"You need to break it in with 500 rounds of ammo"

[Zerodefect]

And that Wilson will be combat reliable AFTER you put 500 rounds through it. Not before.

I don't care what ya'll WANT to think. It doesn't change the facts on the ground. Pick up a brand new LesBaer, Wilson, even a Dan Wesson and rack it. Then pick one up with 5000 rounds through it. Guess which one is smoother and has less FRICTION. It's pretty obvious. Do you really want to carry a 1911 that hasn't proven it's worth by reliably shooting 500 rounds or more. Heck, Les Baers just about seize up on the LGS shelf when they're new.

1911's don't come with a perfectly polished smooth barrel and sliding parts. They do smooth out, As do many brands of pistols. My DW Valor cycles glass smooth now. It wasn't that good when new.

I won't even carry a Glock with less than 1000 rounds of use.

 

[Balrog]

And that Wilson will be combat reliable AFTER you put 500 rounds through it. Not before.

I don't care what ya'll WANT to think. It doesn't change the facts on the ground. Pick up a brand new LesBaer, Wilson, even a Dan Wesson and rack it. Then pick one up with 5000 rounds through it. Guess which one is smoother and has less FRICTION. It's pretty obvious. Do you really want to carry a 1911 that hasn't proven it's worth by reliably shooting 500 rounds or more. Heck, Les Baers just about seize up on the LGS shelf when they're new.

1911's don't come with a perfectly polished smooth barrel and sliding parts. They do smooth out, As do many brands of pistols. My DW Valor cycles glass smooth now. It wasn't that good when new.

I won't even carry a Glock with less than 1000 rounds of use.

I don't think people are understanding what this thread is supposed to be about. It is not about custom fit 1911s that are built to very tight tolerances. It is not about reliability testing before putting a gun into service. Nor is it about getting used to a gun before putting it into service.

It is about getting a new stock gun, shooting it, and discovering that it has a jam every magazine or so, and then being told by customer service that you need to shoot 500 rounds to break the gun in.

 

[tark]

Neither of which had been test-flown 500 times before being manned. In fact, the entire shuttle fleet (five ships) didn't reach 150 flights, let alone 500. None were test-flown unmanned.

What has this got to do with the question at hand?? Can you say apples and oranges?

 

[tark]

AMEN BROTHER...!!!!!!!!!!! I`m with yah on that...ridiculous having to shoot 500rds for break in. You hit the nail right on the head with your comment..!

And you show a lack of knowledge with that statement. I worked for Les Baer for 21 years, twenty two if you count the year when he was Custom Shop Director at Springfield Armory. The 3-500 round break in period is standard in the industry, for any pistol. Would you trust your life to a pistol you have never shot more than a few times? Wouldn't you want to put at least a couple of hundred rounds through it, to see of it is reliable?

You will encounter some real experts and masters of the discipline of the pistol in this forum.

I am NOT one of them, but they are out there.

Think carefully about your words before you speak them.

 

[tark]

I don't care what ya'll WANT to think. It doesn't change the facts on the ground. Pick up a brand new LesBaer, Wilson, even a Dan Wesson and rack it. Then pick one up with 5000 rounds through it. Guess which one is smoother and has less FRICTION. It's pretty obvious. Do you really want to carry a 1911 that hasn't proven it's worth by reliably shooting 500 rounds or more. Heck, Les Baers just about seize up on the LGS shelf when they're new.

Amen. Couldn't have said it better....

 

[Zerodefect]

I don't think people are understanding what this thread is supposed to be about. It is not about custom fit 1911s that are built to very tight tolerances. It is not about reliability testing before putting a gun into service. Nor is it about getting used to a gun before putting it into service.

It is about getting a new stock gun, shooting it, and discovering that it has a jam every magazine or so, and then being told by customer service that you need to shoot 500 rounds to break the gun in.

In that case, 500-2000 rounds just to get the shooter used to the new weapon. Spend some time to get the pistol, and yourself, running flawlessly before carrying it.

Kahr is a good example of a modern striker pistol that often needs a break in.

