How Come M1-Type Rifles Cost so Much?

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Swifty Morgan

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I have noticed that new M1 Garand-type rifles cost a ton of money. I considered buying my dad one a few years back, and I think they were around $1K then. Now they're higher. Question: is there something about the design that makes them expensive?

Seems like you can get a more complicated rifle for significantly less.
 
I guess it depends on what is wanted and what is considered "expensive". They certainly are loved and cherished guns.

On just Monday of this week I sent in my order paperwork to the CMP for my first M1 Garand - what they call a Service Grade. The low end of that grade they sell for $750. I thought that was pretty reasonable. (One is taking a chance on what they get. You don't know until it arrives.) And they have a Field Grade for $650. Those can be somewhat beat up.

The bottom line: I can see how buying them from private parties can get pricey. But the CMP seems to be offering (in my opinion) pretty reasonable deals - unless you're looking for something specific or "correct" as is often said.

In my case I just want to own a piece of history - and shoot it somewhat occasionally. I'm not interested enough to get into it to the level of caring whether the parts are consistent, correct, etc.
 
An AR-10 is loaded with machined (not cast) parts, and it's much cheaper than a Springfield. One wonders where Springfield puts the money.
 
Perhaps the machining to make the M1/M1A type rifles is more difficult. When the original Springfield started up the M-14 production they thought it could be done mostly with the tolling used for the Garand. They were wrong, it was a fiasco, and they fell behind and had to do retooling.
I suspect that it might be necessary to use much the same tooling today, save for computer control.
 
You do understand market forces? Nobody makes an M1 Garand today so the supply is limited to the refurbished market through CMP or from someone's private stock. I purchased my first M1 20+ years ago in a private shop for $500, since then I have paid as much as $1200 for an M1D in excellent condition and several other M1's for about a grand. If you want one for your Dad you had better get one while you can as they are not going to get any cheaper. If you think Garand's are bad try finding original M1 carbines for under a grand.......
 
Most of the time I tend to think that the M1 Market is driven by greed more than anything in comparison to the average prices for the vast majority of other milsurp rifles on the market. I'd like to have one in my collection just because but I don't see it as a necessity with everything else I currently have but it's on my bucket list so one of these days maybe I'll finally lay my hands on one in a trade deal , if I don't go after a Mini-14 first instead . On another note, I have a deal pending on an interesting rifle that you rarely see these days. A Marlin Model 99-M1 22LR carbine. It's still in the original Walnut stock and has the M1 rear sight on it. If things go as planned I'll be adding it to my collection of 22's in the next couple of days :) ...

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Most of the time I tend to think that the M1 Market is driven by greed more than anything in comparison to the average prices for the vast majority of other milsurp rifles on the market.
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Greed? That could only be true if ALL of the M1 owners in the country got together and agreed to fix the price. If you bought something for $400 and it’s now worth $1000 it isn’t greed to sell it for that price, it’s intelligence.
 
An AR-10 is loaded with machined (not cast) parts, and it's much cheaper than a Springfield. One wonders where Springfield puts the money.

In their back pocket.....next question.

No Springfield fan, LRB of fulton if I ever decide I need one.
 
An AR-10 is loaded with machined (not cast) parts, and it's much cheaper than a Springfield.

Have a careful count, and you'll see that lots of those AR1* parts are MIM or forged, and that the whole weapon is designed to reduce machining complexity. Picture the relatively simple tool paths to turn a forged lower into an AR.

Now have a gander at an M1. There must be 3-5x as many tool paths inside the receiver, in steel vs Al, and many more of them are dimension-critical.

The two designs are a wonderful case study on the effects of labor cost on machine design: the M1 was designed when materials cost more than labor, and the AR was designed in the opposite situation.

Edit:
Seems like you can get a more complicated rifle for significantly less.

What more complicated rifle? I can't think of many rifle actions more complicated to machine than a Garand.
 
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Most of the time I tend to think that the M1 Market is driven by greed more than anything in comparison to the average prices for the vast majority of other milsurp rifles on the market. I'd like to have one in my collection just because but I don't see it as a necessity with everything else I currently have but it's on my bucket list so one of these days maybe I'll finally lay my hands on one in a trade deal , if I don't go after a Mini-14 first instead . On another note, I have a deal pending on an interesting rifle that you rarely see these days. A Marlin Model 99-M1 22LR carbine. It's still in the original Walnut stock and has the M1 rear sight on it. If things go as planned I'll be adding it to my collection of 22's in the next couple of days :) ...

View attachment 797763

It really is driven by greed IMHO....and like another has said...people will pay it. Worst place to buy one is at a normal show....go to a collector show and the prices will be cheaper, but you have to really be in that group to know about this.

I got mine around 20 years ago....I would really like an IH flavor...but not for the prices they are asking.
 
You do understand market forces? Nobody makes an M1 Garand today so the supply is limited to the refurbished market through CMP or from someone's private stock. I purchased my first M1 20+ years ago in a private shop for $500, since then I have paid as much as $1200 for an M1D in excellent condition and several other M1's for about a grand. If you want one for your Dad you had better get one while you can as they are not going to get any cheaper. If you think Garand's are bad try finding original M1 carbines for under a grand.......

Yup. Market forces.
 
