WW2 Rifles... WHICH TO BUY!?

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Do you like this?
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That's M44 fireball. ;)
The best part about it is that it's super-cheap to feed. Tons of fun to shoot, too!

I also have a 91/30 PU sniper and an Arisaka Type 99. The Type 99 is incredibly expensive to shoot (I don't reload), so if you go that route you'll get a lot less range time.
 
I would advise that you handle a Mosin before you buy one. The ergonomics are, how shall I say this, very different from modern firearms.
 
If I was looking at having only one WWII bolt gun representative, it would be a good ole USA 1903. Beautiful classic that is fun to shoot with ammo still readily available. If there are budgetary concerns or plans to acquire more in the future, I might would consider one of the other options (98 or SMLE probably).
 
I have owned/shot all those you mentioned, and my favorites are the ones with the best sights... the M1917, the M1903A3, and the SMLE No. 4. Receiver-mounted aperture sights and long sight radius make a huge difference on the practical accuracy you can squeeze out of the old war-horses... and shooting is a lot more fun when you are hitting what you are shooting at! Dinging silhouettes at 800 yards with a 1903A3 is a real thrill.

Of those, the Enfield is definitely cheaper, so it would probably be a good "starter" WWII rifle. If I were you, I'd be looking for a nice No. 4 Mk. 1, which shouldn't be too hard to find in the $350-500 range... in fact, here is one now: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=293887444
 
BUY ALL THE RIFLES!!! :D

Seriously though, my choices...

Mosin. Either a Finn M39, Russian M38 or M44. Cheap to shoot, big blast. More accurate than most give them credit for (especially the Finns). Wouldn't get rid of my Finns for anything.

Enfield No4. These rifles have a rear mounted peep sight that is nice. Cock on close action is very quick. 10 round mag feels like you are shooting forever. I can also work the bolt without moving my cheek from the stock, even with a proper "turkey neck" on the stock.

1903 A3. .30-'06 bolt action with peep sights, what's not to like? Guess we stole the Maser action and put useable sights on it.

Swiss K31. Straight pull action is very trick and fast too. You can still find strippers if you look. Top notch machining and fit. Surplus ammo is high quality.

But, of course, no WWII collection is complete without a Garand!

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How else you gonna keep the kids off your lawn?
 
Hello friends and neighbors // I'd say Vaarok hit it for me.

I always have a list of prices and info, on different Milsurps or other interests, downloaded onto a memory card for a small camera.
I also use the camera to verify small markings/cracks, take a pic then enlarge it on the spot.

"Trading up" is a art I have yet to master but it can be a fun learning experience.
Best thing to get is a bore gauge and learn how to use it.

My first was a 1953 Hungarian Mosin, their Revolution was in 1956 and I could not resist the stock even though it is so short I added a pad.
The stock on the Finnish Mosin is much longer.

Here are a few of mine so you can sort of compare side by side.
Good luck in the search.
Winchester, 1897
Smith Corona,1903A3, CMP
Remington, Model 11-- early 1940 -- Door gunner training tool
Springfield Armory, M1 Garand, Ogden rearsenaled, Danish return.
Underwood, M1 Carbine , CMP
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Savage Enfield
Swiss K31
Hungarian Mosin
Finnish Mosin
Spandu Mauser
S&W 1917 and Colt 1917

To me the wall hangers have a place too.
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I can always rebarrel the Japanese ,1915,Arisaka, and the Danzig, 1915 Mauser but even though the Swiss Vetterli has a good bore there is no reliable ammo.
 
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Nice looking Springfields Float Pilot.

Young Gun, out of the list of rifles that you mentioned I think those that combine good shooting qualities with good ammo availabilty are the Springfield, the Lee-Enfield and the 98 Mauser. You can't really go wrong with any of the three. Mosins lack the refinement of the others but are cheap to buy and shoot. Arisaka's are interesting and accurate but aren't the smoothest action and ammo is not always easy to find in quantity and usually expensive.
 
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I don't think anyone mentioned the M95 Steyr. Designed in 1895 in the former Austria-Hungarian Empire, used by Austria, Hungary, and I think Bulgaria in WWII, and only $100 right now on J&G Sales. I just ordered one from Budapest last night for $150 that's supposed to come with a matching bayonet (the $100 one doesn't come with a bayonet).

The rifle looks really different and interesting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd0kcuy7LPw). It's fed with en bloc clips kinda like a Garand, and it automatically ejects the clip when it's empty. It's a straight pull bolt rifle, and I've never even seen one of those.

I've already got a M1 Garand and a 91/30 Hex receiver Mosin. Not a rifle, but the M1895 Nagant is also very different and interesting, and IMHO incredibly fun to shoot. I picked one of those up in absolutely mint condition for $120 last year.
 
^ Very true, but I've already found a few ammo sources and I don't plan on shooting it much at all. I tend to shoot rimfire and collect centerfire.
 
You have heard just about every variant of advice, and all likely more sound than mine, but here are my two cents to confound further your selection.

