Flop handgun rounds

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BLACKHAWKNJ

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The messages about designing a new round for concealed carry prompts this one.
The ones that come to mind are:
1. The 9MM Federal. Designed for the Charter Arms revolver, then it was found it could be chambered in revolvers chambered for 38 S&W that could not take the pressure.
2. The 45 GAP-that seems to have gone nowhere.
3. The 22 Jet -a high pressure tapered case in a revolver...? And I have read they were LOUD !
Rounds such as the 10MM Auto, 41 Magnum were not flops but they were not the great successes their advocates expected. They have niches and followings.
 
I don't believe the 9mm Federal was a flop as much as a matter of having a serious design flaw. 9mm revolvers are popular but this round, I believe, could be chambered in older revolvers not meant to take the pressure of a 9mm.
 
I know nothing about the 10mm, but see it in all the threads now. Question: why was it unpopular then and now why is it becoming popular?

No need to do a deep dive, 20,000 ft level is ok.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if we find the 30 Super Carry on that list in 10 years.

To counteract the sheer economies of scale that 9mm Parabellum has it better offer more than a bit better penetration (on a 9mm round that already had to overcome over penetration with older bullet tech), and a few extra rounds of smaller diameter when we are already on the smaller caliber desired for handguns.

The tailwinds are growing for 9mm as military's are seemingly increasing on looking at it for additional CQB operations with more delayed gas system 9mm PCC's being developed and fielded. Not to mention moving forward with 9mm in their sidearms.

I like the 300BO but it really is splitting hairs when one compares it to a 9mm in CQB type settings. Weight savings, size of magazines for loadout, control-ability, and ammo sharing with sidearm are big pushes towards more acceptance of 9mm.
 
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PWC said:
I know nothing about the 10mm, but see it in all the threads now. Question: why was it unpopular then and now why is it becoming popular?

No need to do a deep dive, 20,000 ft level is ok.
Click to expand...

I think that people didn't expect any of the drawbacks of a magnum powered round to translate with the 10mm. They did, and it wasn't as easy to shoot well, law enforcement got adequate performance from 40 s&w, then ,9mm, and 10mm went from the super new perfect for any application round to expensive and almost abusive. But the benefits of a magnum powered round are still there, and the 10mm lends itself to semi platforms. So, people who understand the benefits and drawbacks and want/need the power in a semi platform are big supporters
 
Short version: the 10mm kicks too much, at least for people who don't want to get kicked, so LEO scores went into the toilet.

It still kicks too much for people who don't want to get kicked, but enthusiasts are discovering that it is a great way to get .357+ results from an autopistol.
 
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9mm Federal is still around in some sense. All of us ICORE and USPSA shooters shooting high pressure 38 Short Colt. Dimensionally they are nearly identical. Revolvers were on there way out as a CCW/duty gun there was no way the market was going to make a new revolver cartridge a success for that application.

10mm Auto appears to be on somewhat of a revival. It's never going to be a 9x19mm or 45 ACP but it does seem to be gaining market share lately.

40S&W is doing the mega flop given how meteoric its rise was, its flopping pretty hard core right now. SIG has completely drop 40S&W handguns from its line up. Most of the other handgun manufacture have greatly reduced the number of offerings it that caliber.

30 Super Carry is poised to flop but its still too early to know for sure.

I am still waiting on 11mm French Ordinance to make a revival!
 
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I will add the .357 Maximum to the list.
The 40 S&W had a pretty good run, I would say it's out of fashion now. How many revolvers were chambered in 38 S&W, how many are produced today ?
Speaking of 11MM French Ordnance, on another board a Canadian member said a gunsmith up there offered to convert a French M1873 to 45ACP-?
 
tarosean said:
There are literally millions of guns chambered in it. I dont think I would call that a flop
Click to expand...

The cartridge was not a flop as you point out there are millions of guns chambered for it. But the cartridge is flopping. The shear number of LEO and other groups moving away from the cartridge and the number of manufactures that are reducing and even eliminating firearms chamber in this cartridge points to a cartridge that is in serious decline.

