PSA ALERT! Clean your guns!

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Godsgunman

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Just as important as washing your hands will prevent the spread of viruses and keep you healthy and alive, cleaning your guns will do the same. I'm not talking about disinfecting your guns (probably not a bad idea actually), I'm talking about cleaning and oiling for function people.
The last 3 used guns I have purchased were absolutely filthy. With them being compacts and subcompacts their main purpose is for carry and defence. How do you expect this tool to actually function correctly and save your life when it's clogged up with gunk and grit? :scrutiny: I can possibly understand a range plinker not being cleaned after every outing or if you're Mr tacticool YouTuber doing you're "torture test". Let's be honest EVERY big name out there has been tested and proven. You wouldn't run your car without oil and expect it not to blow up sooner than later, why carry a gun you've shot a thousand rounds through without cleaning and expect it to not malfunction when you actually need it.
I have a co-worker who has an lc9 that has NEVER been cleaned because she "doesn't know how to field strip it" :thumbdown:. I told her to YouTube it or bring it to me and I'll clean it for her. SERIOUSLY?

OK rant over. Please wash your hands and clean your guns. Your life and health depend on it.
 
I wouldn’t take this to a fanatic level. I mean, there is a difference between a gun that hasn’t been cleaned and a gun that has been neglected. You shouldn’t neglect anything that you expect to work when you want it to.

I don’t often clean my handguns. Usually just when I feel like it. I suppose my handguns see about 500 rounds between cleanings, although I do lubricate periodically. I’ll practice with my carry piece, then wipe it down so that I don’t get crud on my suit. Honestly, I wouldn’t trust my life to a handgun that will malfunction after 500 rounds due to not being cleaned.

If being dirty will keep it from operating, there’s something wrong with it. Of course, it’s hard to quantify the difference between dirty and filthy & neglected.
 
If I carry it, I clean it. Otherwise I clean my guns when I feel feel like it. I have many that never been cleaned... One of the main reasons I clean my carry gun after a every range trip is because the outside of the gun is covered in lead and unburned powder that I don't want rubbing off on my hands, holster, and clothing.
 
TonyAngel said:
I wouldn’t take this to a fanatic level. I mean, there is a difference between a gun that hasn’t been cleaned and a gun that has been neglected. You shouldn’t neglect anything that you expect to work when you want it to.

I don’t often clean my handguns. Usually just when I feel like it. I suppose my handguns see about 500 rounds between cleanings, although I do lubricate periodically. I’ll practice with my carry piece, then wipe it down so that I don’t get crud on my suit. Honestly, I wouldn’t trust my life to a handgun that will malfunction after 500 rounds due to not being cleaned.

If being dirty will keep it from operating, there’s something wrong with it. Of course, it’s hard to quantify the difference between dirty and filthy & neglected.
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Any handgun, especially semiautos, can have a malfunction due to being dirty if the dirt and particles get into and build up at the wrong places....

A lot of individual components from the mag spring and follower, ammo, feed lip, ejector, recoil and other internal springs, etc have to be within spec and work in conjunction with one another. If dirt or grim disrupts anything, a malfunction can occur regardless of the make and model... It might not be common, but still not worth the risk when it only takes a few minutes to clean a handgun.
 
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I carry a Glock. As most everyone around here knows, they're known for reliability almost no matter what. Dirty? Grimy? Buried for the last three months? Covered in blood/puke/crap/lint or all of the above? Not nly do some claim these things don't matter much, if at all, some will go so far as to claim that Glocks do better when dirty, grimy, and looking like they've lived in a cesspool for the last three years. But...what do I do? I clean my gun after every range visit. Doesn't take more than a few minutes, and it allows me also to inspect the innards (down to a field strip level, anyway) and consider things like whether the recoil spring assembly is nearing replacement time, etc. My guns are tools. I try to take good care of my tools--and especially good care of those on which I may rely in an emergency. Thus, I carry a Glock that at any given point might be in the top 2% of Glocks when it comes to cleanliness of an oft-used gun. Maybe the next time I sell one, I'll send a message to @Godsgunman.... ;-)
 
I have seen some utterly filthy caked guns at USPSA match run perfectly fine. Some of those might have been mine. :eek: I am talking that the inside of the ejection port looks like dirt mixed with axle grease or a stainless steel revolver black with crud and the gun ran. In my experience most modern guns are at least moderately tolerant to a little crud build up and some are really tolorant.