Smaller people gripping a Glock 19 wrong, too low, and using WWB ammo, will be greeted by malfs. Put that pistol in an experienced shooters hands and it runs fine. Glocks don't need any break in, but their owners may. (smooth hammer forged barrel, tiny little bent sheet metal rails)

 

[Balrog]

And you show a lack of knowledge with that statement. I worked for Les Baer for 21 years, twenty two if you count the year when he was Custom Shop Director at Springfield Armory. The 3-500 round break in period is standard in the industry, for any pistol. Would you trust your life to a pistol you have never shot more than a few times? Wouldn't you want to put at least a couple of hundred rounds through it, to see of it is reliable?

You will encounter some real experts and masters of the discipline of the pistol in this forum.

I am NOT one of them, but they are out there.

Think carefully about your words before you speak them.

So if I buy a new gun, say a standard model Kimber 1911, and notice it jams 1 round out of ever magazine consistently, you think I should still fire the gun 500 times before Kimber takes it back to take a look and see why that is happening?

I have a couple of Wilson Combat 1911s. In the first 500 rounds, there would rarely be a jam, usually the slide not going fully into battery, easily fixed with a slight tap on the back of the slide. After 500 rounds, that went away. But that is a whole lot different than a gun stove piping, or failing to eject, or the slide locking back prematurely once or twice out of every 8 rounds.

 

[Balrog]

In that case, 500-2000 rounds just to get the shooter used to the new weapon. Spend some time to get the pistol, and yourself, running flawlessly before carrying it.

Kahr is a good example of a modern striker pistol that often needs a break in.

Smaller people gripping a Glock 19 wrong, too low, and using WWB ammo, will be greeted by malfs. Put that pistol in an experienced shooters hands and it runs fine. Glocks don't need any break in, but their owners may. (smooth hammer forged barrel, tiny little bent sheet metal rails)

Hmm... been shooting 1911s, Glocks, and Sigs about 30 years, and really don't need to shoot 500 - 2000 rounds to get used to it. I think 200 rounds to ensure weapon function is really enough before I am willing to put it into service for carry.

 

[Cooter Boolit]

And you show a lack of knowledge with that statement. I worked for Les Baer for 21 years, twenty two if you count the year when he was Custom Shop Director at Springfield Armory. The 3-500 round break in period is standard in the industry, for any pistol. Would you trust your life to a pistol you have never shot more than a few times? Wouldn't you want to put at least a couple of hundred rounds through it, to see of it is reliable?

You will encounter some real experts and masters of the discipline of the pistol in this forum.

I am NOT one of them, but they are out there.

Think carefully about your words before you speak them.

Yes, i agree.... Think carefully about your words before you speak them.
tark tark tark...LOL... theres your problem, you worked 21yrs to long for Les Baer, so your stuck with your own personal mindset that these custom shop 1911`s are the greatest gun made and you`re defending it like its gold, and i get it. BUT, my experience tells me, that there are far better defense guns out there today than a 1911 design and that they DONT require 500rds to see if they work right or not. I do agree with you, and i CAN understand a 100rds or MAYBE even up to 200 rounds before you trust it, but 500+rds... pure BS for ANY gun. If that brand new gun dosen`t function 100% first time out, you bought a gun with problems.

Just so you dont think i hate 1911`s, i surely don't, i love the 1911`s, carried them on my hip for 20+yrs, and still own MANY 1911`s today. And guess what, none that i own EVER had to have 500rds to BREAK THEM IN either. Maybe people that are buying these high priced trophies are buying the wrong gun`s...lol.

Nobody, including ME, is an expert on any forum, we`re just people with our own opinions. What i`ve learned in 60+yrs, is if these so-called forum experts can`t dazzle you with brilliance, they`ll just baffle you with BS, and ALL the forums are full of them. At the end of the day, we ALL have our own opinion`s...so-called EXPERTS included. I`ve known a few gun experts thru the years, met many at shoots & shows, guess what, they dont bother much with forums. Those are the guys you want to listen to, not the armchair bandits on these forums. So get out to some pro shoots and pro shows, ask around, its amazing what you`ll learn. Forums, lol... they`re mainly just a place to hang out at pass out a bunch of BS, jokes, and tales.