Sig does not offer a 40S&W handgun.
Ruger does not offer a 40S&W handgun
Kimber does not offer a 40S&W handgun
Springfield armor offers 5 in 40S&W vs 63 in 9mm
S&W offers 10 in 40S&W vs 47 in 9mm
Glock offers 19 in 40S&W vs 32 in 9mm

ETA if it makes any difference I am a huge 40S&W fan and all but one of my semi-auto handguns is chambered in that cartridge.
 
.38 Special said:
Short version: the 10mm kicks too much, at least for people who don't to get kicked, so LEO scores went into the toilet.
Click to expand...

The 10mm was much like the .41MAG was in it's day. The Police load was too anemic, the full-house load was too much of a handful... and you are stuck with a large-frame pistol to handle it. Same-same with the 10mm.

I'll add my two... 9mm Magnum, and the .45 Magnum. I don't really know if those ever really even got off the ground, considering the Wildey never really did, either.
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
I will add the .357 Maximum to the list.
The 40 S&W had a pretty good run, I would say it's out of fashion now. How many revolvers were chambered in 38 S&W, how many are produced today ?
Speaking of 11MM French Ordnance, on another board a Canadian member said a gunsmith up there offered to convert a French M1873 to 45ACP-?
Click to expand...

Converting 455 Webleysto 45 ACP was a moderately bad idea I can't imagine that a French 1873 will take that abuse.
 
The 41 Magnum Police Load is far from anemic, it is equal to the 44 Special, 45 ACP, 45 Long Colt and since it has always been loaded with an SWC I'd say it's better than a 44 Special with an RNL. But it was introduced to fill that "caliber gap" that is only of interest to us pistoleros, it was chambered in S&W's N frame at a time when the large frame revolver had gone out of fashion. Jeff Cooper wrote of of one police department where the gun was too big for their lady cops, they had apparently adopted the full power round which "belted them around on their indoor range.."
 
mcb said:
Sig does not offer a 40S&W handgun.
Ruger does not offer a 40S&W handgun
Kimber does not offer a 40S&W handgun
Springfield armor offers 5 in 40S&W vs 63 in 9mm
S&W offers 10 in 40S&W vs 47 in 9mm
Glock offers 19 in 40S&W vs 32 in 9mm
Click to expand...
How many offer a gun chambered in .41 Action Express?

.41 AE introduced in 1988, unfortunately, S&W introduced the .40S&W in 1990. See ya, .41 AE ...
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
The 41 Magnum Police Load is far from anemic, it is equal to the 44 Special, 45 ACP, 45 Long Colt
Click to expand...

"Anemic" may have been a poor word choice... but I couldn't think of another word that would convey what I meant. I think the intention of the .41 Police Load was to better the .44SPC, .45ACP, and the .45 Colt, not be their equal. How about 'not as powerful as they had anticipated it to be... without going to the full-house .41MAG JHP/JSP?' They already had the .357MAG... and, of course, the .44SPC. A 4" Model 58 is a HANDFUL with full power .41's, and the as-issued Magna grips. I know, I have one.
 
I actually like 40S&W it has a lot of good characteristics on paper and the streets. The simple reason why I moved away from it is that 9mm maintains my cheap to shoot and ease to carry platforms and loadings that have proven themselves.

I like 10mm and it seemed redundant to carry 9mm, 40 S&W and 10mm ammo so the 40 got kicked for the sake of streamlining stockpiles.

I own some 45ACP just because of some nostalgia, but if I’m going to add a cartridge to the ammo shelves it’s likely to be something smaller in caliber such as 5.7x28, 22TCM or preferably someone picks up the 7.5FK in a platform that normal folks can stomach the costs on.
 
Riomouse911 said:
The .256 Win Mag, and the equally doomed Ruger Hawkeye single shot pistol, are at the top of my list for big ammo-handgun flops.

Stay safe.
Click to expand...
It may have been a flop in a handgun like the Ruger Super Black Hawk, but it shines in a T/C contender.
 
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