Your not going to believe this, that 700 I've been dealing with

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gamestalker

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Well, weeks later, lots of tuning, load development, trips back and forth to the gun smith, and so on.

Last trip to the range. last week end, it finally started shooting sub moa, but some what sporadically, some good tight groups, then one odd flier. But as time has gone on the groups just kept getting better, and better, which lead me to believe that we were getting it tuned better and better. Well, today while cleaning it up for the next trip to the range this coming weekend, I noticed something about the muzzle brake, the cleaning patch was catching on it. Upon closer inspection I saw where the bullets were grazing the brake. In fact, and I assume, early on they were actually make more than just grazing contact, and had actually put a pretty good groove where they were hitting it. By appearance and after taking some measurements, it looks like about .001" + of contact with the bullet. The metal was piled up and some copper jacket was deposited in the groove as well, obvious it was being contacted. So apparently the last 150 or so rounds have cleared a path for the bullets to get by with only light grazing, thus the slow improvement in groups over time.

So rather than take it back for the third time to this well esteemed gun smith, over 40 yrs. of positive experiences. I just went ahead and cleaned up the bad spot in the brake with some compound, and suitable fitting tools to maintain a true round exit hole. I ended up increasing it by .005" just to make sure we will not have any further contact with the bullets.

BTW, does anyone know what an acceptable clearance should be for a brake? This is a 300 Win, mag, so obviously .308" is the projectile size, the exit hole ID was originally .328" allowing .010" clearance, is that enough? I would imagine so, if the brake is aligned square that is, which it obviously isn't. I increased the ID by .005" just to make sure we don't encounter any more impacts.

GS
 
If it's far enough off for bullets to be hitting it?

I'd take it off and throw it away.

Recoil be damned.
You might be really surprised what it will do without it!

rc
 
You know what RC, I couldn't agree with you more! Seriously, this rifle is going to be a hunting rig, who in the heck would want a break on a hunting rig anyway? I can't wait to hear his reaction to the deafening effects, as I will still have my audible function, when he returns from his elk hunt. Some guides, in fact many, won't let clients use a break, for that reason alone.

Ever since my Son bought this rifle it has been a nightmare, an absolute test of my patience. From what I gather, he had that break put on before even shooting it for the first time, and as you are aware from my ranting posts about this problem child, accuracy has been anything but acceptable, that is until the break eventually and apparently got shot out to fit. If it had been installed correctly, the .020" bore diameter of the brake should have been just fine, but I've also learned that .020" (.328") is rather considered a minimum, so going .005" over, (.332") shouldn't be a problem.

If he doesn't pull that piece of junk off, I'm gonna take it off and accidentally drop a sledge hammer on it 15 or 20 times.

Thanks again for your time, and expertise RC.
 
Boy, that thing has been a pain in your behind. But if you want to know what the clearance should be mic the hole in the muzzle brake, then mic the bullet and subtract and divide answer it in half. That would be clearance on each side of the hole.

It makes me wonder if the holes through the brake are out of straight with the threads or if the threads on the barrel are not threaded perfectly straight, or if the threaded hold in the brake is out of true center with the exit path.

My first reaction would be to take the brake off also and do evil torturous things to it, but in the end I would want to know who dropped the ball, the company that built the brake or Remington.
 
I've been thinking about that. I don't know what kind of a test you could do to even prove which was wrong.

Maybe the best thing to do is give the brake to the metal gods, like you suggested and move on to something fun for a change instead of torturing your self any more with this thing.
 
So is it the brake or was the barrel threaded improperly?
I hate shooting beside someone with a break on their rifle but understand why they want one.
 
Gamestalker, I think an acceptable clearance for that muzzle brake should be depositing it in the next satellite launch lol. Been following your ordeal since you began posting and I have to say that you have earned the JOB award for patience and tenacity. Your son owes you hugely.
 
I have the same riffle from the 90s and added a break. In the stand one shot is no biggie. But at the range the break is a must have for multiple rounds. That thing will stomp you in the ground around round 15.
 