My favorite was always the guns that malfunction right after a good deep cleaning because the user did not lubricate them properly and the lubrication had not gotten spread around to the critical location yet. :D

I am not a fastidious cleaner of my guns. I have very few that need to be clean to run right. I am very diligent about lubricating my guns though. I rarely clean I simply wipe a gun off, inside and out, with a rag and then re-lubricate it rather than actually clean it. Other than when I am seriously getting after a bore to de-copper/de-carbon it I never use solvents any more. A little CLP on a rag is about as serious about cleaning as I get anymore. Wipe the crud out, inspect for damage/loose and add lubrication liberally.

I would much rather show up to a match with a dirty gun then a deeply cleaned spotless gun. I know the dirty gun was running the last time I pulled the trigger, that supper clean gun is a complete mystery... :D
 
The myth that Glocks and other pistols from major manufacturers do not malfunction and will run no matter what is just that, a myth... I've been on gun forums, GlockTalk, and watched enough YT videos to know that isn't the case. I also seen YT videos of Glocks having malfunctions and failing tortured test. Granted, in most videos they do just fine, but they aren't immune from failure if not properly maintained.
 
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Some people clean too infrequently. Some clean too much.

I, personally, like to clean just the right amount.

If you're an attentive and experienced shooter, you can nearly always "feel" the gun starting to behave a little differently long, long before any accumulation of soft crud (powder residue) will cause problems. A certain level of crud accumulation will cause the trigger reset to feel a little different, for instance, on guns that have a close tolerance between the trigger bow and frame. Now there will be a LOT of rounds between the first reset that feels gunky and the first failure to reset - many thousands of rounds in most cases. Similarly, a lot of gunk built up on on the slide/rail interface will make for a slightly mushy feel at the end of the slide stroke... with many, many rounds left before you get malfunctions. Sludge in the firing mechanism will generally cause some difference in how the trigger feels. Even lots of build-up in the chamber will give sort of a ca-chunk feel to chambering.

There are some exceptions to this - firing pin channels and extractors are things that don't have any particular "feel" to them when shooting. But if you clean those about the same time you do a general cleaning on the gun, they'll generally be OK. For the most part, if you are attuned to the gun, you can tell when it needs cleaning by how it feels in dry-fire and live-fire.

One other thing: For service-type pistols not shooting bare lead bullets, the correct cleaning interval for the bore is once every never, +/- 20k rounds.
 
Styx said:
The myth that Glocks and other pistols from major manufacturers do not malfunction and will run no matter what is just that, a myth... I've been on gun forums, GlockTalk, and watched enough YT videos to know that isn't the case.
Click to expand...

I've seen plenty of Glocks malfunction from things that had nothing to do with dirt.
 
ATLDave said:
I've seen plenty of Glocks malfunction from things that had nothing to do with dirt.
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True and I've seen some that malfunction because of it. My point is, why take the risk? I don't get the logic on how a semiauto pistol that has all the oil worn off and is full of dirt and grim is to be trusted more so than a property cleaned and oiled pistol. The extra grim and gunk surely will hurt more so than help anything.
 
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Styx said:
True and I've seen some that malfunction because of it. My point is, why take the risk? I don't get the logic on how a semiauto pistol that has all the oil worn off and is full of dirt and grim is to be trusted more so than a property cleaned and oiled pistol. The extra grim and gunk surely will hurt more so than help anything.
Click to expand...

I am not sure I have seen too many malfunction due to dirt if there was sufficient lubrication present also. I have definitely see more malfunction caused by a lack of lubrication than too much dirt.
 
I don’t want anyone to think that I am in any way advocating not cleaning your gun, but I don’t take a shower every time I need to wash my hands.

From what I’ve seen, a gun will usually only malfunction due to lack of lubrication, and not necessarily because there’s no lubrication, but because there is no medium for the action of the firearm to use to displace the crud that is building up where it could cause a gun to stop running.

