Wrong car in Drug War.

[Spreadfire Arms]

I say do this{again}:

If you want to eliminate police abuse against innocent parties, punish the whole force.
If one cop is found to have violated the Constitution in any way{ by deliberate intent} then do absolutely nothing to the offending officer. No suspension,fine, loss of job, nothing.

Instead do this, randomly select 5 officers on the force{smaller force smaller number} and imprison them in a maximum security state prison in general population for 5 years with no parole.

Watch how fast the bad apples have "gun cleaning accidents"

great idea hoji,

now let's apply that line of logic to citizens. If you want to eliminate crime against innocent parties, punish the entire population.

do absolutely nothing to the offending citizen and randomly select 5 other citizens and imprison them for 5 years with no parole.

watch how fast the THR members get mad.

funny how when the tables turn it is oppression, when it is aimed against LE it is proper?

how logical is that....

 

[hoji]

funny how when the tables turn it is oppression, when it is aimed against LE it is proper?

With LE it is proper because they have taken an oath to uphold the law and abide by the Constitution. The same way it is proper to punish an entire unit for one soldiers screw up. The unit will deal with the screw up and do what it takes to see to it that they are not punished for his/her actions.

This would also work with LE.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

hoji

did you really mean that? pick 5 at random and give em 5 years?! mmmmm thats special.

 

[hoji]

cassandrasdaddy,

Do you deny that it would clean up every department in the country almost overnight? It works in the military, penalize the group for the actions of one,the group insures that they dont get gigged again.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

what was your plan

to get them to suspend the constitution??! that plan would get laughed outa a sophmore government class high school sophmores. hey but thanks for helping to give us a crediblity benchmark. you need the top and bottom defined on a scale

 

[hoji]

Answer the question.
Do. You. Deny. That. It. Would. Work?

 

[Deanimator]

It seems like the police can't do anything right for this forum

What exactly DID the police do that was "right"?

The cops involved committed serious crimes.

The cops who "punished" them made a mockery of justice.

What do you think would happen to either of those men if they'd similarly assaulted a cop?

You seem to subscribe to the "Some animals are more equal than others." philosophy.

 

[Deanimator]

Answer the question.
Do. You. Deny. That. It. Would. Work?

I've got a better solution, which doesn't violate the US Constitution.

Every time a government agency is found guilty of having violated somebody's rights in such an egregious way, any and all judgements are deducted from the operating budget of the agency in question. The guilty party would NOT be allowed to use insurance to pay the settlement, nor would funds be allowed to be reallocated from other fund centers.

If the department had to lay off officers, so be it. If they had to surplus police cars, too bad. If they had to sell their office equipment and furniture to a used office supply company to pay the judgement, tough luck. And such measures should be mandated until the ENTIRE judgement is payed off.

Now THAT would get some attention, and without violating anybody's rights. If a cop knew that his partner's misconduct might cost him his job, he might think twice about participating, or looking the other way.

I've advocated this as a solution to the hijinks of the BATFE for years.

 

[hoji]

And no. I do not seriously advocate locking up innocent people.
But on the other hand, the method works very well in our Armed Forces.

 

[hoji]

Deanimator,

I like your idea better than mine but the officers involved should get a stiffer sentence{2X at least} than what the maximum on the books is.

 

[ilbob]

I can see greater punishment for the cops, but I don't see much larger compensation. The guys deserved compensation, but they were not seriously injured in anything but pride. They don't deserve to be made independently wealthy by the tax payers.

I agree the taxpayers should not be on the hook. Take every nickle the perps have, including any pension funds built up and use it to offset the settlement.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

We need to get to the whole root of this problem---that is:

Drug Prohabition Has to End NOW!!!!

Without this whole War on Drugs---they wouldn't have been looking at the original car--let alone the second one.

Illegal searches and raids would end----even in my own county here I'm seeing a trend that I don't like what I see --AT ALL.

