madcratebuilder
Member
M1A
You can't beat SA's life time warranty.
You can't beat SA's life time warranty.
.308 Battle Rifle Poll
- Thread starter spartanpride
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Z-Michigan
Member
Well, you could equal it, with the lifetime warranties from DS Arms (FN-FAL, SA58 model) and Armalite (AR-10).
MTMilitiaman
Member
I'll cast another vote for the M1A.
The AR-10 may be more accurate, in general, and will be easier to scope. But these rifles are also going to be generally less reliable, and there are so many different designs out there, you can't be sure parts or even mags are going to be interchangeable.
The FAL may, possibly, be more reliable. But it won't be as accurate, and what's more, it will be more difficult to shoot to its potential due to its inferior sights and trigger. The M1A's sights and trigger make it a dream to shoot, and almost effortless to hit with, in my experience. And while I haven't torture tested my baby, my M1A has only had two malfunctions in the 1200 rounds or so I've put through it--both attributed to the same mag, which I marked and discarded. I've had no issues since. Carried the rifle around the woods this hunting season so it saw plenty of inclement weather. Didn't seem to notice. Funny, my grandpa said the M1 Garand didn't seem to mind the snow and ice it saw in Korea either.
I don't understand people's affection for the HK roller locks, but then, I've never shot one. Handling them, they offer the worst ergonomics and balance of the four, by far. It's the only one that doesn't offer a BHO. Among those who have shot all the designs mentioned, it is almost unanimously agreed that the roller lock has the most severe recoil. It takes far more attention than any of the others to get "shootable," that is, you don't have to give an M1A or AR a trigger job, nor have the goofy mag release changed back to something you can use. Then again, you don't have to modify your any of the other rifles to get them not to chew up your brass. And do you really want to compare the durability of the only stamped sheet metal receiver in the group to any of the others?
If mounting optics is a possibility, give Springfield's Cluster Rail System a look. It is the same rail made by Vltor and distributed exclusively through SA that they include on their SOCOM II rifles. While it can make the rifle muzzle heavy, this is true of most rail systems on most rifles, be they ARs, AKs, or otherwise. It provides a low profile, uninterrupted rail at the 12 o' clock that is 17 inches or so in length and runs from the stripper clip guide to the front of the stock--making a rifle so equipped easier to scope than probably many ARs. You may still have to select ring height working around the rear sight, and you may still have to get a cheek piece to adjust your comb height, but that's neither difficult nor expensive. The Cluster Rail also provides shorter rails at the 3 and 9 o' clock for accessories like lights and lasers, and a removable bottom rail for attaching a VFG or bipod. If Springfield will install this rail system on my M1A, I think I might have to have them--I've looked and this is by far the best thing going for optics mounts on an M1A, without dropping it into a Sage or other chassis system. It's also low enough to allow use of irons with optics removed.
If you're looking for sub-MOA accuracy right out of the box, you may want to get an AR-10. But if the 1.5 to 2 MOA accuracy an OTB M1A is going to offer with cheap 147 gr milsurp will suffice, the M1A is where it is at. It's an American icon and true "rifleman's rifle," and I have quickly grown very fond of mine...
The AR-10 may be more accurate, in general, and will be easier to scope. But these rifles are also going to be generally less reliable, and there are so many different designs out there, you can't be sure parts or even mags are going to be interchangeable.
The FAL may, possibly, be more reliable. But it won't be as accurate, and what's more, it will be more difficult to shoot to its potential due to its inferior sights and trigger. The M1A's sights and trigger make it a dream to shoot, and almost effortless to hit with, in my experience. And while I haven't torture tested my baby, my M1A has only had two malfunctions in the 1200 rounds or so I've put through it--both attributed to the same mag, which I marked and discarded. I've had no issues since. Carried the rifle around the woods this hunting season so it saw plenty of inclement weather. Didn't seem to notice. Funny, my grandpa said the M1 Garand didn't seem to mind the snow and ice it saw in Korea either.
I don't understand people's affection for the HK roller locks, but then, I've never shot one. Handling them, they offer the worst ergonomics and balance of the four, by far. It's the only one that doesn't offer a BHO. Among those who have shot all the designs mentioned, it is almost unanimously agreed that the roller lock has the most severe recoil. It takes far more attention than any of the others to get "shootable," that is, you don't have to give an M1A or AR a trigger job, nor have the goofy mag release changed back to something you can use. Then again, you don't have to modify your any of the other rifles to get them not to chew up your brass. And do you really want to compare the durability of the only stamped sheet metal receiver in the group to any of the others?
