Jim Rau
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Just curious, what can these 2, 3, and 4 K$ guns do that my 'original' 1911A1 that cost less than 350 do?????
1911 recomendation and experiences
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Just curious, what can these 2, 3, and 4 K$ guns do that my 'original' 1911A1 that cost less than 350 do?????
Olympus
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They all go bang, even Hi Point. You’re paying for varying levels of craftsmanship and features. It’s like anything, there comes a point where you reach a level of diminishing returns.Just curious, what can these 2, 3, and 4 K$ guns do that my 'original' 1911A1 that cost less than 350 do?????
Kevin Rohrer
Member
Just curious, what can these 2, 3, and 4 K$ guns do that my 'original' 1911A1 that cost less than 350 do?????
Depends on what make you bought. I know of one lower-end make (name withheld so as to not start a war) that is made w/ such soft steel that bearing surfaces start to wear after 500-rounds. I also know of makes where bearing surfaces are not cut correctly, leading to early wear and malfunction.
You get what you pay for. For $350, you may get a gun with a trigger that moves in three dimensions rather than one, poorly cut bearing surfaces, soft steel, improper machining, a misshapen feed ramp, low-quality mags, sloppy slides, loose barrel/bushing, etc. $2, 3, and 4k guns do not normally have these "features", and come w/ lifetime warranties to correct the rare problem.
Koroner
Member
Like me. I have a Dan Wesson just like Old Guy's and love it, but when it comes to my best 1911 there just is NO QUESTION;
Les Baer Custom.
I understand the sentiment... However do you achieve the visceral sensation of the tick of 16 perfectly set valves on top of 454 cubes, the ping through the header walls, the howl of a couple of Holly double pumpers wide open, the thunder exploding from a couple of Thrush turbos as rubber smoke curls over the quarter panels?..... That is the question.
Just curious, what can these 2, 3, and 4 K$ guns do that my 'original' 1911A1 that cost less than 350 do?????
$350 in 1965 = $2867 in 2020
Just thought we should be on the same page.
My JCP hi point does not really go bang though....
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Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
This is kinda cool,,,,,,
I'm in the "keep the Gold Cup and buy something else" camp. I own a number of 1911s, mostly custom Colts but also Baers, Browns, and others agree with the guys that suggested the new Colt Competition Model. I had one of the two tone versions and it was a very nice gun, well fit and finished, accurate, and reliable. I only sold it to pay for another custom Colt. I've bought several new Colts in the last five years and they've all been very nicely put together guns and wouldn't hesitate to buy another. Nothing wrong with more expensive 1911s if that's what you want, in addition to custom builds I'm a Baer fan as well, but if you want a solid gun for general, all around use at a reasonable price (in 1911 terms) the new Colts are hard to beat.
lsudave
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I think the key phrase in your response is ""you MAY..."
I've seen bargain level 1911's (ATI, Armscor) that run quite well, have no slop, feed without issues, and are accurate. I've seen "respectable tier" 1911's that stumble at times, and have had finish issues. A lot of these have the polymer mainspring housing, which to me sucks.
I'd guess/hope for a pistol north of 1k, that the parts would be made of good quality material, would be fitted correctly, and the finish would be acceptable (read- no seams or blotches). I don't know why you'd NEED to pay this much to get such things, it should be understood as part of a sale (but I guess it isn't).
If it costs close to 3k, for just me, it better have guided projectiles that never miss, and bring me coffee when I want it. Others will have a different opinion, of course.
wanderinwalker
Member
I'm a recovering motorcycle guy (14 years mostly clean...) and an Elder Millenial (36 years old), and used to get into this with the Harley-Davidson vs "Jap bikes". Yeah, there's something raw and visceral about the tuned paint-shaker V-twin, and the chassis cruises nicely in a straight line, but have you ever opened up a liter-class 4-cylinder Japanese bike? It seems house broken and tame at first compared to the Harley, but it will absolutely redefine your concept of true speed and acceleration...
