Rifle choice for all around use.

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SHWilliams

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I know this is an oft-asked question, but I'll try to provide more specifics to what I'm looking for than I've read elsewhere.

What I'm looking for is a rifle (or combination thereof within 25% of the same price) to accomplish the following:
  • Good for hunting deer and other medium-large game. I'm not a hunter, but would like the option, so want good accuracy and ability to comply with local hunting laws (Texas at present)
  • Ability to stake my life on it as a battle rifle in any condition.
  • Reliability, reliability, reliability. I don't want to have to bank on being able to clean it regularly and adequately if I have to hump it for untold miles
  • Ready availability of ammo, both for purchase, and "pick ups"
  • Availability of accessories and parts
  • Stopping power
  • Money is an object, but I'm not on a shoestring budget. For rifle + scope + 1k rounds I could live with around $2k
  • Would rather not modularize or combine rifles (unless it will save a crap ton of money) so that I can place the extra rifle in another pair of hands if needed

I'm operating under the assumption that I can afford ~$2k a year for guns, but also that I might not have time enough to finish my wish list before I need them, so should prioritize.

I might be moving to California, so I'd like the ability to make it California compliant, but this isn't a hard requirement since I might be staying in Texas.

I have handguns for personal/home defense, so don't need something to fit that bill, and I have an SKS as the current rifle which I'd need to use as a battle/hunting rifle. I don't think that's a stellar choice, but if anyone feels differently I'm all ears.

I've leaning strongly toward a .308, but am open to suggestion. If money were no object, and I hit the gun show tomorrow, I'd buy the following rifles for the following reasons:
  • CMMG AR-15: for 5.56/.223 pick ups, for battle and small game hunting, and because CMMG isn't on California's hit list, so could trick it out to make it compliant
  • Remington 700P bolt-action: for hunting, sniping, and 7.62 NATO/.308 pick ups
  • DSArms STG58 FAL: for pure kill-lots-of-bad-guys-and-make-sure-they-stay-down battle power as well as .308/7.62 NATO pick ups
  • AK-47: to have something better than my SKS for 7.62x.39 pick ups (and as a good alternate battle rifle to the AR or the FAL)
  • Remington 870 20ga shotgun: for bird hunting and bad-guy head vaporizing

I'm tempted to forgo the Remington 700P and the FAL and instead get a Springfield M1A Scout to serve the purposes of battle/deer hunting/7.62 NATO & .308 pick ups. I recognize that I'll be making concessions on both accuracy and magazine capacity (and having only one rifle instead of two), but would those concessions be all that much? Would they not be worth the $700 or so I'd save, or could it be considered a wash?

Thanks for your help and experience.
 
"SHTF" is a term we don't use around here and a topic we don't typically discuss since it is usually shorthand for "fantasy end of the world combat" like Red Dawn. That is too unrealistic to be treated seriously.

Picking a rifle that fits both hunting and defensive purposes isn't too difficult. Plenty of lever guns have comfortably filled both roles as have 03 Springfields, 6.5mm Mausers, etc. As long as you define what sort of hunting the rifle will be used for you can find rifles that fit the role in putting food on the table and filling a defensive role.

You're not going to be engaged in post apocalyptic combat so don't worry about "pick ups".

A 20 or 12 ga shotgun is about the most reasonable do all long gun around. Set up for slugs or shot it can put a lot of game on the table that none of the others can as efficiently. Their defensive uses have been proven from the very earliest blunderbus to the trenches of WWII to the cities of SW Asia.

So, forget the CounterStrike fantasy silliness and focus instead on a survival long gun that is handy to use (re: compact), light to carry, pointable as well as reasonable accuracy when aimed and in a caliber/gauge that will knock down deer if needed.
 
I would agree w/the M1A. It would best suit your purposes of all the ones above. The Remington 700 works as a hunting rifle, but for the rest of what you said it wouldn't be ideal.
The AR-15 is alright, bit small caliber for my tastes but it works and is fun, but isn't going to work for bigger game.
DSA STG-58-They're good rifles, but not great. For a little more money, go ahead and get an M1A.
AK-47-Fun, but no way in hell will it be a hunting gun. It would be irresponsible to hunt with it.
870-Fun, but not really good enough IMO.

The M1a scout would be the best. Get one in a synthetic stock and I'm sure you will be happy.
 
M1A would get my vote i've got one very accurate ...now i prob have only shot it 300rds or so but its never given me a problem.
 
One weapon that does it all is really a hard choice and one that many have a quandary over. I wish I would have purchased a 20 gauge instead of a 12 gauge due to the comfort level of shooting magnum shells. The 12 is not fun to shoot with slugs or 00 buck shot for me; mine is lite and tacticool but two shots and I am ready for the hospital and physical therapy. It does make much noise and blows things away really really well.

