New 336 Classic from Ruger aka Marlin thoughts?

dranrab said:
Link?
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Sorry, no link to quantify 25yrs of accumulated knowledge gleaned from conversations with professionals. Put it this way, in conversations with Wayne Baker of Freedom Arms, Mic McPherson and other industry folk, we learned that all other major manufacturers along with several gunsmiths tried to adapt their existing guns to the .454. The 1886 was the only one strong enough but too big to be practical. None of the Marlin platforms stood a chance. The Big Bore 94 did admirably at 50,000psi, while the modern 1892 will live all day at 50,000psi. Note the only commercial .454 is an 1892. Also note that the only .460S&W and .500S&W levers available are hand built hybrids of the 1892/1886. The Marlin 1894 is good to 40,000psi.

Everybody knows the 1886 is the strongest .45/70 repeater available and second only to the Ruger #1.

The open receiver top has little to do with it. It's the locking lugs and the surrounding areas that are the limiting factor.
 
Well after seeing the prices of the used Marlins these days, I think I would buy a Ruger too.
 
CraigC said:
Sorry, no link to quantify 25yrs of accumulated knowledge gleaned from conversations with professionals. Put it this way, in conversations with Wayne Baker of Freedom Arms, Mic McPherson and other industry folk, we learned that all other major manufacturers along with several gunsmiths tried to adapt their existing guns to the .454. The 1886 was the only one strong enough but too big to be practical. None of the Marlin platforms stood a chance. The Big Bore 94 did admirably at 50,000psi, while the modern 1892 will live all day at 50,000psi. Note the only commercial .454 is an 1892. Also note that the only .460S&W and .500S&W levers available are hand built hybrids of the 1892/1886. The Marlin 1894 is good to 40,000psi.

Everybody knows the 1886 is the strongest .45/70 repeater available and second only to the Ruger #1.

The open receiver top has little to do with it. It's the locking lugs and the surrounding areas that are the limiting factor.
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@CraigC thank you for the info I had no idea until Now I would’ve said the Marlin 1894 was stronger than the Winchester 1892 because of the bridge on top but hey like they say you learn something new Everyday
 
My relationship with the 336 goes back about 60 years. Most everyone I hunted with in those days has past leaving me only memories of the 336 I and nearly all of the others used. I’ll just hang on to the JM marked rifle and reminisce without buying more.
 
3Crows said:
That is an opinion, not a fact, and many do not share your opinion of what constitutes lame. An appropriate magnification scope is faster in my use and in addition to the magnification a scope also amplifies light providing a brighter view. There is no law says that if a scope is mounted to a rifle it must be a mini-Hubble telescope. If shot placement is important then a scope makes good shot placement much more certain.
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Marlin 336 in 35 rem goes hunting with me. Win 94's stay home in the safe.
 
Regardless of which is ultimately stronger they are all strong enough for the intended cartridges and the Marlin 1895s are proven up to close to 40,000 psi for Lever Gun loads. If anyone needs more than the Garret or BB running at what I surmise is about 34,000 to 36,000 psi then maybe just get a .458 WM at that point.

Marlin has now changed hands twice. You just have to think that the engineers of various sorts at (original) Marlin had to have done materials and functional analysis but in those ancient days before CAD and when slide rules and vacuum tubes ruled the day maybe one could ask just how good is good enough. But as much as it is popular to hate on Remingtons management and the Freedom Group I think they had engineers. They factually created CAD drawings and derived from that CNC code. And a pretty darn good engineering analysis had to have been done surely. Then Remington went away and Ruger got the intellectual property (the aforementioned CAD and CNC data) and a pile of parts and some machinery, basically the remains of the day, a no longer functioning company packed in boxes and crates. Does anyone really think that (a risk adverse company like) Ruger and their engineers did not do due diligence and go over with a fine tooth comb the drawings and IP acquired from Remington and Marlin? Which Marlin apparently did not even have real drawings when Remington took over, just tribal knowledge and some ancient hieroglyphics scrawled on a wall?

The Marlins are strong enough. All of these guns, Winchester, Marlin, even "Henry" are strong enough.
 
"Strong enough" is usually good enough, until it isn't. If all you're doing is shooting standard pressure factory loads, then it's good enough. The .45Colt is a good example of where it isn't. Because factory and potential handloads range from 10,000psi mousefart "cowboy" loads to +50,000psi monster mashers. Here the difference between a Henry 1860 and a Rossi 1892 is significant. This also applies to the .44Mag, although to a lesser extent. It also comes to play when you're trying to squeeze the largest, most powerful cartridge possible into existing platforms. Such as the .50Alaskan and other big bore conversions. It certainly came into play when the industry tried to adapt their existing guns to the .454, when Ruger introduced the Super Redhawk in that chambering and made it more popular. Some folks just like to understand these things, whether they apply them or not.

