For a person to go "down with a single shot," something of significance has to be hit - period.
Massad Ayoob has for years praised the 125gr JHP .357 load because, according to him, it's the closest thing he's seen to a "magic bullet" as far as humans are concerned. He talked about one department that switched to the .357 after some problems with stopping power with their previous loads. He said in the next ten shoot outs, the 125gr JHP resulted in "ten instant one-shot stops." One man, hit in the arm, said he felt a "breathtaking blow" after which he was aware of nothing until he woke up in a hospital.
I'm not naive enough to believe that any load is a hundred percent perfect, but I can say it's about the best load you can get out of a revolver meant for stopping humans. And I believe the Sig .357 125gr JHP is about the best one can get out of an automatic,
probably besting the .40 and
undoubtedly beating the .45 ACP.
Ayoob also notes:
Created to duplicate the best ballistics of the .357 Magnum revolver in a semiautomatic pistol, the .357 SIG spits a 125-grain jacketed hollow point at 1300 to 1400 feet per second, delivering 500-plus foot-pounds of energy. Departments which have adopted it are delighted with the performance, reporting a high frequency of one-shot stops.The Virginia State Police, who issue the .357 SIG Model P229 pistol, told me that they were particularly pleased with the number of felons who dropped and stopped fighting after receiving non-fatal wounds in non-vital parts of the body.
And:
So was the .357 SIG cartridge’s performance in the field. Richmond Virginia Police and the Virginia State Police, after many shootings, reported spectacular performance with the Gold Dot load in the .357 SIG. So did the Texas Department of Public Safety, and other organizations. The round’s tactical penetration in auto bodies was particularly impressive. In Texas, the .357 out of a SIG P226 pierced a semi’s heavy truck body to kill a gunman when .45 slugs hadn’t gotten through. In New Mexico, a trooper dropped a rogue bear with an issue S&W M&P .357 SIG. A Tennessee trooper dumped a would-be cop-killer at spectacular range with his Glock 31. The reports were adding up around the country, and they were impressive. Today, the .357 SIG’s performance has turned me from foe to fan. ... When at home...on a rural property where a long shot is occasionally offered, my flat-shooting Glock 31 with 16 Gold Dot .357 SIG loads on board is often what’s on my hip.
When other bullets overpenetrate, the .357 SIG/.357 Magnum doesn't. When going cross country, especially out West, there's alway a .357 revolver within reach. When dealing with big, heavy animals, yes, you're absolutely right. But with humans, I choose the .357 Mag for outdoors and .38 Spc when at home. Bigger holes in humans doesn't always mean greater stopping power. I have three .45 ACPs and they're my least favorite guns, though I do like some of the specialty/premium ammunition available for it.
Quick question, when was the recoil of the .357 (irrespective of load) in a full-sized revolver ever "awful?"
Never. At least not until recently. Back during the days of Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton, you never heard any complaints. I recall articles by gun writers using stainless steel Ruger Security-Sixes and S&W 66s with 6-inch barrels out in the rain and snow, the point being that stainless resisted rust. Now that these companies are putting underlug slabs of steel on their barrels, no one in their right mind carries these boat anchors out in the field, much less hunts with them. The S&W 686 is, in my view, the best production .357 on the market. But would I ever lug one out camping or hiking? No. I also wouldn't carry a .44 Mag., and as I get longer in the tooth, even the older .357s are getting a mite heavy. The 3-inch SP-101 is what I'd choose to carry, with a speed-loader. If I couldn't stop a bear with five shots of that, well, bears have to eat too.
The .357 is a proven fight stopper, that much is true. I guess I look at it like this, while it is important, practicing/training for self defense is a whole lot of work for something that is highly unlikely to ever happen. Conversely, as an outdoorsman, I KNOW that my handguns will be used on flesh. No if's, but's or maybe's.
That much is true. I don't aim to go out and kill anything just for sport. But if I have to, I aim to kill it. Most animals will run from a loud noise unless it fears it's backed into a corner, then all bets are off. I read several years ago about a couple who were out in the wilderness. They had canoed to a nice spot, pitched a tent and while she cooked, he went out to relieve himself. The food attracted a black bear and it didn't want any witnesses. The guy heard her screams and ran to where the bear was going at her. The only thing he had was a 4-inch folding knife and he and the bear went at it. After a spell it withdrew, leaving a trail of blood behind it. They left their stuff and canoed back to where they had parked, found a ranger and the next day they tracked the bear to its body. It had succumbed to its wounds.
Now no one in their right mind would go toe to toe with a bear armed with a 4-inch folding knife, but this guy prevailed. I don't think I would have chosen to cook hamburgers and what not out in such a place, but it ended okay...except for the bear.
I would suggest the .44Spl over any .357 iteration. It's not that the .357 is necessarily inadequate, it's the .44's and .45's will do the same job better without the recoil or brain piercing blast.
See, I'm just the opposite. I have no faith in the .44 Spc. The revolvers
look intimidating, but the bullets move too slow to suit me. A .357 has more stopping power as far as I'm concerned, but being confident in what you're shooting counts for a lot. If you can kick up the speed a little, that might work, but I'd take a .357 ten times out of ten.
The 629MG is a result of my most profitable trade. It's probably the best version of the type, having forged innards and no lock. It was also tuned by Bob Munden and according to S&W's specs, it's 4oz lighter. Just as my 24-3 is 5oz lighter than my model 29. It's a difference you can feel and it's far more attractive. As I said, it's only 4oz heavier than my 4" model 15 and 3oz more than a 4" model 19. There's A LOT of capability in those few ounces. True, it is tough to beat the model 69 but I'm not going to trade a superior sixgun for an inferior one just to save 3oz. Truth is for a 36-38oz sixgun, I'll take the .44Spl every time.
Consider what Ayoob wrote:
Some bad guys can soak up an unbelievable amount of lead, and the cunning ones run and use cover, making them harder to hit and requiring more shots to stop them. A municipal police sergeant in northern Illinois, Tim Gramins, comes to mind. He pulled over a heavily armed suspect who came out shooting, and the fight was on. In just under a minute, the perpetrator was finally down and dead. During that time, Gramins had fired 33 rounds from his Glock 21 pistol, reloaded as necessary and hit his opponent 14 times with 230-grain Gold Dot .45 bullets. Six of those hits were in what most of us would call “vital zones,” but he fight wasn’t over until Gramin finally had the opportunity for brain shots.During that fight the suspect had gone through two semi-automatic pistols himself and had fired 21 shots.
I regard all round nose bullets as something to avoid (unless it's all you have); however, the .45 round nose will usually win out over the 9mm, unless you get lucky. But those on painkillers and other drugs can prove resilient to many rounds. The .357 is the exception. When using the 125gr JHP .357, it's worked very well on even those stoked on such drugs.
Check out
Five Gunfighting Myths for a good read.
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