I would like to have a 7.62 or a 308 but due to the cost of the weapon platform in semi-auto and the cost of ammo ( I do not reload) I went a different way. When I finally made a purchase I personally decided on the AR in 223/5.56. Choice of ammo for different purposes, 40 round mags, weapon purchase cost, plus said ammo finally made the decision for me. Add a .22 conversion to the platform and you have a good cheap plinker and a more serious fire arm. I have shot wild boar with 14.5" ARs and 24" barreled ARs at considerable distances for my old eyes 250 yards+; moose has been knocked down with the 223/5.56 it is just shot placement. The choice of optics and ease of mounting them on an AR also contributed to my decision. Just my thoughts. I always liked the M-14 but again I bought a few ARs instead.
 
One weapon that does it all is hard to find because it doesn't exist really. People can try, but they will never use it for all purposes, neither will it be useful for all purposes. Thats why we have diversity.

Another option would be to get a Savage and a CMMG AR, would be about 2k, prob less.
 
In my mind's eye I do rather enjoy the 30-30 (or thuddy thuddy for some) lever actions (Marlin, Winchester :D, and etc) and the M-1 carbines (universal, cmp, etc.)

Both provide good medium range ballistics, ammo is common (especially for the 30-30), easy to have it worked on, good data, and reliable under all sorts of awful conditions. Other things include the fact that in our ever so PC world, no one's gonna raise as much a fuss if you end up having to use 'Granddad's ol deer rifle/bringback' and that both are relatively affordable to get. I mean you can get a couple of either type for the price of one AR or such.

And one of the big things for me is weight. I've more than once lugged a 10+ rifle around but it gets kinda old after doing it all day. This is especially true if you need to climb or crawl or whatnot. A heavy gun kinda just...well, weighs you down even when slung. A 30-30 or an M1 is going to generally weigh far short of that and that's a big plus in my book for a general rifle.
 
The sks is a hunting platform that will be fine for any game/varmints you may come across where you live, and 7.62x39 is a fairly inexpensive cartrige. You can get a remmington or mossberg pump and a .22LR plinker for a grand total of less than 700 bucks. Ammo for the .22 doesn't cost anything and shotgun shells are pretty inexpensive, plus you will have a complete colletion, a plinker, a hunting rifle, a shotgun, and a selection of pistols... Have at it, man. Buy 2!
 
I will throw this one out there because of all the different ways you could configure it:

http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html

You could mount a traditional scope and hunt if you want to, put a red dot on the front mount for SHTF stuff and it is CA compliant. It does no one thing perfect, but it can be dress up to do a bunch of other things well...just a thought
 
I love 30-30 and many other guns. I'm fortunate to be financially well off, and can have a lot of rifles and calibers. But the original poster has picked a very difficult scenario. An all-in-one gun/caliber for hunting and a feces against the oscillating blades scenario. The 30-30 would be my 2nd choice, but my first choice would be a military .308 caliber. Something like the FAL or Cetme. 20 round magazines for the defensive issue, but a caliber that can take out deer, elk, moose, hog, antelope, bear, and just about anything else you can think of. Here's a good link.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/rifle-fal.aspx

The problem with .223 (AR15) is that the bullet is too light for most hunting. Even though some people hunt deer with it, I would never do it. It's too inhumane if it isn't a perfect shot. Plus, many states won't let you hunt deer and bigger game with such a small caliber. The problem with the 30-30 and similar, is it's limited magazine capacity if you need it for the whole Shiite and the Muslim hitting the fan scenario. But the .308 is a military trusted caliber. The good ole Nato 7.62. Get ammo in any walmart or sporting good store. 20 round magazines take care of the bad guys and hunting. And for $699, it's a great price. You can get a cetme in .308 nato for $499. Anyway; a military .308 is what I would do. Magazine capacity and a great hunting caliber. (If my M1 Garand held more than 8 rounds, I'd pick that. But it doesn't).
 
This general question is almost worthy of a sticky, since it seems to come up so much, and since some people asking it appear to be sincere while others appear to be 12 yo's home sick and having played too many video games.
 
I'm split on this one. On one hand I really want to recommend an inexpensive bolt action in .308 or 30-06.

On the other hand I want to recommend a saiga .308.

However since both can be had for under the $2000 limit, get both, and pocket the change?
 
Z-Michigan said:
This general question is almost worthy of a sticky, since it seems to come up so much, and since some people asking it appear to be sincere while others appear to be 12 yo's home sick and having played too many video games.
Click to expand...
Well, the OP can at least spell right, so I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt :)
 
How about an AR-10 with an aimpoint and detachable 3x magnifier? Or a SCAR 17 with the same gear, if your budget is higher?