Aside from the original broken scope issue, if the gun can shoot that good with a misaligned muzzle brake it must have been pretty darned good before the smith messed it up. I'd ditch the brake and shoot it. If recoil is too much, get a better recoil pad or download a little.

** BTW have you checked to make sure the brake isn't moving from recoil? Some slop in the threads could let it wander enough to give sporatic contact.
 
No, it's not moving around at all.

All of the impacts are in the same spot, nothing random at all.

Funny thing is, the scope was probably the fault of the gun smith as well. He had to remove it to do the work, and then apparently failed to properly torque the rings back down. The result was the scope was getting slammed into the back of the bolt shroud when fired.

One thing for certain, this gun smith will never see another job from me, or anyone I know, if I have any say in it. He should have checked his work, if he had, he would have seen the problems before handing the rifle over to the customer. And then when he removed the brake to crown the barrel, that I might add he claims he never cut, he would have seen the evidence of the bullets contacting the brake at that time also.

Stick a fork in me, I'm done!

Thanks to all!

GS
 
I just shot a 300 win last night that had a break on it. It made the recoil feel very nice, but standing next to the owner of the gun while he shot it, was a horrible experience.

In some way's I would really like to put a break on my 300 win, but I don't think its worth it.
 
Today I took it back out to the range, this time I insisted on having my Son shoot it once without ear plugs, just to see if it's worth the trade off. Actually, he said it wasn't bad at all, so I guess this particular break much be vented just right or something?

BTW, after removing .006" off the inside diameter of the bore of the break, which calculates to .003" additional bullet clearance, this rifle shot absolutely perfect, FINNALLY!!

Considering the primary issue was the break all along, all that tuning I did, which was absolutely necessary IMO, resulted in a 300 Win mag that will shoot the wings off a fly at 300 yds.. I kid you not, using the lead sled, I shot a 5 shot group at 300 today that is probably the best I've ever shot. I didn't measure it, but I had the first 3 touching in a nice clover leaf group, with number 4 and 5 separated by a very thin margin. No cool down between shots, and the barrel was already fouled with a couple of rounds.

82.5 grs. of IMR-7828 was the ticket with those 165 gr. Hot Cores seated .010" off. I am stoked, but mentally exhausted though, what a ride.

GS
 
A friend installed a brake, same thing, he ask me how could that happen. I suggested he assumed the brake was concentric, it was. But the bore was not concentric with the outside diameter of the barrel.

I suggested he make dowels or pilots for the bore then measure the outside diameter of the barrel from the dowels/pilots. I suggested he make a few that would slide through the barrel.

Slide through? The dowel will stop at a bend in the barrel and will stop at the interference at the brake. He threaded the muzzle then installed the brake, to him it was not a good day to have a customer walk in and tell him what he screwed up. The brake was not centered with the bore, he just opened up the brake.

F. Guffey
 
Very interesting fact fguffey. I'm betting this may be a possible contributing factor regarding this break to barrel misalignment issue too. It's obviously misaligned at some juncture, but at this point in time, it's shooting, and I have no desire to change anything else.

I'm just kicking myself in the butt for not having caught this early on. But in my defense, with all the other issues this rig had, I already had my hands full.

GS
 
GS, as an old shooter whose most used expression is "What?", or "repeat that please". Most of this is due to early ignorance as to the cumulative effect of loud noises on hearing. So as this old near deaf shooter let me say, I would never subject anyone to that sort of hearing abuse. EVEN 1 SHOT at 170 Db will cause irreversible hearing damage, trouble is you won't realize it for years. $0.02
 
Rogn, although I more than appreciate the heads up regarding the db level of a break, I'm not the one that's going to be shooting it on the elk hunt, that would be my Son. I'm just the loose nut that has been resolving issues with this rig, all being accomplished with hearing protection.

Carelessness, and a lack of consideration as to shooting without hearing protection over the last 40 yrs. or so has cost me a life of ringing in my ears already. But I think the straw that broke the camels back, was when I forgot to slip my plugs in when shooting am H110 45 LC load some years back.

GS
 
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