Let's talk straight pull bolt actions

There's obviously a mechanical disadvantage compared to a turn-bolt action. You don't get the leverage for extraction, etc. As far as speed is concerned, I don't think any straight-pull can rival the Lee-Enfield.

In addition to these operational disadvantages, they're expensive to make, and complicated.

The only straight-pull bolt action I ever had was a Steyr-Mannlicher M1895. This soured me on straight-pulls permanently.

You may want to look at the history of the 6 mm M1895 Lee Navy. There was a spot of bother (reliability issues) in Cuba when they went head-to-head against M1898 Mausers. That probably soured the US Military on them (Note the success of the 1903 Springfield) and the concept dropped from the sight of shooters in the US.

Perhaps the most notable thing about the rifle (other than the straight pull) is that the 6 mm Lee Navy is the parent cartridge of the 220 Swift.

The Blasers are very nice rifles. But pricey.

Best of breed in milsurps are the Schmidt Rubin series reaching its peak with the K31.

I agree with Alexander A on the Ruk-Zuk (m95 Mannlicher action) being a bit rough and hard to operate. That you have to briskly work the action like you hate it for it to function properly. Have no opinion on a Lee as I have never handled one nor a Blaser due to price and lack of desire for one on the latter.

Owning a SMLE No .4 Mk1* and K-31, I can say without question the K-31 is faster for straight up cycle time. In any position dry firing the rifles for speed of actioning, the K-31 wins. If I'm actually trying to aim the advantage is lost (the K-31's v-notch sights lose to the Enfields ghost ring/peep), and I'd give it to the Enfield. With an aperature sight on the K-31 I'd say it'd be pretty much even, the advantage is cycling time is lost in needing to aim and break a clean shot. Close range rapid fire (rifle in the shoulder, point and shoot), I'll give to the K-31 barely.

I think the major reason for its lack of military use was that it's not demonstrably superior to a turn bolt. Particularly a good turn bolt action like the Enfield.

On the civilian side, I think it's a cost benefit for the manufacturer's. A straight pull is going to be more expensive to produce than a turn bolt. Your average second semester metal shop student can make a safe and working turn bolt action with little more than some files (a lathe would certainly speed up the process though). A straight pull is a decent but more complicated and thus expensive. I'd venture that most manufacturers make the majority of their profit on the "budget" end of their products and thus design and build accordingly.

I recall reading somewhere, possibly on here, that the manufacturing cost to produce a K31 in both materials and labor corrected for inflation was several thousand dollars per rifle.

I would say the Remington 760 would be the working mans equivalent.

Dr T said:

You may want to look at the history of the 6 mm M1895 Lee Navy.

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The Lee Navy had more of a camming action and was not really a straight straight-pull.

The only straight-pull bolt action I ever had was a Steyr-Mannlicher M1895. This soured me on straight-pulls permanently

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When I was into military surplus and military collectibles I had one of those.

According to what I read a number of rear echelon Wehrmacht troops were issued that ... poor suckers.

That thing kicked like a mule. That was one of the hardest kicking rifles that I've ever shot. I had a bunch of ammo for it packed into those original 1937 Nazi era marked boxes too. It ended up in a glass case for a number of years and I never shot it again.

I collected straight pulls about 50 years ago. This was before the K31 was released as surplus, so I never had one in my collection. (Now it's the only straight pull I own.*) I had most of the Mannlicher variations, most of the Swiss (less the K31 and the snipers) several of the Ross versions, including a commercial M10 in 280 Ross. (Beautiful rifle, wish I still had it....) I never did figure out how many "Marks" of Ross there were. It seems that every time they twitched the sights, it was a new "Mark".... I also had a Lee. Interesting rifle. As said before "almost" a straight pull.
Its feed system and extraction/ejection was fraught with problems and was quite fragile. The barrel steel of the day couldn't take much of the high velocity rounds and shot out easily.
I gave up on the collection when I found I wasn't likely to find any of the Swiss Cavalry Carbines nor any of the Mondragons.

* Just remembered, I have a M95 Steyr around here somewhere. It has been converted into Drill Rifle by milling a large slot through the receiver ring and chamber end of the barrel. Plus welding the firing pin hole shut....
Oh Well......

deadin said:

several of the Ross versions, including a commercial M10 in 280 Ross. (Beautiful rifle, wish I still had it....)

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You mean one of these? The M-10 sporter in .280? I've had this one since the 1980s. It is hands down, the slickest, smoothest and fastest of all the straight pull rifles ever made. (I think I have fired them all) The Swiss 1911s and K-31s are rough as a cobb by comparison. It is, however, complicated and probably could not be put back into production at a reasonably affordable price.

apologies for the inverted image My phone has been drinking again....

I've had several straight pulls; a Ross, a Steyr and a K-31. I think any slight speed advantage the straight pull has is more than offset by all of the negatives associated with straight pulls.. I will say that the Ross was the smoothest of the three that I've had.

the action on an AR 10 is cheaper to make than any straight pull I can think of. Lighter too. For those that like tradition, a regular bolt is fine. Theres few occasions where a straight pull has a value, because they're not a lot faster than a turn bolt, and not as fast as an SMLE as others point out. War is pretty much the only place where the speed of a straight pull beats its weaknesses (straight pulls have all the same issues that effect a bolt action AND a semi), and war is past the bolt action days.

