Your opinion on a match idea

[ljnowell]

We have a fairly new indoor range facility in out town that us owned by a friend of mine. I currently run a bullseye league there and have been looking at running some special matches. He has basically told me we can do whatever we want as far as the matches go, as it's business in the door.

My goal right now is the design of a compact conceal carry gun match. This isn't IDPA or action pistol type match, closer to a bullseye match. This would be open to snub nose revolvers and small compact autos.

Currently I'm planning a four stage match. First, will be a slow fire fired at either ten or 15 yards. Ten shots, and thinking of using a b16 target.

The second, third, and fourth targets will be rapid fire. I'm thinking of five, seven, and ten yards. The logic behind this is that these are the qualifying distances for IL concealed carry and it seems reasonable. I haven't set on a target for these but have been considering a reduced size silhouette target.

Any suggestions? Add a stage and make it an even 50 rounds? Cut one out? Target suggestions? Please, I'm listening.

 

[earplug]

ICORE type match

My local range had a ICORE match that was fun and easy to run and score. We opened it up to pistols and even pistol chambered carbines.
If you want to use the ICORE rules, its short and sweet.
We ended up switching to USPSA matches due to the lack of dedicated revolver shooters and a hard core bunch of USPSA shooters.
I suggest not trying to reinvent the wheel. 50-60 round is about right. 18 round stages is easy to shoot and quick to score.

 

[ljnowell]

My local range had a ICORE match that was fun and easy to run and score. We opened it up to pistols and even pistol chambered carbines.
If you want to use the ICORE rules, its short and sweet.
We ended up switching to USPSA matches due to the lack of dedicated revolver shooters and a hard core bunch of USPSA shooters.
I suggest not trying to reinvent the wheel. 50-60 round is about right. 18 round stages is easy to shoot and quick to score.

We have lots of IDPA and USPSA and the like in our area. As this isn't action pistol based, it's going to be shot in a line with six shooters at a time.

 

[MrBorland]

I'd leave it at 40 rounds total so shooters can come with an even 50 and still have enough "just in case". Maybe let them start off with 5 sighters.

As to the SF target, I'd try experimenting with the B16 and the B8. With little bitty carry guns, the B16 might prove difficult and discouraging for many, even for 10Y slow fire.

The RF strings could use some variety beyond the distances. Would they be shooting 2-handed? Maybe require 5Y RF to be done 1-handed. To make the 7Y RF interesting and different than the 10Y RF string, you could mandate a reload.

 

[ATLDave]

So basically a bullseye-type match but with small guns? Are you going to have rules around maximum size/weight of guns to keep out bigger guns that would have an inherent advantage?

 

[ljnowell]

So basically a bullseye-type match but with small guns? Are you going to have rules around maximum size/weight of guns to keep out bigger guns that would have an inherent advantage?

Yes, kinda. Of course there will be four instead of three targets and the distances will be different.

We aren't expecting a real large group of people. Probably only twenty or so and all if them shoot in one of our three leagues so they all have an understanding of what we are doing in regards to guns. As we are planning it it will be a sub compact/pocket gun match. We gave a list of guns by size and anything that's comparable. A 3.5" barrel limit in autos, a 3" on revolvers.

I'm sure some of the rules will change after the first one, as we see what works and what doesn't. It's rare that you get it right on the first try

 

[ATLDave]

That makes sense. I think history shows that relying on the "spirit" of a match to keep it looking the way you want (in terms of equipment or technique or whatever) is pretty ineffective against the hydraulic pressures of competitive instinct! If you let people shoot their bullseye or PPC-type guns, I would expect them to do just that.

 

[vagunmonkey]

How about a rapid fire bowling pin target in low/no light at 5-7 yards.

 

[PJSprog]

Sounds like a cool idea, ljnowell. What part of Illinois are you doing this? North? South? Chicagoland?

 

[ljnowell]

Sounds like a cool idea, ljnowell. What part of Illinois are you doing this? North? South? Chicagoland?

I live in what most would call central IL. About 40 miles south of Springfield on I-55.

We have settled on slow fire fired on a reduced size silhouette at 10 yards.

Then a b27 at five yards for two five shot strings one handed. First right hand, then left hand. Each string fired in 10 seconds.

Then a b27 at seven yards. This will be a 25 second stage consisting of five rounds, reload, and five more, all on the clock fired two handed(or one if you are so inclined).

The final is a b27 at ten yards. Two five shot strings of ten seconds each.

We think it will be a great time. If you know anyone in the area or if you are close enough we would love to have people cone and give it a shot!!!

