

Charge the gun. Remember that speedloaders require gravity to work. A dump pouch or 2x2x2 pouch is invaluable if you cannot stand upright when charging the gun this way. Get rounds into the gun. And keep any debris out of it.

Close the cylinder and get back to work.




In all . . . it pretty much sucks. If you have alternatives, like knives or Hand to Hand skills, this is the time . . .

 

[Deaf Smith]

I'm going to be retaking (for the third time) a specific mid-level defensive hand gunning class, just because I can (shooting stuff, as the box o truth guys say, is fun). The last two times, I used common autoloaders for the class-much of which consisted of beaucoup manipulation: strong and weak hand-only shooting and typical malf drills, along with strong/strong-only/mirror image/weak-only reloading drills.

This time, for kicks, I'm running it with a K-Frame (with permission). I've spent some time behind the old 64/65s, and I'm fairly confident that I can keep up with the auto loaders, having been taught speed loading one-on-one by Mas back in the 90's, and having used his "stressfire" techniques in classes, fun shoots and club competitions many times since.

What I've never seen covered, however, is one hand-only techniques for the revolver; wheelies were on the way out before this sort of training/thinking became universally commonplace.

I'm just curious as to if anyone here has ever been exposed to a technique that's worth a darn, besides scrabbling in desperation, for reloading a revolver using a speedloader and only one hand.

Thanks in advance.

Teach the New York reload.

Especially one handed that is the way to go.

Deaf