You Have $1,200....Which AR Would You GET and WHY?

[ugaarguy]

I never understood the point of having a flat top reciever "to mount optics" ... and then needing to use tall rings for a scope, or buy a seperate riser (expensive) for a red dot.

Extra high rings put the scope at the same height as the A2 sights. Mounting an optic to a carry handle requires a stock riser to maintain proper cheek weld. Barrel profile and handguard choice have far more to do with rifle weight and balance than A4/M4 upper vs. A2 upper.

 

[KYamateur]

The tests I have seen show the MBUS to be more tough and durable than the competition.

What makes you say they will "easily break if caught on something"?

I had a colt 6920 talo edition with magpul stuff and troy rails. I broke the rear sight crossing a fence. It had a small troy quad rail. I ended up selling the gun because I like the basic handguards. The rail is only worthwhile if you want a pistol grip in my opinion. I have nothing against higher end ARs, but DPMS,BM, and others are far from junk and 99% of AR owners will never shoot one enough to tell the difference. Personally I own a LMT Defender that is about 5 years old. I have shot maybe 30,000 rounds. I have picked up a couple of ARs here and there but ended up selling them and using the LMT with basic handguards. I do have the stock with cheek weld that LMT makes. On the other end of the spectrum, anything over $1500 is spent on what? At that point the gun should have a piston. A noveske is no way worth 2 or 3 times what a colt is. I defend lower end ARs because many people can't afford any other ones and they read message boards where everyone tells them the guns are crap. That isn't so. The guns may lack in a few areas but overall they are fine and the people that own them should not feel they have an inferior product. The components that most people argue about would only come into play when the rifles are fired several thousands of rounds. If the guns shoot alright out of the box they will be fine, if not they need to be sent back to the manufacturer to be fixed. I do admit that you get better QC with higher end companies. RRA however, has a tremendous reputation, and they do not use top quality components in most of their rifles.

 

[Warp]

I had a colt 6920 talo edition with magpul stuff and troy rails. I broke the rear sight crossing a fence. It had a small troy quad rail. I ended up selling the gun because I like the basic handguards. The rail is only worthwhile if you want a pistol grip in my opinion. I have nothing against higher end ARs, but DPMS,BM, and others are far from junk and 99% of AR owners will never shoot one enough to tell the difference. Personally I own a LMT Defender that is about 5 years old. I have shot maybe 30,000 rounds. I have picked up a couple of ARs here and there but ended up selling them and using the LMT with basic handguards. I do have the stock with cheek weld that LMT makes. On the other end of the spectrum, anything over $1500 is spent on what? At that point the gun should have a piston. A noveske is no way worth 2 or 3 times what a colt is. I defend lower end ARs because many people can't afford any other ones and they read message boards where everyone tells them the guns are crap. That isn't so. The guns may lack in a few areas but overall they are fine and the people that own them should not feel they have an inferior product. The components that most people argue about would only come into play when the rifles are fired several thousands of rounds. If the guns shoot alright out of the box they will be fine, if not they need to be sent back to the manufacturer to be fixed. I do admit that you get better QC with higher end companies. RRA however, has a tremendous reputation, and they do not use top quality components in most of their rifles.

What did you do, specifically, that broke the magpul sight? What makes you believe a different folding rear sight would have survived? What broke on the sight?

You don't have to spend more money to get a rifle better than a crap-o-rama like a Bushmaster or DPMS. All you have to do is buy a different/better rifle for the same price.

If you have to ask "is spent on what?" I am assuming you haven't research the KAC SR15.

 

[Scrubber3]

To the OP....
The prolific amount of ARs on the market today is because of the Sandy Hook ordeal. A lot of manufacturers got on the band wagon to try and turn a profit. Using low quality parts and metal, as well as cutting corners (not staking he gas key properly or at all. Getting the head spacing wrong in the chamber or messing up the feed ramps. Etc.) and skipping quality control measures.

My advice to you is to check and see what the manufacturers offer as far as building material, quality control, military specification adherence, etc. see which manufacturer comes closest to your budget while maintaining the things you want in your particular rifle. Once you find this balance, you can rest easy knowing you got the best bang for YOUR buck.

I run 2 Daniel Defense rifles (a DDM4V1 and a built at home V7equiv with a carbine length gas system) as well as one BCM Recce 14 mod 0 mk2. Although these rifles seem out of your budget new, I'm sure with a little research and patience you could find a great deal on a lightly used top tier rifle that someone bought during the panic and needs to unload so he can pay the credit card bill used to get it.

