Transformation to shooter

It used to happen the other way. I learned to shoot, and shoot well, long before I could leagally own a gun. The second part of your statement, I can attest to. My Dad rarely keeps a gun long enough to acquaint himself with how it shoots. I buy a gun, and shoot it until I am satisfied with my proficiency with it. Then it goes in the 'range rotation'.

My Dad's goal was to teach me to shoot better than him. he succeeded. I have partly succeeded with my older son; he's better than me with a rifle, as good with a shotgun, but will never be as good as me with a pistol. No interest. (He's good enough to have gotten a deer with his .357, though.) The younger one is close to me with a rifle, and little interest with pistol or shotgun. They are both better bow shooters than me, though.

Competition. Competition changed me from a guy who liked guns (with a little plinking on the side and some reloading) to a guy who liked to shoot.

Didn't have a whole lot of money for guns when I was first starting out. I frequently borrowed guns from friends to go hunting with. Since guns were few and far between when I did get one I learned how to use it from books I had read and trips to the range. Also learned reloading as a way of saving money as factory ammunition was too expensive to keep using all the time. So I guess I would consider myself a shooter first, gun collector later as I had more money to spend on guns and accessories.

For some reason I'm reminded of Socrates. And that's not something that happens very often. I mean, there's two types of people in this world: those who are sometimes reminded of Socrates, and those who are not. And I'm definitely one of those who is not.
(To forestall argument, I'll accept that there are probably more than two kinds of people in this world, and there may be other ways of telling them apart beside unbidden musings on ancient philosophers. But I think my point stands.)
But one of the best known things that Plato is misreported as having quoted that Socrates said is, "I am the wisest man in the world for I know that I know nothing."

I'd say that the shootist is someone who pursues the goal of being a master of his firearm of choice, or maybe some firearms of his choice, but knows he cannot be, as any standard he applies as "good enough" is artificial, and his own skills are ever-atrophying, and the only true measure of sufficiency is in a moment when life presents a test, pass or fail. But past performance is no guarantee of future success. So the true shootist is the man who says, "not yet, but I try to be."

Are you a shootist, a competitor, a self defense practitioner, a sportsman, a collector, an historian, a reloader, a hunter, an amateur gunsmith, a person with an unhealthy obsession who's money goes up in smoke? One can be all of these things. What combination makes you happy?

Guilty, on all above counts, though i have been a gunsmith professionally.

I'd gotten to the point where I could shoot accurately enough to suit me, but definitely not fast enough. So I signed up for USPSA and IDPA and have started dry-fire training. It's enough of a new world that it will keep me busy for the rest of my life.

wgp said:

At what point does one go from a person who mostly just loves to acquire more guns and shooting stuff, to someone who focuses on actually learning to shoot what he/she has really well? Have you done it, or do you even want to?

Click to expand...

For me it was after being trained in the Army at age 24 with a desire to compete in pistol matches transformed me to focus on shooting better.

I shot USPSA matches with Sig P226 and customized 1911 fortified with Wilson Combat parts but my RSO who taught me defensive/point shooting challenged me to shoot USPSA matches with factory pistols I used for SD/HD. He said once I learned to shoot well, I should be able to shoot well with any pistol, even a factory Glock. So I bought two Glock 22s and practiced, practiced and practiced.

Since then, I have shot several hundred thousand rounds through various Glocks and currently use Glock 22/23/27 for SD/HD and range pistols. I have rekindled my like for 1911 and shot over 10,000 rounds out of railed Sig 1911 Nitron. I have produced 2"-3" shot groups at 25 yards slow fire with my pistols (Sig 1911 makes shooting small shot groups easier than Glocks) but holding true to my promise to the RSO, I continue to practice double taps and point shooting to 15 yards with sub 4" groups.

25 yards groups with Glock 22- https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-4#post-9645513


25 yard groups with Sig 1911 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-2#post-9630316


Group shot in front of another THR member for verification - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-4#post-9646469

wgp said:

I don't think you need to limit yourself to one gun

Click to expand...

I believe once you mastered certain shooting techniques like point shooting, you can transfer that skill to other pistols - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/point-shooting.814672/#post-10428857



Hickok45 uses the same technique to shoot accurate regardless of pistol

I started off with just shooting and hoping to hit something. I was in the i need a bunch of weapons kick when i hit about 19-22yo but then it dropped off to buy one for each thing. hunting, target, etc. I thought it was so cool to have a bunch of different guns but i learned i needed to make the ones i owned work. My 2 buddies get so mad at me when we shoot something saying man anything you pick up you can shoot really well be it rifle, pistol, bow, crossbow, shotgun, etc.