Generally on the interstate---our local county mounties(all dressed in military fatigues and black jack boots----haven't seen them in a standard cops uniform for several years) will have a vehicle pulled over all the doors open performing a search---have seen this numurous times.

With legalized drugs they would have little reason to search anything---plus you would de-fund the gangs and most criminal activity----not to mention being able to down size jails---prisons and the court system.

 

[ilbob]

I don't see how taking retribution against innocent parties is a good solution. The problem is that when LE agencies or the agents act in an inappropriate way, there is really no penalty for either the agency of the agents involved. We need to find a way to punish those who were involved in the misconduct, including those who attempt the inevitable coverup.

In principle, I like the idea of taking the costs of any civil settlement out of the operating budget of the agency, but the reality is that you need some level of LE, and you can't have the budget swinging wildly from year to year.

The real answer is political. Keep in mind that one of the reasons the politicians accept LE misconduct is because the politicians need the guys with the guns to be beholden to them. The guys with the guns help keep the population in check. It is not that simple, but it is a part of the equation.

I say do this{again}:

If you want to eliminate police abuse against innocent parties, punish the whole force.
If one cop is found to have violated the Constitution in any way{ by deliberate intent} then do absolutely nothing to the offending officer. No suspension,fine, loss of job, nothing.

Instead do this, randomly select 5 officers on the force{smaller force smaller number} and imprison them in a maximum security state prison in general population for 5 years with no parole.

Watch how fast the bad apples have "gun cleaning accidents"

 

[ilbob]

Drug Prohabition Has to End NOW

Not just drug prohibition. We have all kinds of laws prohibiting behaviors and activities that either harm no one, or primarily harm only a person who knowingly accepts the risk. The real harm comes from making these behaviors illegal.

This is not a LE problem. It is political. I remain amazed that some here continue to blame LE for what your elected representatives have brought down on you. LE are paid enforcers for what the politicians decide. Their loyalty is mostly to that paycheck. Change the law to eliminate the most egregious laws, and LE will cease being such a burden on us commoners, and can go back to spending its time dealing with real criminals, rather than made criminals.

 

[XDKingslayer]

great idea hoji,

now let's apply that line of logic to citizens. If you want to eliminate crime against innocent parties, punish the entire population.

do absolutely nothing to the offending citizen and randomly select 5 other citizens and imprison them for 5 years with no parole.

watch how fast the THR members get mad.

funny how when the tables turn it is oppression, when it is aimed against LE it is proper?

how logical is that....

In case you haven't noticed, they've already applied that logic to us.

Let's review...

Bad guys use guns, now we have to jump through hoops to get guns.
Bad guys use automatic weapons, now we have to jump through hoops to get automatic weapons.

I could go on forever, but I think you get the point.

 

[LoveMyCountry]

Every time a government agency is found guilty of having violated somebody's rights in such an egregious way, any and all judgements are deducted from the operating budget of the agency in question. The guilty party would NOT be allowed to use insurance to pay the settlement, nor would funds be allowed to be reallocated from other fund centers.

If the department had to lay off officers, so be it. If they had to surplus police cars, too bad. If they had to sell their office equipment and furniture to a used office supply company to pay the judgement, tough luck. And such measures should be mandated until the ENTIRE judgement is payed off.

Now THAT would get some attention, and without violating anybody's rights. If a cop knew that his partner's misconduct might cost him his job, he might think twice about participating, or looking the other way.

This would probably work very well. Unfortunately, I believe it would also create a situation where the only way the Police would arrest someone is if the arrestee made an appointment, came to the station - with their Attorney - and competed a Request to be Arrested form... in triplicate!

LoveMyCountry

 

[Master Blaster]

Thats nothing they just got a little roughed up, Keeps the pesants in line and reminds them who is boss.