 

[Cooter Boolit]

Hmm... been shooting 1911s, Glocks, and Sigs about 30 years, and really don't need to shoot 500 - 2000 rounds to get used to it. I think 200 rounds to ensure weapon function is really enough before I am willing to put it into service for carry.

EXACTLY....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tarosean]

Hmm... been shooting 1911s, Glocks, and Sigs about 30 years, and really don't need to shoot 500 - 2000 rounds to get used to it.

I'm guessing you've never put yourself to a test under timed shooting??

If you do nothing but shoot at targets in a stationary situation, I can buy that.

Once you start shooting in a dynamic situation. They all behave differently and take an adjustment period to get the best out of the guns and yourself.

Don't believe me? Go shoot competition and switch guns between stages. Find out just how humbling it it be...

 

[Balrog]

I'm guessing you've never put yourself to a test under timed shooting??

If you do nothing but shoot at targets in a stationary situation, I can buy that.

Once you start shooting in a dynamic situation. They all behave differently and take an adjustment period to get the best out of the guns and yourself.

Don't believe me? Go shoot competition and switch guns between stages. Find out just how humbling it it be...

So how do two Glock 19s behave differently? I believe what you are saying, but I am curious exactly how 2 of the exact same cookie cutter guns like a Glock would behave differently?

Anyway, isn't that also a little off track from what the thread is about?

 

[tarosean]

If that brand new gun dosen`t function 100% first time out, you bought a gun with problems.

I don't agree with that either.. there is a big difference between 1 failure in 500 and 10 failures in 50.

 

[Balrog]

I don't agree with that either.. there is a big difference between 1 failure in 500 and 10 failures in 50.

I agree with that. This thread is about new guns that jam 1 time out of 8 and the customer service people tell you to shoot it 500 times to break it in. If it is failing that much, my opinion is that something is wrong with it. My Wilsons would have some slight problems always going fully into batter for the first few hundred rounds, but that is a different matter entirely.

 

[tarosean]

So how do two Glock 19s behave differently? I believe what you are saying, but I am curious exactly how 2 of the exact same cookie cutter guns like a Glock would behave differently?

Your statement was "1911s, Glocks and Sigs".. Now you want to build an argument for two 19's?
my wifes gen3 19c has a different grip than my x gen4 19. so you have to adjust for that, recoil will slightly different too as one is ported. It takes me a huge adjustment to go from my gen4 g35 to my gen4 g34 as one has a RDS mounted so it has to be held lower than I would typically hold a gun. so those are a couple of examples..

If it is failing that much, my opinion is that something is wrong with it.

I would sell it if your that unhappy... Have you tried different mags? perhaps your Wilsons?

 

[Robert101]

I'm going to side with the general statement of if it (gun) doesn't run well new it has a problem that needs fixing. Some guns do require some feed ramp polishing, extractor adjusting, and other minor work. To me that indicates the manufacturer should have finished the assembly with it tuned and running in order. I've had a 1911 or two that needed a trip back to the nest. Never had a Glock that needed fixing. I like all my different types of guns so don't think I'm partial to any particular make or model. I'm just giving my experience with one style verses another. This opinion has nothing to do with my learning how to shoot a gun. I'll conclude my pontificating by saying that if any of your guns need 500 rounds to run right, you bought an unfinished gun.

 

[Balrog]

Your statement was "1911s, Glocks and Sigs".. Now you want to build an argument for two 19's?
my wifes gen3 19c has a different grip than my x gen4 19. so you have to adjust for that, recoil will slightly different too as one is ported. It takes me a huge adjustment to go from my gen4 g35 to my gen4 g34 as one has a RDS mounted so it has to be held lower than I would typically hold a gun. so those are a couple of examples..



I would sell it if your that unhappy... Have you tried different mags? perhaps your Wilsons?

OK, I gotcha now. Yea, I can see how you need to get used to different versions of Glocks, but I have 3 G19s set up exactly the same way, and if I got a 4th I don't think I would need 2000 rounds to figure out how to shoot it.