FWIW, the lowest I would ever go on an AR type rifle is Colt. With a couple S&W models I'd make an exception for. I use my rifles and depend on them to protect me without fail should I call upon them to do so. Quality, reliability, and performance mean everything at that point. Not the $200 you saved by buying a lesser built AR.

If you are just plinking and have no real use for the rifle other than that, then by all means buy whatever your friends brothers grandmas uncle cousins ex lovers teacher has. I'm sure it'll do just fine.

Hope this helps.

 

[C-grunt]

My Noveske N4 was under 1500 bucks and I purchased it directly from Noveske. The match grade barrel, Vltor stock, flush cup end plate, tango down rear sight, tango down grip and Smith Enterpise flash hider all add up to make it a better deal than the Colt.

That being said I actually ended up selling the Noveske and keeping the Colt. I liked the Colt better and decided to sell the Noveske to fund a 308 bolt gun instead of morphing it into a Recce rifle.

I also am not familiar with a 3500 dollar 5.56 Noveske. Some of their models are double the price of a Colt but I don't think any are triple.

 

[Warp]

To the OP....
The prolific amount of ARs on the market today is because of the Sandy Hook ordeal.

No, it isn't.

There was an extremely 'prolific amount' of ARs and manufacturers on the market long before that.

A lot of manufacturers got on the band wagon to try and turn a profit. Using low quality parts and metal, as well as cutting corners (not staking he gas key properly or at all. Getting the head spacing wrong in the chamber or messing up the feed ramps. Etc.) and skipping quality control measures.

My advice to you is to check and see what the manufacturers offer as far as building material, quality control, military specification adherence, etc.

Unfortunately this has been true for a very long time.

I run 2 Daniel Defense rifles (a DDM4V1 and a built at home V7equiv with a carbine length gas system) as well as one BCM Recce 14 mod 0 mk2. Although these rifles seem out of your budget new, I'm sure with a little research and patience you could find a great deal on a lightly used top tier rifle that someone bought during the panic and needs to unload so he can pay the credit card bill used to get it.

That would be awesome. Very good rifles.

FWIW, the lowest I would ever go on an AR type rifle is Colt. With a couple S&W models I'd make an exception for. I use my rifles and depend on them to protect me without fail should I call upon them to do so. Quality, reliability, and performance mean everything at that point. Not the $200 you saved by buying a lesser built AR.

Sounds legit.

Personally I'd draw the bottom line at a S&W M&P15 or a Spikes. I say that, but I have a Colt and a BCM and don't plan on anything "less" than that for whenever I can get another...though I may get sucked into one of the really good PSA deals eventually.

If you are just plinking and have no real use for the rifle other than that, then by all means buy whatever your friends brothers grandmas uncle cousins ex lovers teacher has. I'm sure it'll do just fine.

Hope this helps.

 

[Scrubber3]

I actually run a local class 3 gun store on the weekends. I've seen at least 10 new AR and parts manufacturers come into the market since sandy hook. (Could be coincidence I'll admit as we were scraping the bottom of the barrels to find stuff) And many that've been in the game start making exciting new accessories...lol

 

[henschman]

I'd build with PSA stuff... 16" pencil profile barrel, mid length gas, Aimpoint PRO optic.

 

[tomrkba]

Colt 6920 for $1099 from CDNN Investments. They should be in stock now (9/30/2013).

BCM Midlength Mod 0 should cost around $1075.

 

[hentown]

Friend of mine bought a RRA Predator Pursuit for just under $1k I'd bet a lot of $$ that nothing mentioned so far, regardless of price, will outshoot my friend's RRA.

You can get a RRA carbine for $849 @ Adco, when he has them in stock. Not likely you'll do any better.

 

[joed]

Go with the Colt 6920 with the magpul accessories, that's exactly what I did. Sure, you can build one cheaper but the pony will hold its value.

 

[meanmrmustard]

S&W Sport, and a ton of ammo.

 

[OilyPablo]

I will admit to one thing about higher end ARs. For $13-1400ish the Daniel Defense mid-length looks like it is a heck of a rifle

This is exactly why I bought my DD M4V3.

 

[MistWolf]

...On the other end of the spectrum, anything over $1500 is spent on what? At that point the gun should have a piston...

What AR does NOT have a piston??

 

[goon]

What AR does NOT have a piston??

The majority of AR's don't have a piston.

 

[MistWolf]

Sure they do
View attachment 679129

 

[OilyPablo]

That's a bolt

 

[MistWolf]

Heh! You're right. Seems most folks forget it's tail is also a piston

 

[wacki]

I gotta ask. What did PSA do right in order to earn so many recommendations? Seems like they have quite he can club here.