 

[PJSprog]

Sounds like fun. I'm about 50 miles south of you in the Trenton/Highland area. Shoot me a PM with the details.

 

[ljnowell]

Sounds like fun. I'm about 50 miles south of you in the Trenton/Highland area. Shoot me a PM with the details.

I will most definitely do that. Should have some solid details on Wednesday evening.

 

[grogetr]

I would like some info on this also. I'm about 35 miles from you. I pretty much suck at shooting but sounds like it could be fun and good practice.

 

[ljnowell]

I would like some info on this also. I'm about 35 miles from you. I pretty much suck at shooting but sounds like it could be fun and good practice.

No problem. I'm going to try and set a match date and cost tonight when I go to shoot our match tonight.

 

[ljnowell]

Grogetr, PJSprog, we set a match date of September 13. Match fee will be 15 dollars. The match will be shot exactly as above in post #10.

 

[mokin]

How about a rapid fire bowling pin target in low/no light at 5-7 yards.

I like this idea. Being indoors you have the potential to manipulate the environment all sorts of ways. Flashing lights, noise, introduce some confusion.

It's good to read about shooting sports growing in Illinois. Good luck and stay safe.

 

[Nathan Detroit]

I just ran across this and thought I would pas on our experiences with a version of a snub gun/belly gun/back-up gun/undercover gun match.

For about the 10 or so years we have run a 22 week winter duty gun league on our indoor 50 ft range. One of the categories is the undercover gun match. We use the same course of fire as the duty gun match, but reduce the round count from 48 rounds to 40 rounds.

The course of fire starting from the holster is:

5 rounds / 8 seconds / one-handed at 3 yards
10 rounds / 20 seconds / two-hands / 7 yards
10 rounds / 20 seconds / two-hands / 15 yards
15 rounds / 90 seconds / two hands / 18 yards from behind a barricade - 5 rounds kneeling, 5 rounds standing left hand / 5 rounds standing right hand - the barricade is used for cover and support in all positions.

It is all done a two B-27 targets, stages 1 & 2 on the first target and 3 & 4 on the second. It winds up being very challenging and includes most of the shooting skills you need. It builds on a bullseye precision shooting background, includes mandatory reloads, drawing from a holster, strong and weak side as well as one hand shooting. For safety, we allow the shooters to start with their grip established on the gun.

We also limit the guns to 5 shot revolvers and small autos. We tried barrel length limits, but a S&W 3" Model 25 in .45 ACP will meet the barrel length limit while hardly being a small gun. We settled on sight radius limits for both revolvers and semis and limited them both to 6" for our purposes. We specifically did not allow 6 shot revolvers since the S&W 2.5" Model 19s will shoot rings around the smaller guns. That 6" limit will exclude the guns like the Glock 19.

With practice scores over 390 out of 400 are not uncommon.

 

[ljnowell]

I just ran across this and thought I would pas on our experiences with a version of a snub gun/belly gun/back-up gun/undercover gun match.

For about the 10 or so years we have run a 22 week winter duty gun league on our indoor 50 ft range. One of the categories is the undercover gun match. We use the same course of fire as the duty gun match, but reduce the round count from 48 rounds to 40 rounds.

The course of fire starting from the holster is:

5 rounds / 8 seconds / one-handed at 3 yards
10 rounds / 20 seconds / two-hands / 7 yards
10 rounds / 20 seconds / two-hands / 15 yards
15 rounds / 90 seconds / two hands / 18 yards from behind a barricade - 5 rounds kneeling, 5 rounds standing left hand / 5 rounds standing right hand - the barricade is used for cover and support in all positions.

It is all done a two B-27 targets, stages 1 & 2 on the first target and 3 & 4 on the second. It winds up being very challenging and includes most of the shooting skills you need. It builds on a bullseye precision shooting background, includes mandatory reloads, drawing from a holster, strong and weak side as well as one hand shooting. For safety, we allow the shooters to start with their grip established on the gun.

We also limit the guns to 5 shot revolvers and small autos. We tried barrel length limits, but a S&W 3" Model 25 in .45 ACP will meet the barrel length limit while hardly being a small gun. We settled on sight radius limits for both revolvers and semis and limited them both to 6" for our purposes. We specifically did not allow 6 shot revolvers since the S&W 2.5" Model 19s will shoot rings around the smaller guns. That 6" limit will exclude the guns like the Glock 19.

With practice scores over 390 out of 400 are not uncommon.

Thanks for your input on this! I actually got the idea for this match from the Illinois Police Association 48 round combat match, we just changed it up some.