If a merchant is collecting sales tax from customers in another state, they had better have a legal storefront or operation in that customer's state. A merchant is NOT legally required, or legally able to collect state sales tax from a state that he does not operate or PAY sales tax in.
You Won't Believe Who Is Ruining Gun Collecting
- Thread starter 45Broomhandle
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evan price
Member
Well, I really don't agree with anything in the title of this OP. Nobody is ruining gun collecting according to what I have read. It seems the OP didn't understand or know the value of what they were doing. Whenever you buy anything mail order or online auction or wherever, there are costs involved with assuming possession; be they shipping & handling charges, buyers' premiums, doc fees, etc. A savvy buyer has to first know exactly what the item is really worth and then add up the charges & fees and decide if the "deal" is really a "deal" after all.
So, is this pistol worth more than $185 if you were to try to sell it face-to-face locally? If so, you still got a good deal.
I don't see any problem with those fees except for perhaps maybe the $32.50 gun handling charge, but if that includes UPS from an FFL to your FFL that's not out of line, and $30 for a FFL receiving charge is not out of line with what most FFL's charge for booking the gun.
So how are they "Ruining gun collecting" anyway?
So, is this pistol worth more than $185 if you were to try to sell it face-to-face locally? If so, you still got a good deal.
I don't see any problem with those fees except for perhaps maybe the $32.50 gun handling charge, but if that includes UPS from an FFL to your FFL that's not out of line, and $30 for a FFL receiving charge is not out of line with what most FFL's charge for booking the gun.
So how are they "Ruining gun collecting" anyway?
Robert Hairless
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asknight:
Really? The person who started this thread lives in the State of Florida and his state's Department of Revenue doesn't agree with what you said.
In fact its consumer information entitled "Have You Bought or Received Merchandise from Out of State or through the Internet?" states that a Florida resident who does not pay sales tax to the seller on an out-of-state Internet purchase must pay a use tax to Florida. A Florida resident who does pay sales tax to the seller on an out-of-state Internet purchase does not pay the the use tax to Florida. The assumption, of course, is that an out-of-state transaction made by a Florida resident is subject to the sales tax in the other state.
Nowhere does Florida's Department of Revenue say what you say. It doesn't say anything about a requirement that the seller must "have a legal storefront or operation in that customer's state."
Interestingly, the example given by the Florida agency is a purchase made "from a mail-order catalog company located in Georgia. The Georgia company charges you a lawfully imposed Georgia sales tax of 4%. The item purchased is shipped to you at a Florida location. You must pay an additional 2% Florida use tax."
Coincidentally, the person who started this thread not only lives in Florida but made a purchase that was transacted in Georgia.
Is there perhaps a possibility that you're wrong?
The original poster evidently is unhappy with the bargain he himself made. It's not unusual to have buyer's remorse, and unfortunately it's common for some people to blame others for decisions they later regret. Fortunately, there is the Internet: it provides an outlet for everyone to shift the blame for everything, in the sure and certain knowledge that there are other unhappy people who will provide sympathy and support for any complaint.
Really? The person who started this thread lives in the State of Florida and his state's Department of Revenue doesn't agree with what you said.
In fact its consumer information entitled "Have You Bought or Received Merchandise from Out of State or through the Internet?" states that a Florida resident who does not pay sales tax to the seller on an out-of-state Internet purchase must pay a use tax to Florida. A Florida resident who does pay sales tax to the seller on an out-of-state Internet purchase does not pay the the use tax to Florida. The assumption, of course, is that an out-of-state transaction made by a Florida resident is subject to the sales tax in the other state.
Nowhere does Florida's Department of Revenue say what you say. It doesn't say anything about a requirement that the seller must "have a legal storefront or operation in that customer's state."
Interestingly, the example given by the Florida agency is a purchase made "from a mail-order catalog company located in Georgia. The Georgia company charges you a lawfully imposed Georgia sales tax of 4%. The item purchased is shipped to you at a Florida location. You must pay an additional 2% Florida use tax."
Coincidentally, the person who started this thread not only lives in Florida but made a purchase that was transacted in Georgia.
Is there perhaps a possibility that you're wrong?
The original poster evidently is unhappy with the bargain he himself made. It's not unusual to have buyer's remorse, and unfortunately it's common for some people to blame others for decisions they later regret. Fortunately, there is the Internet: it provides an outlet for everyone to shift the blame for everything, in the sure and certain knowledge that there are other unhappy people who will provide sympathy and support for any complaint.