You get high capacity, accuracy, reliability, and the long distance needed for hunting.
 
Other guys suggested it first.

An SKS, maybe with a Tech Sight ($75).

If you find a serious discount, I don't know about its accuracy, but you might consider an AIA "Jungle Carbine" in 7.62x39 (low-priced ammo, at least for a short while).
It is a recent Australian imitation.

These are supposedly difficult to find, and I've only seen one-
handled it at the Gander Mountain in Saginw, February '09 and it was listed for about $750:(.
An actual very good "Jungle Carbine" :) might cost about $400-500.
 
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Look into the FNAR family of firearms. I would go with the shorter 16 inch version instead of the "Heavy" for your applications, since you mentioned having to carry it around a lot. The shorter barrel wont affect your relative accuracy, but will in point and fact affect your terminal velocity. They are in .308 so that should make you happy. I know the "Moderator" said that we dont use the "SHTF" term around here so hows about we put this in perspective.

Why is it that we are able to sit here and argue about what kind of fancy do-dads we should put on our guns? Why is it that the 2nd amendment exists in the first place? Because of the Militia. Not the skin-headed, sorry excuse for "militia" that give it a bad name. A Militia is NOTHING more than free and armed citizens that are prepared to stand up and defend this land we call home. A Militiaman is YOU. Free men own guns, slaves do not. Nobody is willing to try and take away the freedom of a man holding a gun and saying "oh, no you dont."

Edit------------

Nevermind, I missed the part where you said you might be moving to the Liberalist Republic of California. Perhaps a Henry US Survival Rifle? Or is that on Cali's naughty list? haha, sorry I used to live in Cali. I hated every minute that I was forced to live there.
 
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Thanks to all for your replies. I don't play video games, but I am a student of history, and for what it's worth, I'm thinking less Russian paratroopers and more Mexican cartels/Coyote on border towns and L.A./Katrina style breakdown of law and order.

I've considered a shotgun with slugs for longer range fire, but honestly don't know much about shotguns. My primary concern is being stuck having to reload too frequently if using the gun for fighting. And how is the accuracy compared to hunting rifles (and effective range?) If it meets my purposes, any recommendations for specific guns? And would I be shooting myself in the foot, so to speak, if I got a 20ga vs. 12ga?

Many thanks.
 
Regardless of the rifle you choose, I still think you need to invest in a good shotgun (Remington 870 or Mossy 500/590); I picked up a practically new Mossberg 500 combo 12ga with both an 18.5" smooth bore and 28" multi-choke barrel for just over $300 (I picked my son up the 20ga combo for $250).

As for the rifle, I would really consider the M1A. My Bush model has been set up as a "scout" and it my hunting rifle. It's a little on the heavy side, but still manageable in the field. 7.62/.308 is a very capable and general purpose round. Biggest benefit is the availability...surplus ammo is always nice, but you can usually find several boxes in most sporting goods stores.

MIA.jpg

Another option would be an AR with either a 6.8mm SPC or 6.5mm Grendel. This would give you better ballistics for longer ranges and avoid the minimum-caliber restriction for many states which don't allow .22 caliber for hunting. The AR platform is more than capable to serve as a hunting rifle and defensive rifle and the modular design does help with adding optics or lights, etc. The 6.Xmm is getting some popularity, but not widely distributed. When it comes to ammo, don't expect "pick ups"; I would only rely on what you have stashed and on-hand.

ROCK6
 
The idea that sudden combat will be protracted long enough to worry about reloading is a bit much.

You need a pistol on you 24/7 to fight to a long rifle near you. The .30-30 lever does meet not only all of the contradictory and somewhat unrealistic goals, it also makes it obvious to any others who may come to your aid that you might not be the bad guy.

Tactical HSLD weapons are used by those who either already know the answer, or wannabes and gang thugs. Not a good choice if you need to look like another civilian just dodging bullets and trying to avoid the whole mess. Get a CCW if possible, research an adequate carry pistol, polymer with double stack ammo, buy the .30-30, which has ammo at almost any location that actually sells some. Spend the rest of the money on self defense hand to hand classses.

The most likely encounter will be a sudden attack by a meth head druggie simply wanting cash, learn to dress down, not flash cash, what counterstrikes are worthwhile, and when it's better to simply run. Engaging multiple gangbangers in urban combat is usually a bad thing, those results are listed in the paper daily. They pick a time and place to ambush their victim for a reason. Don't help them in any way.

The best option may simply be to move out of the apparently threatening area currently lived in for more peaceful surroundings. It's what most of us really do.
 
I vote for the Ruger Mini-30. It will work for all of your needs and still be California friendly should you move there. The ammo can do double duty with your existing SKS.
 
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