Youngsters With Guns

[rust collector]

It is interesting to note that the trend in many states which have hunter safety programs is away from live firing because of the liability. I usually wind up at the handgun station during our huntsafe field day, but have been impressed with the way the kids have handled the most dangerous of firearms. We have three firing points working on 7 yard paper targets, but only one 11-12 year old shooting at each point, and an instructor working with each at every step of the way.

We begin each session with a clear explanation of the reason handguns are so dangerous and a clear statement of the essential safety precaution of muzzles downrange at all times. Special needs children usually have special parents who are very helpful, but without basic understanding and an ability to follow instruction, it is explained that training will have to wait for a setting with less distraction.

On range days the public shooting range is reserved for that purpose. The last thing we need is mag dumps in the next lane over. I agree with the OP that leaving the area is probably the only effective way of removing the risk from a group of excited kids.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Kids make me nervous in general, but I don’t have any of my own.

They’ve got to learn some way though.

 

[Buzznrose]

...
Again, I never saw a muzzle point in my direction but I could picture that one bad moment in my mind. I know children and their sometimes hyper behavior especially when they are excited but with a gun in their hands, I got very nervous and observant. It was in my mind, right at that limit that I should get nervous and save myself before that one (possible) bad second. My question: was it the children having their normal hyper, jerky excitement or this old man being overly cautious and judgmental?

Maybe it was both...

When I see someone...anyone...behaving badly/unsafely one time with a gun, I'm jaded towards not trusting them. It takes a split second of carelessness to take a life...there are no do overs.

I'm all for taking kids to the range, but the 4 Rules must be taught in advance and strictly enforced until a new shooter knows them

 

[Buzznrose]

Firearms sessions with children needs to be done one-on-one. The seriousness of what is transpiring must be stressed.

Our society seems to be drifting away from teaching children serious behavior, concentration, and single function purposed behavior. Adults suffering from short attention spans and behavior punctuated by distractions such as cellphones and other electronic devices, can't be expected to effectively teach young people how to behave. I'm talking about these kids' parents, not the range instructors.

Place those kids into a loosely supervised atmosphere, (finding people to work a range with kids is challenging) and kids excited to get to the punch line of shooting the gun, and outside observers are less than confident about what they see.

Filter all of this through an adult's eyes that is not used to child behavior anyway, and who has seen the effects of bullets on human tissue.

I'd be packing my gear, and coming back another day, also. My 2cents.

Great post Jeff!

I do take kids (generally 8 years old is my lower age limit) and new shooters (adults can be very unsafe and worse!) to the range, sometimes up to 3 at a time. I make everyone watch this video, regardless of age, before every session:



I only let one person shoot at a time...and I do NOT shoot myself. I ALWAYS bring .22's to either begin with, or for the entire session. I give each shooter one magazine of the gun we are shooting. I teach them how to load it, and they are responsible to maintain that magazine as long as we are shooting the gun that it goes in.

One at a time, I bring the shooter with their magazine up to the line, and they pick up the empty/safety on/action open firearm, check it, do a function check, make is back tot eh condition they picked it up in, and then they can load it and we can move on to shooting. I do this at least 4-5 times with every shooter. They shoot until their magazine is empty. Then, they clear and make the gun safe like they found it, and move off the line so the next shooter can come up. If I only have one new shooter, we only use one magazine, and go through these steps just the same.

I do not use single shot guns or revolvers for new shooters. All my beginner guns are semi-auto Rugers, both pistols and rifles. But I'm over their shoulder whenever they have a gun and are shooting, until they have convinced me without a doubt they know what's going on and how to be safe.

Just how I do it...YMMV. Be safe, and be a Shooting Ambassador!

 

[Obturation]

I have seen worse at the range but I would have left too. I saw a guy one time show up with a Henry big boy, showed up with the gun still in its box (obviously brand new) didn't know how to load, unload or show a clear chamber. At one point the mag tube wasn't latched and sprung about 6 feet down range, the guy crawled under the bench and down range while the range was hot to retrieve his mag tube and proceeded to muzzle everyone there trying to figure it all out. He was kicked off the range and mad about.
Kids are kids, they only know what they're taught. If they're hyper they need to be calmed or removed and try again when they can learn. It should be fun but not play time.

 

[herrwalther]

Since getting out of the military, I have come to accept that "safe" means a whole lot to different people. I have watched a 12ga haphazardly shoot (thanks to bubba on the trigger) and damage a target runner at an indoor range without even a blink from the RSO. Part of me says if the muzzle wasn't flagging you, yours, or anything you care not to have a hole in it (your property or not) then it isn't a big deal. There is also nothing wrong with leaving a range you do not feel safe at.