Anyway, I may in fact be kind of jaded after my non-Colt 1911 experiences, plus working at a gunshop for a little bit. The Filipino guns are hit or miss. You have to hand cycle a few and have a rough idea what you're looking for. Some feel like they were internally polished with a handful of beach sand. A Series II Kimber? If my favorite relative gave me one, I'd risk being disowned by turning it down. A SIG 1911? I don't trust SIGs US quality control. Even a Dan Wesson needs to be inspected on receipt to make sure you can work the thumb safety. (They're 3 and 1 on requiring 2 thumbs to move the lever in the last 4 I've put my hands on.)
I'm not saying Colts are perfect out of the box, but my experience with their modern products doesn't match the "Colts are mediocre, overpriced and overhyped" I read everywhere on the internet either. In the for what it's worth department, my 2017 Colt Competition has a very nice fit and finish internally, and is visibly significantly superior to my 1928 vintage Colt 1903 in this regard. Score 1 for modern manufacturing methods.
Now I'd take a S&W 1911 without a second's hesitation. But they don't have the Pony on the side.
WVsig
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LOL now that is funny.
Koroner
Member
Not sure why that is so funny, WVsig.
Les has built 3 guns for me and they all are my most accurate firearms for their type and superbly reliable.
Sure, they all cost more than my Dan Wesson, but you get what you pay for.
Les has built 3 guns for me and they all are my most accurate firearms for their type and superbly reliable.
Sure, they all cost more than my Dan Wesson, but you get what you pay for.
WVsig
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It is funny because there is no best. The best is a completely subjective statement based on the opinions, experience, intentions and desires of the end user. There is no doubt that Les and his crew make a great gun. I own one and I enjoy it for what it is. It is an overly tight, hard fit, accurate gun with one of the thinnest bluing jobs on a $2000 pistol I have ever seen. The finish started to wear the second it came out of the box. I think it got holster wear from just looking at it. LOL I am being hyperbolic but there are lots of things which make Les Baer 1911s less than perfect or optimal. My biggest pet peeve with them is that he doesn't use standard sized frames. Ever try to fit a non-Les Baer magwell to a Les Baer.
It is no joy because Les chooses to change the dimensions on the frame for some reason. They are good if not great 1911s but like all 1911s they have their faults.
WVsig
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I understand completely where you are coming from. Colt has it problems. They have always had their problems. It is not something new. They had labor problems by the mid 1960s and again in the 1980s where the quality from one pistol to another depended greatly on who was putting them together and if they gave a crap. They had equipment that was end of life but they continued to use to make out of spec pistols. They put volume and production qty above quality. They have had their ups and downs. Now all that said when someone like Jason Burton or Ted Yost say that a current production Colt 70 series reproduction is the current production base gun of choice for their custom builds I listen. When Don Williams says that todays Colts when properly vetted are good guns I listen. These guys are artists who work on 1911s and turn them into functional works of art. There is a long list of top 1911 smiths that prefer to work on Colts. The list of top 1911 full house custom smiths that don't work on Colt is non-existent. If they prefer them because most of the time the important stuff is correct. Dimensionally they are consistent. The frames and the slides measure out properly. All the flaws and there are no doubt flaws can all be corrected on their bench. This cannot be said for other makes who choose to treat JMBs spec more as a suggestion than a blueprint.
As to Dan Wesson I personally think they are one of the best if not the best production 1911 made today but they are not without their flaws. They no longer make blued guns because they had to outsource them and were shipping guns with splotchy finishes. Many people experience gailing from their guns slide to frame fit. There was a time when lots of guns where shipping with the wrong height front sights and they would not shoot to point of aim. The goes on and on. If you watch the market just like Colt every company has their QC ups and downs. For the most part DW does a good job of correcting these issues and making it right. They are great guns most of the time but lets not elevate them beyond what they are.
WVsig
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Just curious, what can these 2, 3, and 4 K$ guns do that my 'original' 1911A1 that cost less than 350 do?????
Honestly if you have to ask that question you will not understand the answer. What is it that this car can do?
That this can't....
They are both very fast mid engine sports cars. Both are red. One however is a bespoke hand built piece of Italian art the other is a Corvette. LOL
One is a production car built on a factory assembly line the other is made by artisans.There is just something different about the 2 although they basically do the same thing. One will cost you about $100,000 the other will cost you close to $1 Million. Some people are willing to pay the difference. Others won't. Neither one is wrong. Both will get you arrested for driving even close to what they are capable of but one is special. One is unique. One is not.