I mainly only use Wilson 47D's, but this gun was jamming regardless of magazine. Sent it to Kimber, it came back with same problem, eventually sold it.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

there is a big difference between 1 failure in 500 and 10 failures in 50.

That really sums it up for me. It needs to run pretty well out of the box, but growing pains are to be expected. It's not the same as an obvious reoccurring function problem from an out of spec part, poor finishing, or design flaw.

If the manufacturer states outright that the gun needs some rounds through it before expecting utter reliability, I don't see how we can fault the manufacturer. If the manufacturer makes no statement of that need, the gun fails to function properly, and the manufacturer then tells the purchaser to just keep shooting it to break it in, as is the actual topic at hand, then I think the owner of that gun has a right to be upset.

All right y'all. Tear it apart.......

 

[tarosean]

If the manufacturer states outright that the gun needs some rounds through it before expecting utter reliability, I don't see how we can fault the manufacturer. If the manufacturer makes no statement of that need, the gun fails to function properly, and the manufacturer then tells the purchaser to just keep shooting it to break it in, as is the actual topic at hand, then I think the owner of that gun has a right to be upset.

I've never owned a Kimber so I had to google... A quick perusal brings up the following from their site..

http://www.kimberamerica.com/media/wysiwyg/manual-download/1911-Full-Size-Manual_11-2015.pdf

 

[tark]

So if I buy a new gun, say a standard model Kimber 1911, and notice it jams 1 round out of ever magazine consistently, you think I should still fire the gun 500 times before Kimber takes it back to take a look and see why that is happening?

Well, in that case I would at least fire a hundred rounds or so to see if there is any improvement. If there is, keep shooting, it will probably get better. If there isn't, send it back. Always remember to try different mags.

 

[tark]

tark tark tark...LOL... theres your problem, you worked 21yrs to long for Les Baer, so your stuck with your own personal mindset that these custom shop 1911`s are the greatest gun made and you`re defending it like its gold, and i get it. BUT, my experience tells me, that there are far better defense guns out there today than a 1911 design and that they DONT require 500rds to see if they work right or not. I do agree with you, and i CAN understand a 100rds or MAYBE even up to 200 rounds before you trust it, but 500+rds... pure BS for ANY gun. If that brand new gun dosen`t function 100% first time out, you bought a gun with problems.

Not really a mindset.... And I think there are lots of 1911s as good as Baer's or maybe better... Believe it or not, I'm not really a pistol guy at all. 1911s are nice, but I would choose a Glock for my carry gun. Stupid simple, nothing to remember or forget to do. Pick it up, point, pull the trigger and it goes bang. Rifles are my bag. (My God, can you tell that I grew up in the Hippie Era!!)

I rarely buy new guns, but most all I did buy had a problem or two before they worked right.

 

[tark]

Nobody, including ME, is an expert on any forum, we`re just people with our own opinions. What i`ve learned in 60+yrs, is if these so-called forum experts can`t dazzle you with brilliance, they`ll just baffle you with BS, and ALL the forums are full of them. At the end of the day, we ALL have our own opinion`s...so-called EXPERTS included. I`ve known a few gun experts thru the years, met many at shoots & shows, guess what, they dont bother much with forums. Those are the guys you want to listen to, not the armchair bandits on these forums. So get out to some pro shoots and pro shows, ask around, its amazing what you`ll learn. Forums, lol... they`re mainly just a place to hang out at pass out a bunch of BS, jokes, and tales.

AMEN to that!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've never owned a Kimber so I had to google... A quick perusal brings up the following from their site..

Interesting.

 

[tark]

Yes, it IS interesting.... As I have stated most manufacturers want you to shoot at least a couple hundred rounds through the pistol before you judge its reliability. And most will say so in their instructions.

 

[BSA1]

So if I buy a new gun, say a standard model Kimber 1911, and notice it jams 1 round out of ever magazine consistently, you think I should still fire the gun 500 times before Kimber takes it back to take a look and see why that is happening?

KIMBER.

WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL US THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE? It would have saved 4 pages of discussion.

Image someone with a lot of experience with 1911's buying a Kimber on purpose.