That said, my Remlin model 1895 is better than any JM Marlin I've ever handled. They did them right towards the end.
 
CraigC said:
"Strong enough" is usually good enough, until it isn't.

That said, my Remlin model 1895 is better than any JM Marlin I've ever handled. They did them right towards the end.
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So is my Remington-Marlin SBL. It is as good a lever rifle as I have owned. And the Ruger is quite exceptional:

IMG-3871.jpg

If I was forced to say which I would keep, it would be the Remington but I am keeping both! The Ruger feeds the over length and large metplate rounds more smoothly. The Remington, just going to say it, thus far, it is a little more accurate.

And both will handle all SAAMI approved ammunition and Level 2 Lever Gun loads just fine. If you put a "monster masher" Level 3 Ruger #1 loads in them all bets are off. I do not believe they would blow up (at least on the lower end of Ruger #1 only loads), I think the bolt lock would be damaged on the lugs and that the barrel might begin extruding from the receiver. My best (uneducated) guess is these rifles will handle 38,000 psi continuously with no exceptional wear. The BB and Garrett ammo run around 35,000 cup? The Remington SBL has run the Garrett Hammerheads +P. At that level and above, I am probably grabbing for something with a bolt action.
 
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CraigC said:
The 336/94 are very close, with Marlin probably ahead. Of course, they cheat by using the same receiver for the 336 and 1895.
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Agreed. But if the 336 is overbuilt for a 30/30 and the same frame is acceptable for a hot loaded 45/70 and a 444, then the '86 must be grossly overbuilt for same?

A very good friend has an '86 in 45/90 his grandfather bought new in 1904; just a beautiful old cannon. But a big, heavy old cannon. Angling for an opportunity to buy it, but I don't think it will happen...
 
The 1894 44 Magnum version continues the strange 1 in 38" twist legacy?

Why, Ruger, why? Specifically, why not 1 in 20"?

Are my ideas of a mid-range 44 Special (250 grain SWC @1000 fps) that is accurate to 100 yards or so dashed?

I should have bought one of the 44 Special 1873's when I saw it...
 
3Crows said:
I can only hope somebody is confused because if true I will wait on buying one.
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Same. I really want Ruger to get this right and make them 1 in 20". My Rossi wouldn't shoot the bullets I wanted to, and the cva I had was a single shot that would stack shots like a target rifle. I really want a levergun to shoot 300 grn bullets in 44 mag from.
 
I’m pretty sure the 96/44 was 1:20. Earlier 44 Deerstalker Carbines were 1:38 but some may have been 1:20 later on. Anything made in the last 2 decades has been 1:20 to include 77/44s and the Deerfield carbine.

I have no idea why Ruger would make the 1894 with the old and obviously outdated 1:38 when I am sure they are aware of many Marlin owners who wish that twist rate gone and already have a history of producing 44 rifles with 1:20. Henry produces all of theirs with 1:20 also and they are Marlins biggest competitor.

I tend to agree that it is a typo or carelessness in that article.
 
CraigC said:
I'll bet they just copied and pasted the twist info. Every .44 rifle Ruger has made in recent memory was 1-20".
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Yeah, usually Ruger is pretty cognizant of twist rates on their rifles, surely they wouldn't screw up on the new 1984, especially now that heavy bullets and suppressors are increasingly popular?
 
Gtscotty said:
Yeah, usually Ruger is pretty cognizant of twist rates on their rifles, surely they wouldn't screw up on the new 1984, especially now that heavy bullets and suppressors are increasingly popular?
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Agreed and I have to say, never thought I'd see Ruger get so into threaded barrels and suppressors. I'd be shocked if they were anything but 1-20".
 
Frulk said:
For me it’s more the caliber than the model. Put something out there in:

.327FM
.32-20
.38-55 Win
.454 Casull

Any of those would get me to the front of the LGS counter with wallet in hand.

Of course I realize those have limited appeal compared to 45-70 and 30-30 et al. So the wait for them will be a little longer if they’re made at all.
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The 1894 action is a good one, but it's virtually unchanged after 130 years, and really isn't built to handle the bolt thrust of the .454, so that'd have to be a short throw 336 action or a new design entirely.
 
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