I started shooting slug guns and shotguns at a young age and as long as i could hit minute of deer or bird i was good. As i got older i became concerned with accuracy and spent a lot of time and money trying to make the guns shoot a lot better and figure out what i needed to do to shoot better and now i can blast clays 24 out of 25 as fast as i can with a pump gun or O/U. I have learned with my pistol that my life depends on how fast i can get it out and fire and that came from some great instructors over the years. but i think the main thing that helps me is telling myself relax and i can do it. my buddy cant hit squat sometimes and gets upset and when i tell him calm down and focus and tell himself he can do it he shoots awesome. its all mental.

"Beware of the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to use it."
I have heard it in the context of matchs or turkey shoots with cash prizes:
"Don't bet against the man who has only one gun, he knows it better'n you know your collection."

I try not to laugh at people who think that by buying the same gun as a champion shooter they are somehow buying the champion's skill set.

Definitely competition.
Whatever kind of shooting wets your whistle, chances are there is a competitive venue where it can be tested to the max. Go find that venue.

If you are meant to be a SHOOTER, competition will light a fire under you to get better like nothing else.

Reloading. I wanted to beat federals gold medal match groups I got out of my remington 700. I didn't want to short change my handloads so I began focusing much more on each shot. My groups shrank over a short period of time. Plus reloading = more bullets. More bullets = more practice.

I'm with entropy, ATLDave and ny32182 - I didn't grow up around guns and got into shooting relatively late in life. Well before accruing a safe full of guns, then, I bought a revolver and a .22 rifle, shot the snot out of them (because that's what I thought the whole point was), and eventually found my way into competition.

As far as others, I suspect if/when they make the transition, it's if/when they get out of their comfort zone by shooting somewhere where good shooters shoot (i.e. a match, a class, etc) and realize there's a world of good shooting beyond what they've seen at their local range.

Its simple, a desire to get better at something and take the steps to do so. Lots of people play golf but not many really know how. No real difference. I don't think having or not having a lot of guns matters other than a lot of people like having guns others are interested in shooting more than the guns. The two are not as related as people think.

The man with only one gun probably shoots rarely if at all. The guy with multiple guns is probably interested in them and more likely to spend time at the range.

If you spend more on ammo over the next five years than you do on guns and shoot most of it, you are well on your way.

I've trained a lot of folks to various levels of success. Transformations to shooters usually involve hundreds, if not thousands, or rounds fired in practice.

It happens for a lot of us with the addition of responsibilities...marriages, mortgages, car payments, kids, etc cutting into our funds and changing our focus from being (for lack of a better term) self centered to being more of a responsible person. Changing focus points is in new directions and slows down aquisition, so we focus on perfecting function and ability.

ny32182 said:

Definitely competition.
Whatever kind of shooting wets your whistle, chances are there is a competitive venue where it can be tested to the max. Go find that venue.

If you are meant to be a SHOOTER, competition will light a fire under you to get better like nothing else.

Click to expand...

Competition is great. I've had more success with inexperienced shooters by walking them through the appropriate NRA Marksmanship Qualification program (keeping careful scores and records) than by jumping them into competition. And I've trained riflemen who placed high in F-Class, LRPR, and other high power rifle events in their first few competitions and went on to eventually post perfect scores (200-20x) in NRA sanctioned events. I've also trained folks in pistol who have placed well in their very first Action Pistol competition.

The NRA Marksmanship Qualification program works slowly and allows a focus on fundamentals in a way that jumping right into competition often does not. Rushing to compete more often leads to attempted shortcuts in technique as shooters try and place more highly too fast. These shooters are also more susceptible to buying new equipment as a quick path to success.

https://mqp.nra.org/

Berger.Fan222 said:

Transformations to shooters usually involve hundreds, if not thousands, or rounds fired in practice.

Click to expand...

When I started shooting with my .22 (a rifle and later, a revolver), I collected my brass for the 1st year and a half. Below is a pic. Best I can tell, there are over 30k cases in that box.

I then started competing with my only other gun - a brand new .357mag S&W 686. After about 5 years, I bought another 686 and relegated the first one to back-up status with about 70k rounds though it.

I don't know if it takes 100k+ rounds for "the transformation", but "thousands" might be on the low end. "Hundreds" is a single range session for some.

JohnBiltz said:

Its simple, a desire to get better at something and take the steps to do so. Lots of people play golf but not many really know how. No real difference. I don't think having or not having a lot of guns matters other than a lot of people like having guns others are interested in shooting more than the guns. The two are not as related as people think.

Click to expand...