 

[OilyPablo]

PSA (pre Sandy Hook) had such screaming deals it would singe your eyebrows. They are still decent though. Ammo and shipping were always the lowest.

I bought my full middy 6.8 SPC II upper for $259 from PSA Made by FN. Works great and is very accurate.

 

[Warp]

I gotta ask. What did PSA do right in order to earn so many recommendations? Seems like they have quite he can club here.

Middling product quality at low prices.

Quality control isn't up to the level of the big boys and you never know how long it will take to receive what you ordered, but the price is right and their stuff is better than a very long list of other brands that cost as much if not more.

 

[Girodin]

Originally Posted by wacki View Post
I gotta ask. What did PSA do right in order to earn so many recommendations? Seems like they have quite he can club here.

PSA offers a lot of features and specs for the money. They often have very good deals. When they have their patrol rifle packages with a pro you get a rifle that has most things done right for about $600. One can easily add a rear extension of the proper material and a few things like that if he or she must. You have to read carefully their descriptions to know exactly what you are getting in terms of parts. If one is going to spend less than BCM/colt money then careful shopping at PSA is probably the next best choice.

their stuff is better than a very long list of other brands that cost as much if not more.

This, and a lot of them cost more, and often notably more.

 

[henschman]

OK, let me amend my answer to be more specific... I would get this http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...ngth-ultra-lightweight-premium-rifle-kit.html and the cheapest forged stripped lower I could find. There is a local shop here in OK selling Anderson Arms lowers for $65 plus tax. This would get you a better rifle than the Colt 6920 for under $700. Slap an Aimpoint PRO on it for around $400. Get a Magpul rear sight and some mags, and you should be close to your $1200 mark.

 

[Girodin]

This would get you a better rifle than the Colt 6920 for under $700.

In what way is it better? Because its mid-length? because it is a LW profile barrel?

Is the RE on the one you linked to 7075? Most of what I see from PSA is not, hence their carefully worded description that it is "mil spec diameter." That is not better than what is on the colt. You can argue it is not a significant difference or that one could easily enough swap it out. But there is no argument that it is better.

Does the PSA you linked to have an H buffer tube like a Colt? With the midlength gas either will run but I prefer how a H buffer shoots and again I think it would be hard to argue that the carbine was better.

How is the staking on the gas key? I have personally had 3 BCGs from PSA. One looked great and the other two were poorly staked.

It will not be better in the sense of either resale value or liquidity vis-a-vis a factory complete colt.

Also you need to calculate for a rear sight.

It might be a fine gun that serves one's needs well, but I'd like to hear the argument that it is better articulated more thoroughly.

As to buying the cheapest stripped lower. I'm sure this is based on the mantra that a lower is a lower. I used to think that. Then I started encountering out of spec lowers. Some mildly so, some seriously so. Also some lowers really do have added features. One may not want them or may not believe they are worth the price. Do I think one is paying a pretty serious premium for the crusader cross on a gen 1 Noveske lower, I sure do. Is a lower a lower. Not in my experience. That said, yeah find the cheapest lower of a reputable maker and you will do generally do fine.

I do think the recommendation is likely to yield a good shooter and one could change out the things one did not like and be money ahead. I still think the patrol combos are better values in that one has a complete rifle not a mix master and the gun comes in at $600. It also generally comes with a rear MBUS. If you did a fire sale on the PRO for $300 you'd be at $700. It does take watching PSA's site as they tend to sale out and then re-list and the rifle they use changes and so do the options.

 

[Warp]

OK, let me amend my answer to be more specific... I would get this http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...ngth-ultra-lightweight-premium-rifle-kit.html and the cheapest forged stripped lower I could find. There is a local shop here in OK selling Anderson Arms lowers for $65 plus tax. This would get you a better rifle than the Colt 6920 for under $700. Slap an Aimpoint PRO on it for around $400. Get a Magpul rear sight and some mags, and you should be close to your $1200 mark.

No, it wouldn't.

I could even point out some parts/materials where the Colt's would be demonstrably superior to the PSA.

Whether or not that difference is worth the price difference is up to each buyer to decide for themselves. Some buyers will decide that PSA method is a better VALUE.

But there is no way in heck the PSA will be a better RIFLE than the Colt.

The only thing I can even think of that some people might argue is 'better' about the PSA is that it's a mid length gas system, which is different than a carbine length. Some prefer each. I have one of each (carbine gas and mid length gas). The biggest difference, to me, is the handguard length using a fixed FSB.