The Wilmington Police Gestapo squad conducted a summary execution on an innocent unarmed man who had no crimminal record and was a corporal honorably discharged from the Marines. His crime was being friends with and sitting on the front step of the house of someone who was arrested for selling drugs. They when they tazed him 5 times and he didnt move fast enough they shot him in the chest 3 times at point blank range.

They had no idea who he was, did not witness any crime, and had no warrant for his arrest.

No punnishment has been given to the responsible murderers, errr officers, and the whole thing is being investigated.

Not only did they kill him, they then lied to the Virginia State Police, so the Va police would get a warrant and search his Widdow's house which of course they tore appart looking for drugs or anything illegal, and they found nothing.

Its going to cost them a couple million at least.

If you or I did what they did we would be in jail on murder charges, and there are no special laws in Delaware that give police any special right to use deadly force beyond the laws that apply to ordinary citizens.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

both those plans have the same level of merit

and practicallity and warrant filing in the same place the round file


and master blaster you are right about the marine as far as i can tell if abnything new surfaces i'd appreciate you letting us know. i believe you are correct vis a vis the locals lying to the state cops. and as the previous poster mentioned we need to surrender in the failed war on drugs

 

[joab]

I HATE COPS I HATE COPS I HATE COPS
There now can I be part of the club.

Why is it that people like casandrasdaddy and me , that have actually be on the receiving end of that hard boot, are so much less critical of the police than those that haven't

Seriously, learn to not exaggerate.

Exactly what am exaggerating, my statement is fully supported by comments in this thread

You seem to subscribe to the "Some animals are more equal than others." philosophy.

You seem to subscribe to the "Lets pull any cliche we can think of out of our ass when we have nothing to say to back up our propaganda rich education" philosophy.
You gonna call me a sheeple next?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

lol

"Why is it that people like casandrasdaddy and me , that have actually be on the receiving end of that hard boot, are so much less critical of the police than those that haven't"

that our mistake/failing we are guilty of letting reallity constrain our posts. were we able to free ourselves we too could rant our outrage from the safety of our parents basement. i mean its been so long since the cops made me ditch a good stash that i'm not properly primed for the revolution. and you gotta remember that to todays kids some one being rude is a civil rights violation

 

[foob]

I HATE COPS I HATE COPS I HATE COPS
There now can I be part of the club.

Why is it that people like casandrasdaddy and me , that have actually be on the receiving end of that hard boot, are so much less critical of the police than those that haven't

Exactly what am exaggerating, my statement is fully supported by comments in this thread

You seem to subscribe to the "Lets pull any cliche we can think of out of our ass when we have nothing to say to back up our propaganda rich education" philosophy.
You gonna call me a sheeple next?

Lay off the caffeine dude.

 

[joab]

So you're not going to answer the question out to you huh?

What exactly are the exaggerations in my first post that you spoke of?

 

[Deanimator]

I HATE COPS I HATE COPS I HATE COPS
There now can I be part of the club.

"The organs of state security do not make mistakes."

Now, can I be part of your club?

I believe anyone familiar with Solzhenitsyn or Antonov-Ovseenko should recognize that quote...

 

[ilbob]

I HATE COPS I HATE COPS I HATE COPS

You should not hate individual cops, only the evil that LE has degenerated into in this country in some cases.

But in the end, you have to remember that collectively we are responsible for what has happened to us. We voted the politicians into office, and they are the ones that failed us, so it is really our own fault.

 

[foob]

So you're not going to answer the question out to you huh?

What exactly are the exaggerations in my first post that you spoke of?

I quoted your exaggeration in my first post, here it is again for the reading impaired.

But to the members here it is not a good enough compensation unless all those responsible have their lives ruined.

When did anybody advocate ruining their lives in the few posts before yours?

There was only 1 post that seemed extreme, the rest were just asking for either increased punitive damages/compensation or some jail time for the cops.

I personally would not be content until the offenders were named and shamed publicly, fired publicly, humiliated publicly, bankrupted themselves, and the local government had a nice gaping wound in their wallet to remember not to do that again by.