I agree. But then again I've never met they guy who "...just loves to acquire more guns and shooting at stuff..." Every shooter I've helped, or ever shot with, always wanted to be better and more educated with each and every gun they purchased. I know there's the guy out there with too much cash who just acquires guns and never gets good. I just haven't met him yet.

Like others.....competition.

Nothing creates a drive for improvement in me more than seeing my name at the bottom of a list.....With that comes dryfire routines, running drills and it forces working on things you suck at, rather than those aspects you're good at and enjoy.

Chuck

wgp wrote:
At what point does one go from a person who mostly just loves to acquire more guns and shooting stuff, to someone who focuses on actually learning to shoot what he/she has really well?

Click to expand...

My grandfather taught me how to shoot. I wasn't allowed to put more than one round of ammunition until I could demonstrate mastery not only of the safety aspects of the rifle, but also the ability to reliably and consistently place rounds on the target.

My grandfather had been a marksmanship instructor at the Infantry School at Ft. Benning from the early 1930's until 1943. He knew that "Hits Count" so he focused on havng me learn how to hit what I aimed at. He also knew the style of shooting was dictated by the mission and as a civilian, my needs would be self-defense and hunting, so he concentrated on shooting suitable to the terrain. This meant shooting from a standing or kneeling position using the sling for support. The standard was to put ten shots in the circular divot in the side of a milk jug at 100 yards offhand using iron sights. It is a standard I eventually achieved and when I did achieve it, I was allowed to graduate to new and different guns.

I started very late in life with guns. Shotgun is where I started, thanks to my cousin. That lead to years of trap and skeet. Then handguns. Then rifle. I've got just 3 shotguns and still enjoy the field hunt for quail and chukar. Handguns is mostly reserved for shooting with my wife. Rifle is my obsession and fascination.

I do have a decent collection of fine handguns which I probably don't shoot enough. The reality is my eyesight is not what it used to be. I have a note with each one telling my wife "don't sell this one cheap".

At this stage of life rifle allows me the opportunity to be good at something I enjoy. Doesn't matter if my eyes are shot or my hips hurt.

MrBorland said:

When I started shooting with my .22 (a rifle and later, a revolver), I collected my brass for the 1st year and a half. Below is a pic. Best I can tell, there are over 30k cases in that box.

I then started competing with my only other gun - a brand new .357mag S&W 686. After about 5 years, I bought another 686 and relegated the first one to back-up status with about 70k rounds though it.

I don't know if it takes 100k+ rounds for "the transformation", but "thousands" might be on the low end. "Hundreds" is a single range session for some.

Click to expand...

While I do not disagree with the value of large quantities of practice, I think a lot depends on the discipline and the level of proficiency desired.

I've trained a number of shooters in rifle and pistol to the level of "Expert" in the NRA system, and many of them have gotten there with well under 1000 rounds fired in the discipline. These shooters have gone on to place well and even win matches at the local and state level well before they have fired 10,000+ rounds in their discipline. Of course, I've also worked with good people who simply did not have a knack for shooting and might not make "Expert" or win even a local match with 100,000 rounds of practice.

I suppose higher round counts are likely necessary to become competitive in the action pistol disciplines at the national level (and maybe even some of the more competitive local areas), but I do not have the breadth of experience to be sure. But since I have had rifle shooters post perfect scores (200-20x) in NRA events and also place first in national matches, I am confident that that level of proficiency can be acquired with well under 10,000 rounds.

In my own shooting experience, it only took a few hundred rounds to become proficient as a deer and varmint hunter, increasing my kill rate to well over 90% of shots fired. But densely wooded areas and smaller farm fields in E Texas don't afford many shot opportunities at over 200 yards, and deer, coyotes, etc. are pretty big targets at those ranges.

I've also had the chance to help a couple dozen people without much prior rifle experience kill their first (and sometimes second and third) deer. With care and 100 or so rounds of practice, they almost never miss with proper guidance on how to avoid the most common rookie mistakes. At that level of practice, my focus is on getting them to realize their limitations, identifying their expected level of accuracy with each shooting position, and pass on shots where they can't use a shooting position where they have proven a high level of accuracy.

But I do recommend the structure and organization of the NRA Marksmanship Qualification program to get shooters to higher levels of shooting proficiency more quickly and with less ammo cost that less structured plinking and simply sending rounds downrange. I see a lot of people at the range with so many holes in their target that it is difficult to see where each shot is hitting. Knowing the outcome of each shot is key to productive practice, as is a structured program for monitoring improvement and gradually increasing the level of challenge in an attainable manner. The NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program provides that in a number of disciplines.