I have a beater AR15. It’s a parts gun, although they are good parts. In the past years it’s had over 8500 rounds put through it and it hasn’t been cleaned. I do lube it though. A couple few drops in the channel of the charging handle. A couple of drops for the rings in the vent holes of the carrier. A couple of drops on the bolt lugs. They only cleaning it’s had is what I wipe off to inspect parts for wear. It’s run without a hitch and continues to.

Now, my 1911, which eats a regular diet of lead with traditional lubed bullets. That thing gets downright disgusting. That I’ll clean every couple or few outings. When I clean that, I pull the grips and throw the whole thing into a bucket. The bucket has 1/2 gallon of mineral spirits, a quart of Mobil one synthetic oil and a can of marvel mystery oil in it. I let the gun soak for a few minutes. Lock the slide back and brush the bore out. Hit what I can get to with a brush, dunk it a few times then pull it out and let the mineral spirits evaporate leaving behind a coat of oil. I blow it out with compressed air and wipe it down. Cleaned and lubed ready for another 1000 rounds.
 
Styx said:
True and I've seen some that malfunction because of it. My point is, why take the risk? I don't get the logic on how a semiauto pistol that has all the oil worn off and is full of dirt and grim is to be trusted more so than a property cleaned and oiled pistol. The extra grim and gunk surely will hurt more so than help anything.
Click to expand...

I think there's a difference between actual dirt and smokeless powder fouling. Powder fouling is pretty soft. It doesn't abrade metal, and it doesn't resist it. If it has lubricant mixed in, it's pretty slippery (carbon makes a good lubricant in many forms, and that's a lot of what fouling is). If all you're doing is shooting a gun, about 98% of what accumulates inside is just that soft powder fouling.

Actual dirt is different. Dirt often has quartz or other hard minerals in it. Dirt can abrade metal. It can jam things up mechanically. Even with lube in/around it, it can remain pretty crunchy.

If you get dirt in your gun, cleaning it at the next available opportunity is advisable. Soft powder fouling is just different. You can have a lot of it in a gun and have no impact on reliability. As I said, you can usually feel it when it is still many hundreds or thousands of rounds short of having a reliability issue.
 
i am new, so i have started the "habit" of cleaning each gun weekly, rather than each trip to the range. as it is now, it does not take long for me to do the cleaning/lubing, and my first time doing a field strip, i just went ahead and did it, with out breaking a sweat, thanks to the MANY you tube videos, i'd watch BEFORE i even bought my guns.

at the end of the week, then guns are dirty for the several rounds run thru them (about 100 to 200 each gun/each trip to the range), and for me, the weekly cleanings/lubing is what i will stick to.
 
ATLDave said:
I think there's a difference between actual dirt and smokeless powder fouling. Powder fouling is pretty soft. It doesn't abrade metal, and it doesn't resist it. If it has lubricant mixed in, it's pretty slippery (carbon makes a good lubricant in many forms, and that's a lot of what fouling is). If all you're doing is shooting a gun, about 98% of what accumulates inside is just that soft powder fouling.

Actual dirt is different. Dirt often has quartz or other hard minerals in it. Dirt can abrade metal. It can jam things up mechanically. Even with lube in/around it, it can remain pretty crunchy.

If you get dirt in your gun, cleaning it at the next available opportunity is advisable. Soft powder fouling is just different. You can have a lot of it in a gun and have no impact on reliability. As I said, you can usually feel it when it is still many hundreds or thousands of rounds short of having a reliability issue.
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IDK, I recently fired 500 rounds of WWB through my APX. Granted it functioned flawlessly, but it was full of grit and powder. I paid my LGS to clean it was filthy and I didn't have the time (the FDE frame was literally black). They mentioned that they had trouble pulling the slide back, and had to use a lot of force. I didn't have any issue after my range session and I reckon it may have still fired, but the residue wasn't all power... I'm guessing I didn't have any issues because the gun was still hot from shooting it, and the grit and grime was from copper flaking and chipping... IDK...
 
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A not-quite-fully-random sampling:

From the Owner’s Manual for the CZ-75:

Clean the pistol
- Each time you use it
- If you get your pistol wet
- As soon as possible after shooting
- At least once a year in a temperate climate
- As often as once a month in a tropical climate, or other demanding environment

From the owner’s manual for the Sig Sauer P365:

The following instructions are for normal environmental conditions. Clean and lubricate before or after every day the pistol is fired or at a minimum of every 500 rounds.