Perhaps interest, budget or family constraints will prevent you, but the "buy em all" advice from THR-brethren comes from a shared experience, that once you have one, it tickles a historical passion that generally leads to expanding a collection: towards a gaggle of Mosins, admiring the simplicity of the action compared to the performance of the rifle, or expanding from the first nation to a fine sample of each nation, or developing a particular theme you follow.

What I enjoy about WWII rifles, is that in those times pre-globalisation, the individual characteristics of the nation, its culture and its people are fully appreciable in the weapon itself. And by firing and maintaining these weapons you connect to the history which we must not forget (if the lessons of wwi and ii are forgotten, in this time of crisis and technology we risk truly becoming lost). Today's weapons, like today's cars, have reached a fairly common technology based high level of performance. But while you have price determined feature and performance, they are imho a bit the same in the same calibre. However, those weapons, by the 30s to the late 40s had reached a technological state of the art, but still relying on an individual engineering fully incorporating the thought and soul of the culture from whence they sprung.

A Mosin is.... soooo Russian. Direct, uncompromising, powerful, simple, but its boom and recoil and flame (while punishing on the shoulder) are Tolstoy, Pushkin. Brash and poetic. Brutal and romantic. The simplicity of its trigger, bolt, bolt carrier, barrel bands, sight post, stock and stock assembly (even compared to my cheapo winchester 190 22 which is a pain to disassemble) are just awesome, in the literal sense, when you consider the incredible millions which were manufactured to win a war fought with volume. It connects you to the fact of history, and through that to history itself, and through that to mankind.

Hey, imho imho.

The Gustaf. Understated and yet so very efficient with its flat 6.5 cartridge. I lived in Sweden for 7 years and this rifle is... SWEDISH. Gorgeous elegant streamlined shape of the rifle, beautiful wood, technologically advanced action, practical visible safety. Information Transparency... Can you imagine a Russian or American rifle with detailed information stamped to the side about the quality of that particular rifle?? No way.

The Lee Enfield: am I pushing the stereotype to describe how unusual it is to note the asterisk denotes it was manufactured outside of Britain? It is simultaneously inclusive and accepting, like Britain, while also segregating and to some degree classist. Of course every country had varying manufacturing places and processes, and almost all sre identifyable, but I know of none as rational and systemstic as the Enfield's. And it is a polite firearm. I find it ergonomic, quick to sight, extremely fast to cycle, smooth, and powerful, and accurate for a battle rifle. All the qualities of an excellent and polite firearm. One cannot complain. The Enfield would not have been designed in Italy.

Absolutely I am somewhat tongue in cheek (only a little) and these are gross stereotypes, perhaps rationalized only after the fact. But for me these historical connection is a powerful urge. This was the war that defined modern Europe, the one that set the stage for the modern American empire, the one that fundamentally transformed the course of Asian history. The battle rifles that were tools of these massive transformations are so much more than just a rifle.

That said, here are my recommendatioins:

#1 The battle rifle of your country or ancestry, embodying the history of your culture. If that is a non-European linked pure "American"' then the Garand is a semi-automatic you should not discount. It was the most technologically advanced rifle of its kind and you will have ZERO regret at not having bought a bolt action. If you are of a different ethnic origin (chilean, argentine, persian, german, spanish, etc.) the Mauser had so many variants, you can probably find one that probably captures your history, and that one can take pride in. Or perhaps you just have a passion for a certainn country's history. But buy the rifle that sparks your interest and history. Get something you cann connect with.

#2 The kar98k: pinnacle of the mauser lineage, and the mauser is the pinnacle of the bolt action. I cannot find one in my budget, or I find one at the wrong time, so I do not speak from experience, but I still think every WWII collection starts and ends with the Mauser of Mausers

#3 The Enfield: Just a great rifle. 303 british is widely available and cheap, even in match cartridges. Yes, surplus ammo is exhausted which means it is not as cheap as others. I cannot comment on US ammo market. Here, it is my cheapest commercial rifle ammo. It is extremely fast and smooth, and something about the scope of Use from Western Canada to eastern Australia, with every part of dust and sea between, is tremendously significant from a historical perspective. It is still a battle rifle in use today!

#4 Mosin Nagant. Maybe this should be number 1. Read Antony Beevor's Stalingrad, and then his Berlin, watch the movie Enemy at the agates, then buy a Mosin and clean it and fire it and reflect othe courage suffering and glory of those millions.
Plus they are cheapmand fun to shoot and some of them can, despite all their simplicity be very very fine shooters.

#5 The Arisakas... I know nothing about them, but you mention two, so there is an interet. Why not start there?

ENJOY whatever you decide. Best of luck.
 
Get yourself a 91/30. We all like to think the supplies are limitless, but I bought my M44 for $79 just 5 or 6 years ago, now they go for $250. Almost anyone can scrape together the extra money for a 91/30, so make that your first, and it won't be very long at all before you can get your second.
 