The old saw, "It's worth what someone will pay for it," applies here in a big way. Demand is high, therefore prices are high. It's true of anything, whether it's cars, houses, baseball cards, etc.

Pretty simple, really. If you anticipate that demand will continue to grow more than supply, then grab one now. I'd be careful to get the quality you want but don't wait. If you believe the contrary, however, then go ahead and wait to see if prices come down. Or you may stumble on someone who inherited a rifle from their dad or their grandfather and who doesn't know what they have and just wants to get rid of it. That happens some times.

Good luck, regardless.

--Wag--
 
If I remember correctly the last of the M1s built for the government were in 1956 and cost was a $110 and change.

Adjusted for inflation of the 1956 dollar that is a bit over $1120 add to that transport fees taxes and a profit for the seller plus the fact that basically there are no new ones coming into the system now and $1K for a nice rifle starts to look pretty good.

-kBob
 
Market forces - because they can. And it's not just springfield. You think it actually cost Glock $500 to make a pistol? Or Benelli $1200 to make the same gun the Turks are selling g for $350?

Construction- aluminum and plastic with a barrel nut is easier to machine than walnut, steel and traditional headspaing

economies of scale - they probably sell 5000 ar10's to every m1.

made in America - last I checked you can buy a norinco m1 in Canada for $600. I know everybody loves made in america, but the truth is that from knives to clothes, to guns to toys, you pay 2 to 3 times as much for American made in america.

take your pick.
 
Market forces - because they can. And it's not just springfield. You think it actually cost Glock $500 to make a pistol? Or Benelli $1200 to make the same gun the Turks are selling g for $350?

Construction- aluminum and plastic with a barrel nut is easier to machine than walnut, steel and traditional headspaing

economies of scale - they probably sell 5000 ar10's to every m1.

made in America - last I checked you can buy a norinco m1 in Canada for $600. I know everybody loves made in america, but the truth is that from knives to clothes, to guns to toys, you pay 2 to 3 times as much for American made in america.

take your pick.

American!
 
I have noticed that new M1 Garand-type rifles cost a ton of money. I considered buying my dad one a few years back, and I think they were around $1K then. Now they're higher. Question: is there something about the design that makes them expensive?

Seems like you can get a more complicated rifle for significantly less.
Armslist is full of nice used Mini-14s and 30s for 5-600 if you just want an M1-TYPE rifle. They are less maintainance intensive, alot cheaper to shoot, and covered by Rugers warranty too.
 
Same thing with the M1 Carbine. Supply/demand, USGI ones are highly sought after, and even in the commercially made ones, say Universal, Plainfield, Kahr, to name a few, are priced high on Gunbroker and the like. Things just cost more now a days.
 
Today's M1's are collectables and there is a limit to the number that will be available. Plus the ones that are available are ex military, and the military aspect is desired by many shooters.

I loved the old Garand, still shoot a NM match version once in a while. I don't own a GI NM, I would not shoot a GI NM, because it is too valuable to glass bed, replace the barrel, and induce wear on the thing. However, I was able to have several National Match versions built around GI receivers and had Larry Barnett install his match barrels. They shoot well.

The M1 Garand and the M14 were expensive to build and are expensive to build. With CNC machining the price of a M1a machined receiver has dropped, but those are still more expensive than the alternative. A machined LRB is $859 http://www.lrbarms.com/m14-receivers--actions.html and a cast Fulton Armory is $549.00.http://www.fulton-armory.com/m14-receiver-semi-automatic-fulton-armory.aspx Without casting technology I don't think Springfield Armory could have stayed in business with the M1a's. Even back in the 1970's, a fully machined M1a receiver would have been cost prohibitive, and the original cast receiver M1a's came with GI operating rods, bolts, sights, gas cylinders, etc.

Stoner did a great job in reducing the cost of his rifles, and as we can see, AR15's are much less costly than M1 carbines or M1 Garands, or even, M1a's. John Garand came up with a great design but "design to cost" was not a real consideration before WW2. After WW2, it was, particularly for the Germans who lost entire Armies and their equipment in Russia.

Recently just read of a "forgotten" battle where either 500,000 Germans or Russians died. I expect most of their equipment was also lost. Their were 800,000 Axis dead at Stalingrad, and the dead, along with the survivors, lost all their equipment. Battles where half a million soldiers die put a huge strain on the ability of any nation state to raise new soldiers and equip them. The HK91 is an outstanding example of a rifle designed to be reliable, easy to maintain, and cheap to manufacturer. I think the Germans decided it made more sense to focus on production, so when I look at my PTR91, I don't think depot maintenance was a design consideration. The barrel could be pressed out, but I think, the Germans decided that worn out weapons should go on the scrap heap and no labor be diverted to rebuilding worn out rifles. Just punch out new ones faster and cheaper, I think that was the philosophy.And it is no coincidence that the HK91 is the only 7.62 Nato rifle still being made and issued as a service weapon.

I earned my Distinguished Rifleman's badge shooting the M1a out to 600 yards, earned enough leg points to stand on the stage and be handed my Distinguished. I love the rifle, have a great respect for the Garand. But, the things are not cheap to build, or own!
 
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Prices are driven by the law of supply and demand. I paid $650 for my last one this year. The first one I got from the government in the 70's cost me $165. Back then there was not much interest in them. If you want one get one now as the price will only go up.
 
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