When you get to a certain price point when it comes to anything including 1911s you are not just paying for function. You are not just paying for it to do the basics. You are asking it to do more than that and do it with some flair, refinement and some style. Now we can go back and forth all day long as to the value of these differences. We can talk about the point of diminishing returns. We can compare stats, targets, trigger pull weights etc... but what it really comes down to is what do you want out of your pistol. For me a $350 Turkish clone of the 1911A1 does not do it for me. I have stock 1911A1 model pistols. I enjoy them but if am looking for pure enjoyment that is not the one I reach for.
This one is. The reason I reach for this one is because it is a bespoke pistol built for me. It has everything I wanted on it and nothing I didn't. It was perfectly executed by a master craftsman, Don Williams, and it is a one of a kind. There is not another one exactly like it. It was what I pictured in my mind and Colt + Don + Me made it. It brings a smile to my face everytime I shoot it and I shoot it a lot. It makes me happy to hold it and run it hard. For me that Turkish clone is a soulless machine and a simple tool. It is not a source of enjoyment. It does not make it bad it just makes it what it is. For me the money spent on the Colt below was money well spent.
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Waterboy3313
Member
I've been shooting a Kimber TLE II for the last 3-4 years. It's been a very good carry gun as well as range gun. I've had two problems with it. Nothing more than maintenance. I once had a piece of residue under the extractor that was causing feeding issues and wore out the recoil spring after 1000 ish rounds. Actually both problems were around the 1000ish round mark and that's mainly shooting my handloads.
Very good accurate pistol for the price. Not much you would want to change out of the box if anything. Great trigger too. No issues what so ever. One of the best pistols I own.
Very good accurate pistol for the price. Not much you would want to change out of the box if anything. Great trigger too. No issues what so ever. One of the best pistols I own.
I'm a recovering motorcycle guy (14 years mostly clean...) and an Elder Millenial (36 years old), and used to get into this with the Harley-Davidson vs "Jap bikes". Yeah, there's something raw and visceral about the tuned paint-shaker V-twin, and the chassis cruises nicely in a straight line, but have you ever opened up a liter-class 4-cylinder Japanese bike? It seems house broken and tame at first compared to the Harley, but it will absolutely redefine your concept of true speed and acceleration...
Anyway, I may in fact be kind of jaded after my non-Colt 1911 experiences, plus working at a gunshop for a little bit. The Filipino guns are hit or miss. You have to hand cycle a few and have a rough idea what you're looking for. Some feel like they were internally polished with a handful of beach sand. A Series II Kimber? If my favorite relative gave me one, I'd risk being disowned by turning it down. A SIG 1911? I don't trust SIGs US quality control. Even a Dan Wesson needs to be inspected on receipt to make sure you can work the thumb safety. (They're 3 and 1 on requiring 2 thumbs to move the lever in the last 4 I've put my hands on.)
I'm not saying Colts are perfect out of the box, but my experience with their modern products doesn't match the "Colts are mediocre, overpriced and overhyped" I read everywhere on the internet either. In the for what it's worth department, my 2017 Colt Competition has a very nice fit and finish internally, and is visibly significantly superior to my 1928 vintage Colt 1903 in this regard. Score 1 for modern manufacturing methods.
Now I'd take a S&W 1911 without a second's hesitation. But they don't have the Pony on the side.
I did have a Honda Magna 750 long long ago, I know it falls far short of what's out there now. I do remember having to ride the gas tank through the first few gears to keep the front wheel on the ground. Sometimes I just find great pleasure in doing things the old fashioned way.
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Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
I have a line on one of these 9mm for $1300 out the door....opinions
WVsig
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Is it new or used? The 1911 in 9mm is one if the least reliable chamberings IMHO. This is not a bad gun but Ruger overshot their target market with this one. They MSRPd at $2500 and typically sell new for $1700. That is a lot of money for a Ruger. If you like it $1300 isn’t bad. For me it is just not the aesthetic I typically go for but that is completely subjective. They are supposed to be good guns.
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Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
It is new.Thanks for the input. Didn't realize the 9mm reliability issue. thank You!
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