I like them all. Some are better for playing show and tell...Some are good for burning up cheap ammo.

But ....Some like the Swedish small rings Mauser's are good for winning target matches.

For some odd reason our local NRA sponsored Mauser Match does not allow you to use the sling while standing... And I am getting old and shakey...

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It has often been said that regarding WWI, which is base rifles you are asking about:

The Germans went to war with a hunting rifle.
The Americans went to war with a target rifle.
The British went to war with a combat rifle.

So what do you want it for?

I have (or had) most of the rifles on the lists above.

For shooting at the range I really like my 1903A3. But if I had to count on a bolt gun in a fight it would be one of the SMLEs.

Mosin is cheap, and far from one of my favorites.
Arisaka is clunky, especially with all it's accessories.
MAS, did not fit me well.
Mausers are great guns, and available in a wide range of cartridge choices, 7mm Mauser is getting hard to find cheap.
M1917 is a solid gun, heavy and not as refined as the 03.
Carcano's just suck. (L.H.O. figured his out though)
Swedish Mauser is probably the most accurate gun I own with iron sights, but it's long and not very easy to maneuver around.
Got a carbine length SMLE by Ishapore in .308 that is real handy. Just not as sweet to shoot as the .303s.


JMHO
 
Get a 91 or 39 or 44 (or a chinese 53) now. Buy a buttload of ammo while you can. Do it NOW! Get it while the gettin's cheap. Shoot up ammo. Buy more.

Pick your next when you got the moola saved up, but know that the US milsurps seem to cost most and value has gone up fast and .30-06 might force you to ponder reloading. So... start there. Get a Garand thru CMP. An 03-A3. Catch as catch can there, but I prefer their sights to the original 03 (geezer eyes here).

The Swiss K31 and it's older brother 98/11... you want one of them. Maybe two. Trust me. Buy as much ammo (GP11) as you can. Then buy more.

I like the Swedes as do others. You'll be hard pressed to find a better made rifle, be it a 94 carbine (pricey) a 96, long and sweet, or the 38 Husky. Superb rifles, and in the 6.5SE the Norsemen got it right from the getgo. Float Pilot onced shared a photo or two of a Swede BAR, the Gustav Ksp 37 IIRC. big sigh... a boy can dream can't he?

If you reload, the SMLE family is soooo worth owning one each. Maybe two. If reloading is not your thing, you can get the Indian .308 version.

BRNO 98s. Well worth the dollar spent. 98/29 Persians can be nice. Very nice. Not much 8mm floating around these days, ala the .303 Brit, but it's out there.

You can always find sportorized versions of most bolt action milsurps, cheaper than their worth usually. Maybe already set up for optics. Rescue these when you can.

Pick a theme and focus perhaps. US military. Japanese (undervalued, but the ammo procurement issue is a very real PITA if you want to shoot). Axis or Allied. Reloading is good and in some cases a requirement unless you just want wall hangers.

But go cheap initially. You might very well end up like poor old Vaarok, who I hope, never has the need to move into other digs (BTW, V, love your floor plank background in your photos, sadly missing in your stacked photo. Probably couldn't carry all that point loaded weight, eh? ;))
 
Wow,, lots of good advice here. It's great to see so many that are interested in rifles with "soul". Milsurp rifles may get you interested in history- for example, a Finn M39 might make you curious about its use, and you'll eventually know the difference between the Winter War and the Continuation War....don't be afraid to get into reloading, as you'll need to if buying a Type 38, Type 99, Swiss 7.5, MAS 36, etc.
My first was a Swedish Mauser. Ammo is readily available. Low recoil and the Swedes were precision firearms, very pretty and very accurate. Not a bad choice at all.
Be careful, though...you are taking your first steps down a very addicting path. These rifles MULTIPLY (Some of the gang reading this will be chuckling and shaking their heads). What will you do when your accumulation reaches well into three figures? :what:
Most of us who have reached that point have had to take extraordinary measures....like building a gun room onto the house!
 
Full Japanese collections are relatively common, as are Japanese rifles. They're just expensive and a highly nuanced hobby, every bit as bad or good as a German K98 collection would be. Slightly cheaper, but equally rigorous demands of scholarship.
 
If it were me?

1903A3 (I don't like the sights on the 03)

K98 Mauser

I have bought and shot a lot of old Mil Surp rifle and I allways seem to come back to these two. Now if you had let me toss an auto loader in the mix? M1 (from the CMP) hands down first pick. Past the above I would look at.

M 1917

91/30 Negant (M44 or M38 would be my first choise)

With the SMLE's at the rock bottem. There not bad they just don't do anything for me.

WB
 
OP: What's your budget? Personally, I'd go with a 91/30 over an M44, if you wanted to go down the Mosin road. Just my personal opinion, but I enjoy firing the 91/30 much more than the M44.

In my order of preference, from what you suggested
  1. M1903A3
  2. SMLE No. 1 Mk. III or
  3. Kar 98k
  4. M44
  5. Arisaka T38
 
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