From that for the S&W M&P 2.0:

• Cleaning is essential to ensure the proper functioning of your firearm.
• Your firearm is a precision instrument. To ensure reliable function it is necessary to follow a routine maintenance procedure.

From the manual for the Ruger American Pistol:

At regular intervals, or whenever the pistol has been exposed to sand, dust, extreme humidity, condensation, immersion in water, or other adverse conditions, disassemble, clean, and oil it. Proper periodic maintenance is essential to the reliable functioning of any firearm.

And, finally, the Glock Owner’s Manual:

Your GLOCK pistol should be cleaned and lubricated as follows:

1. when brand new, before first time it is fired, plus
2. after each time it is fired, plus
3. as required. This will be determined by your pistol's exposure to adverse conditions during storage or use such as rain, snow, perspiration, salt water, dirt, dust, lint, etc. Additionally, your pistol should be cleaned and inspected if it has been dropped or if any broken parts are suspected or malfunctions experienced, plus
4. at least once a year.



In not a one of the above manuals is there any warning, statement, etc. about cleaning too much/too frequently. There are in most manuals warnings about too much lubrication, however. (But seldom any mention of too little lubrication.)

I’m moving along.
 
ATLDave said:
If 500 rounds is causing binding on a modern service-grade pistol, something else is going on.
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A Google search of brass flaking, shavings, chipping building up after a few hundred rounds shows that it's not uncommon. I guess something lodged itself in an area that caused the slide to bind...
 
Styx said:
A Google search of brass flaking, shavings, chipping building up after a few hundred rounds shows that it's not uncommon. I guess something lodged itself in an area that caused the slide to bind...
Click to expand...

Somewhat joking, small flakes and shaving of brass mixed in with some good carbon and lub sounds like killer never-seize mix to be used on threads you don't want to bind or gall.

There is always going to be a little of that brass flaking but if there is enough to cause malfunctions within 500 rds then I would suspect a burr or sharp corner somewhere in the feed path that needs to be addressed.

Don't get me wrong with all my posts. If you clean a gun after every shooting trip AND are sure to lubricated it correctly no issues. A properly lubricated clean gun is going to run. If you like doing it or want to do it no harm no foul have at it. I would not be critical of it other than the time used.

Now my current amount of competitive shoot has slacken a fair bit, as family and other interest have taken over, but there were a few years in there where I was shooting a USPSA or IDPA pistol match almost every weekend and occasionally two matches in a weekend if I could find them. I was also practicing every Wednesday evening. A typical match consumed 125 - 250 rds and a practice session was another 100-200 rds typically. If I did a detail cleaning after every session I would have had little time to reload and do other things needed to avoid a divorce. I tried when I first started competing, I religiously cleaning after ever session/match. Then I slowly started cleanly less thoroughly and then less often simply due to other time demands.

After a few year of shooting this high of volumes you sort of learned when your gun has reached that point that it needs cleaning before it starts malfunctioning. There are indicators, you feel it in the slide or cylinder. You sort of recognize build up that is impinging on something critical. My XD always told me it was time to clean when the loaded chamber flag had enough gunk in it to stay up even when unloaded. Then you break it down and clean it. Takes a little longer but you do it far less often.

If it makes you feel better my carry guns are typically kept cleaner than my competition guns but that is more about keeping me clean than a need for the gun to be clean. My hunting guns are likely cleaner too since they get shot only moderate volumes but get actually dirty from getting expose to mud, dirt, rain and snow while hunting. They get cleaned due to the elements not due to fouling from shooting so much.

-wow I am rambling.
 
mcb said:
Somewhat joking, small flakes and shaving of brass mixed in with some good carbon and lub sounds like killer never-seize mix to be used on threads you don't want to bind or gall.

There is always going to be a little of that brass flaking but if there is enough to cause malfunctions within 500 rds then I would suspect a burr or sharp corner somewhere in the feed path that needs to be addressed.