Exactly what bothers you? The $15 service fee? The $32 shipping and handling fee? The $8 sales tax? The $30 transfer fee? Except for the sales tax the other fees are probably fixed amounts. When buying by mail or over the internet you have to factor in the expenses to determine if you got a deal or not.
Is this hurting collecting? No, at least not in my opinion. If you are collecting guns in the $100 price range you should make the effort to just shop locally because transfer and shipping fees are not going to be much cheaper.
Is this hurting collecting? No, at least not in my opinion. If you are collecting guns in the $100 price range you should make the effort to just shop locally because transfer and shipping fees are not going to be much cheaper.
I think you need to read your bidders agreement more fully next time, the reason you got that rifle for 100 is that everyone else read their copy of the agreement and decided that it was a 150 dollar gun and the added cost made anything over 75 dollars not worthwhile.
22-rimfire
Member
I believe that technically you are responsible to pay the FL sales tax for an item purchased out of state when no sales tax is collected. Most don't, but that does not change the law. States miss this revenue because they have few methods to know that a sale has been completed and collect the tax. This is true of TN where I live, so I assume it is the same for FL.
As internet sales increase, I expect to see a method developed to collect the sales tax at the time of the sale. Now, most of us view the shipping charge as our "sales tax" and that may offset somewhat the in-state tax if the item was purchased locally.
I see no reason why this is hurting gun collecting. I personally prefer to view and handle a firearm prior to purchase, hence I don't generally purchase via the internet. The good thing about internet auction sales of firearms is that the seller usually gets a fair market price for the item and the final price is frequently higher than if sold at the local gun show because the seller is tapping into a national price structure and market.
Lets look at the recent gunbroker sale of a As-new blue Colt 2.5" 22 Diamondback. Final price was $4824. The seller was from CT and probably got far more $ than if the gun was sold at the local gunshop on consignment or at a gunshow[much more restricted potential audience]. The buyer paid what appears to be a huge price for an uncommon firearm for (I presume) their collection. But, the likelihood of the buyer and the seller being connected for a possible sale is remote if it were not for the internet auction site. Both buy and seller win in this case regardless of whether or not you agree on the final price as being a bargain or reasonable. Prior to internet sales, folks like RL Wilson (broker) would hook the buyer and seller up on collector pieces for a fee. I won't comment on his methods.
As internet sales increase, I expect to see a method developed to collect the sales tax at the time of the sale. Now, most of us view the shipping charge as our "sales tax" and that may offset somewhat the in-state tax if the item was purchased locally.
I see no reason why this is hurting gun collecting. I personally prefer to view and handle a firearm prior to purchase, hence I don't generally purchase via the internet. The good thing about internet auction sales of firearms is that the seller usually gets a fair market price for the item and the final price is frequently higher than if sold at the local gun show because the seller is tapping into a national price structure and market.
Lets look at the recent gunbroker sale of a As-new blue Colt 2.5" 22 Diamondback. Final price was $4824. The seller was from CT and probably got far more $ than if the gun was sold at the local gunshop on consignment or at a gunshow[much more restricted potential audience]. The buyer paid what appears to be a huge price for an uncommon firearm for (I presume) their collection. But, the likelihood of the buyer and the seller being connected for a possible sale is remote if it were not for the internet auction site. Both buy and seller win in this case regardless of whether or not you agree on the final price as being a bargain or reasonable. Prior to internet sales, folks like RL Wilson (broker) would hook the buyer and seller up on collector pieces for a fee. I won't comment on his methods.
Scoupe
Member
22rimfire said:
In Kansas I believe they call it a "destination tax". It hasn't been enforced very well and I haven't been charged it for gun transfers yet, but last week the governor issued a statement that they will be stepping up enforcement of it. Not sure how they intend to collect for the stuff I buy that comes direct to the house though.
As for the OP, on one hand you decry the ruination of the hobby by this one experience, but on the other hand give a laundry list of many other positive on-line gun deals. I tend to agree with the posters saying "do your homework" before dealing with auction houses. You learned it the hard way and certainly sound like a man that can apprectiate a good lesson. I also agree with the posters that believe internet commerce has done good things for gun sales and collecting on the whole.
Bottom line, as always in firearms deals, "buyer beware".
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