 

[doubleh]

I'm into great grandkids now and recently had three at the range with me. Only one kid at a time gets to shoot with grandpa at their shoulder to "gently" instruct them in safety if needed. Each shooting session also starts with going over the safety rules but they are kids with a kid's need for correction at times. They don't get to carry a gun around at all. It's strictly one at a time at the bench or standing. If they aren't shooting they don't touch a gun. I have packed up and left a couple of times when a family was set up close to me on the firing line and weren't observing safety very closely. Both times the parents were just as bad as the kids. I would rather waste a range trip than take a chance on getting shot.

 

[buck460XVR]

Having kids and grandkids of my own and having a private shooting range, I have had many opportunities to give kids an introduction to firearms and to let other experienced youth shoot. The rules are always the same.....one loaded gun per bench and each bench has it's own responsible adult(we only have two). All others remain behind the firing line. Loaded guns are on the bench pointed downrange until they are to be shot. There is never any horseplay. Now in the OP, we are not told if the guns that were being waved around were loaded or not. Still, because of diligence, we always assume they are. I too would have gotten nervous in the OP's scenario, and may have done the same as he and gave up on the idea of shooting myself. I may have tho, offered to assist, after explaining I have been a Hunter Safety instructor for many years, and if the help was accepted, may have helped the scenario become a safer experience that day and in the future.

 

[jar]

Now in the OP, we are not told if the guns that were being waved around were loaded or not. Still, because of diligence, we always assume they are.

Rule One: Always assume a gun is loaded until YOU have personally verified that it is empty. Then check again.

 

[Meeks36]

I only let mine shoot single shots. Or load one at a time. It's a pita but I believe it keeps everyone safe. And I only take them with my wife. She watches and loads one I do same for the other.

 

[jjadurbin]

This was clearly a mismanaged and dangerous situation you were correct to leave and I would voice my disgust with those adults in charge.

 

[jonb32248]

I have 8 grand kids and 7 are boys. I've taken two to a local range when they were here. The range has rules that only two people are allowed in the booth at a time so it was easy to control them even though the kids aren't out of control. But it comes down to the kid themselves.The two were 7 and 10 at the time and both did very well and handled the 22 pistols fine. now at another time with two other of my grandson's with a CO2 pistol in y son's back yard his oldest son handled and shot the gun just fine but as soon as I gave his yonger brother the pistol he pointed it deliberately at his brother. I immediately took it away and that was the end . He was clearly not mature to shoot anything. So it depends on the kid.

 

[Smoke]

I've never liked 'public' ranges. Adults are often just as bad as kids, as is indicated by your scenario. The kids didnt know better, the adults should have shut down any over enthusiasm by the kids.

I taught my kids to shoot one on one. Always emphasizing muzzle discipline. Over and over and over.
My kids are older now 17 and 20. I have had older shooters comment on my kids muzzle discipline, and my kids notice others or their lack of.

 

[Thibaut]

Kids make me nervous in general, but I don’t have any of my own.

They’ve got to learn some way though.

Same here. I am never fully at ease at any range and I hate when a bunch of people are waiting to enter because I see and hear some of them and the last thing I want is to be with them with a gun in their hand. I think it is wonderful that some kids are afforded lessons on their home turf. That is ideal to me. The alternative to that is me hoping that they have 150% control over their kids if they're at the range with me; not to mention that I hope they know what they are doing, as well. It is serious business all the time.

 

[Gumby0961]

There is no room for "hyper" at the range with children. If they aren't able to give their full attention to rifle and where its pointed they are not ready for shooting. I was eight when I started, but my dad unrolled me and my brother in a basic rifle course. We learned safety and basic skills in a class room before going into the range and shooting. Being in a class room will tell you whether the child is mature enough to focus on safely being able to be trusted on the range with live ammo.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Any student, age 12 to 99, who did NOT bring their OWN fire arm to class means there will ONLY BE ONE FIREARM on the range at a time that is NOT in my own holster. 1 to 1 training if there are1 or 5 of them, there will be only one weapon getting used and shot on the range and they will all take turns while I have 1 to 1 eye ball to eye ball contact.

 

[jmorris]

My question: was it the children having their normal hyper, jerky excitement or this old man being overly cautious and judgmental?

I think you were just observant.

I often have to correct adults firearm handling behavior because no one taught them as children. It’s not just kids, we are all ignorant until we know better.

Often why some of the first things I teach people about firearms is how destructive they can be. Poking holes is a piece of paper is fun and gives one a way to quantify their marksmanship but doesn’t represent the potential dangers of the energy involved.

 

[bassjam]

I'm just thankful that I can shoot .22's in the side yard with the kids before I take them to the range. My stepdaughter needed a lot of "coaching" before she was mindful of the muzzle, her trigger finger, and the safety. When she turned 10 I noticed a great improvement, and now at 12 I know I can let her shoot by herself at the bay/bench next to me while I also shoot.

I have 3 younger kids and it's too soon to tell how they'll be with gun safety; hopefully they got a little less of their mother's inattentiveness than my stepdaughter has.