Don't get me wrong with all my posts. If you clean a gun after every shooting trip AND are sure to lubricated it correctly no issues. A properly lubricated clean gun is going to run. If you like doing it or want to do it no harm no foul have at it. I would not be critical of it other than the time used.

Now my current amount of competitive shoot has slacken a fair bit, as family and other interest have taken over, but there were a few years in there where I was shooting a USPSA or IDPA pistol match almost every weekend and occasionally two matches in a weekend if I could find them. I was also practicing every Wednesday evening. A typical match consumed 125 - 250 rds and a practice session was another 100-200 rds typically. If I did a detail cleaning after every session I would have had little time to reload and do other things needed to avoid a divorce. I tried when I first started competing, I religiously cleaning after ever session/match. Then I slowly started cleanly less thoroughly and then less often simply due to other time demands.

After a few year of shooting this high of volumes you sort of learned when your gun has reached that point that it needs cleaning before it starts malfunctioning. There are indicators, you feel it in the slide or cylinder. You sort of recognize build up that is impinging on something critical. My XD always told me it was time to clean when the loaded chamber flag had enough gunk in it to stay up even when unloaded. Then you break it down and clean it. Takes a little longer but you do it far less often.

If it makes you feel better my carry guns are typically kept cleaner than my competition guns but that is more about keeping me clean than a need for the gun to be clean. My hunting guns are likely cleaner too since they get shot only moderate volumes but get actually dirty from getting expose to mud, dirt, rain and snow while hunting. They get cleaned due to the elements not due to fouling from shooting so much.

-wow I am rambling.
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To be clear, the gun never malfunctioned. I also personally didn't have any issue clearing the gun after the range session. The gunsmith at my LGS meantioned to me how dirty the gun was and the issue he had with pulling the slide back when I went to pick it back up. It probably would have worked itself out if it was fired again. I just brought it up to point out that it's not just fine powered that'll build up and could possibly cause issues over time.
 
Paco42 said:
A not-quite-fully-random sampling:

From the Owner’s Manual for the CZ-75:

Clean the pistol
- Each time you use it
- If you get your pistol wet
- As soon as possible after shooting
- At least once a year in a temperate climate
- As often as once a month in a tropical climate, or other demanding environment

From the owner’s manual for the Sig Sauer P365:

The following instructions are for normal environmental conditions. Clean and lubricate before or after every day the pistol is fired or at a minimum of every 500 rounds.

From that for the S&W M&P 2.0:

• Cleaning is essential to ensure the proper functioning of your firearm.
• Your firearm is a precision instrument. To ensure reliable function it is necessary to follow a routine maintenance procedure.

From the manual for the Ruger American Pistol:

At regular intervals, or whenever the pistol has been exposed to sand, dust, extreme humidity, condensation, immersion in water, or other adverse conditions, disassemble, clean, and oil it. Proper periodic maintenance is essential to the reliable functioning of any firearm.

And, finally, the Glock Owner’s Manual:

Your GLOCK pistol should be cleaned and lubricated as follows:

1. when brand new, before first time it is fired, plus
2. after each time it is fired, plus
3. as required. This will be determined by your pistol's exposure to adverse conditions during storage or use such as rain, snow, perspiration, salt water, dirt, dust, lint, etc. Additionally, your pistol should be cleaned and inspected if it has been dropped or if any broken parts are suspected or malfunctions experienced, plus
4. at least once a year.



In not a one of the above manuals is there any warning, statement, etc. about cleaning too much/too frequently. There are in most manuals warnings about too much lubrication, however. (But seldom any mention of too little lubrication.)

I’m moving along.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea of what sort of customer service nightmare any sort of large scale manufacturer has to contend with on a daily basis?

Customers who don’t do any maintenance at all calling and complaining that their gun won’t run. The manufacturers have issues to deal with such as not being able to rely on a customer having an iota of common sense. Why do you think lawn mowers now have a warning telling you not to put your fingers under the deck of the mower while it’s running?

They can’t just say to use your common sense and clean or lubricator when needed. They have to take the safe path, assume that the customer has no sense and advise the above to cover all situations and avoid being blamed for problems caused by abuse and/or neglect.

For those that simply choose to or lack the common sense to know when to clean or lube, the above is provided for your reading enjoyment with a recommendation as to how to spend your free time.
 
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