I also owned a M95, and it kicked worse than my 300 Win mag. Didn’t like the straight pull action, so I let it go.

One of the reasons that the SMLE could lay down fire so fast was the 10 round mag capacity.

And there's also no way an SMLE is faster than a straight pull,

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Actually, I think that would depend on which straight pull and the magazine capacity. The speed that trained soldiers could achieve with the SMLE and it's smooth action during "Mad Minute" drills was amazing.

The "Mad Minute" is certainly quite a feat, and worthy of the legend status it has received, but I'm also quite skeptical about 4 motions in 2 different axis being faster than 2 motions along 1 axis in the hands of a competent shooter. Prove me wrong, and hats off to ya, I'll buy you a drink, but until then I think yall are crazy.

I'll buy the manufacturing cost explanation, but the SMLE's speed of operation certainly had nothing to do with straight pulls falling into obscurity.

I own a SMLE.

I own a Mauser M96 American in .270.

The M-96 cycles with a camming multi-lug bolt with a bolt head similar in look to the AR bolt.... this operates much faster than the SMLE.

The SMLE holds 10, the Mauser 4, so firepower wise the SMLE wins.

DannyLandrum said:

Does anyone know ... Is there a reason that no maker has decided to venture into straight-pulls at a price point for the common man (under $1,000), given the facts that the Blasers are hugely successful among the one percenters, and the inherent advantages of this action - faster cycling? Is there a collection of Blaser patents that no one dare violate or what?

Just curious - I've loved them since I had K31s a few years back.

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Browning Maral is pretty good choice for both stalkng and driven game hunting. Most traditional bolt action rifles are pretty much single shot rifles with a magazine ie only good for game stalking.

the SMLE's speed of operation certainly had nothing to do with straight pulls falling into obscurity.

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Who said the speed of the SMLE made the straight pulls fall into obscurity?

but I'm also quite skeptical about 4 motions in 2 different axis being faster than 2 motions along 1 axis in the hands of a competent shooter. Prove me wrong, and hats off to ya, I'll buy you a drink, but until then I think yall are crazy.

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Well, If you ever shot a straight pull Styer 95 with it's clunky action and stiff recoil and then shot a cock on closing, SMLE you would realize that it isn't so much a matter of which way the bolt moves but how smooth it moves. Also, the Ross is a very smooth straight pull action but only holds 5 rounds, so when you're shooting upwards of 20 or 30 rounds a minute how the rifle reloads (w or wo stripper clips) and how many rounds it holds all play a part in making the SMLE a very fast bolt action....

The M-96 cycles with a camming multi-lug bolt with a bolt head similar in look to the AR bolt.... this operates much faster than the SMLE.

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In practice I doubt that there is really much difference.... I might be able to operate the Ross's action slightly faster than the Enfield but couldn't get aimed shots off any faster... My K31 is slower for me than the Ross.

paulsj said:

Browning Maral is pretty good choice for both stalkng and driven game hunting. Most traditional bolt action rifles are pretty much single shot rifles with a magazine ie only good for game stalking.

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I do wish the Marals were sold in the US. Lovely rifles.

Neat video.

Bushpilot said:

Who said the speed of the SMLE made the straight pulls fall into obscurity?

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Given that the SMLE has practically become the subject of this thread you can't see how this was however indirectly inferred in some small way?

Bushpilot said:

Well, If you ever shot a straight pull Styer 95 with it's clunky action and stiff recoil and then shot a cock on closing, SMLE you would realize that it isn't so much a matter of which way the bolt moves but how smooth it moves. Also, the Ross is a very smooth straight pull action but only holds 5 rounds, so when you're shooting upwards of 20 or 30 rounds a minute how the rifle reloads (w or wo stripper clips) and how many rounds it holds all play a part in making the SMLE a very fast bolt action....

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I think I have a pretty firm grasp of the concept of smoothness aiding speed when working the bolt of whatever action is being used, but thanks for the elaboration I suppose.

If a gun maker is designing a manually operated rifle and looking for speed I would say you're much better off letting the forearm operate the bolt, as is the case with a pump action, rather than a straight pull bolt action. In this way both of your hands remain in "firing positions."

paulsj said:

Browning Maral is pretty good choice for both stalkng and driven game hunting. Most traditional bolt action rifles are pretty much single shot rifles with a magazine ie only good for game stalking.

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Tell that to the 5 sheep that ate bullets from my kinda grungy savage .243 as they ran by

I tease, but Imo the action type matters far less than the users familiarity of using said action, in the circumstances they are presented.
I'm not the fastest bolt gun shooter especially at the same target, as I partially drop the rifle to load.
The BUT, is that I've done that a lot. Where we hunted growing up taking two, three or more shots depending on the amount of animals needed was common. Hunting is year round.
When shooting a semi I still partially drop the rifle, aquire the next target, raise it and fire. Swinging the rifle from target to target isn't natural to me, so for my circumstances (and I've shot 40rnds literally as fast as I could load on erradication hunts) action type dosent really matter.

I'd love to be able to get a nice straight pull, not because of any perceived advantage, but just because it's cool......course I'd still probably try and lift the bolt at least once or twice (yes I've gone for the bolt on a semi a few times).