If mounting optics is a possibility, give Springfield's Cluster Rail System a look. It is the same rail made by Vltor and distributed exclusively through SA that they include on their SOCOM II rifles. While it can make the rifle muzzle heavy, this is true of most rail systems on most rifles, be they ARs, AKs, or otherwise. It provides a low profile, uninterrupted rail at the 12 o' clock that is 17 inches or so in length and runs from the stripper clip guide to the front of the stock--making a rifle so equipped easier to scope than probably many ARs. You may still have to select ring height working around the rear sight, and you may still have to get a cheek piece to adjust your comb height, but that's neither difficult nor expensive. The Cluster Rail also provides shorter rails at the 3 and 9 o' clock for accessories like lights and lasers, and a removable bottom rail for attaching a VFG or bipod. If Springfield will install this rail system on my M1A, I think I might have to have them--I've looked and this is by far the best thing going for optics mounts on an M1A, without dropping it into a Sage or other chassis system. It's also low enough to allow use of irons with optics removed.
If you're looking for sub-MOA accuracy right out of the box, you may want to get an AR-10. But if the 1.5 to 2 MOA accuracy an OTB M1A is going to offer with cheap 147 gr milsurp will suffice, the M1A is where it is at. It's an American icon and true "rifleman's rifle," and I have quickly grown very fond of mine...
TDECK
Member
People keep knocking the HK G3 or HK 91 for being sheet metal but ignore that it has been reported by many who have used this rifle in service that they are very durable with the charging handle being the weak link. I have read reports from Nordic soldiers who state that the G3 is extremely durable in arctic conditions. Lets not forget that most AK rifles are stamped and have a legendary reputation for strength and reliability. Even firearms authorities who dont like the G3 acknowledge that it is very durable. The HK G3 magazines are robust, very high quality, and dirt cheap. I hate rifles with flimsy magazines. It can ruin a otherwise great rifle design. Please stop comparing a actual HK 91 to a knock off, they are not the same. All battle rifles discussed are more than capable and it really comes down to which one you shoot the best.
Maverick223
Member
I disagree WRT the PTR-91, it is made on the same tooling and is just as good as a genuine HK-91 IMO.
TDECK
Member
My point is that some one will shoot a HK 91 copy and have problems with it and then go on a board and say it is a HK product. Your PTR may be just as good but there should always be a distinction between an HK product and one that was built elsewhere. There are some real junkers out there!
Maverick223
Member
I have neither (and personally I prefer the FAL for the same role), but I have experience with both, and could tell no discernible difference between the two save for expense. OTOH I have seen several Century CETMEs with problems.
MTMilitiaman
Member
Some of them being "real" HKs...
That's the point I was getting at, BTW. It's made by HK, so therefore, we will ignore that it may be merely just another stamped sheet metal receiver with crappy ergonomics, a bad trigger, and no BHO. [sarcasm] We can't compare it to the AK, because the AK is mass produced Eastern Bloc Commie Crap, and the G3 is a top-tier German engineered Western uber-rifle [/end sarcasm]. And because it has "HK" on it, we'll ignore that doesn't have the ergonomics or features of the other rifles because in a world of compromise...
Float Pilot
Member
M1As tend to be fairly accurate out of the box.Particularly the full length version. (for which the entire system was originally designed) And there are LOTS of parts and magazines available across the US. ALTHOUGH, an M1A is not as nice as a REAL M-14. Knock off magazines can cause troubles.
A REAL FAL is pretty nice, and they are very, very, reliable in crappy conditions. Their sights are not as fine as an M1A /M14 and they tend to not be as accurate. Mounting a scope on the dust cover is not really an accurate option. Due to the glut of knock-offs and parts guns, buying a brand X FAL is like going to Las Vegas.
Real HK G-3s are not really tack drivers either, and as in all things HK they tend to be over-engineered. Nor are they particularly light in weight. I have only ever fired real G3s so I have no idea or interest in a knock-off.
Only the Germans could make a rifle with 40 parts when 25 would do just fine.
AR-10. I have only ever fired a real AR-10. A Sudanese version. I had to trade the guys a six pack of cold soda and clean his filthy dirty rifle. The original AR-10s were super light, (like the old M-16s) And it was pretty accurate using de-linked m80 machine gun ammo. I tried firing it full auto and it was not controllable due to the very light forward end. But as a rifle to carry in 100 degree heat it would be a real dream.
I have played around with some of the new AR-10 sized rifles just to fondle them. They all weigh much more than the originals. So much so that they no longer have any advantage over the M1A. Plus this whole deal with variations in magazines between brands looks like a real problem.
A REAL FAL is pretty nice, and they are very, very, reliable in crappy conditions. Their sights are not as fine as an M1A /M14 and they tend to not be as accurate. Mounting a scope on the dust cover is not really an accurate option. Due to the glut of knock-offs and parts guns, buying a brand X FAL is like going to Las Vegas.
Real HK G-3s are not really tack drivers either, and as in all things HK they tend to be over-engineered. Nor are they particularly light in weight. I have only ever fired real G3s so I have no idea or interest in a knock-off.
Only the Germans could make a rifle with 40 parts when 25 would do just fine.
AR-10. I have only ever fired a real AR-10. A Sudanese version. I had to trade the guys a six pack of cold soda and clean his filthy dirty rifle. The original AR-10s were super light, (like the old M-16s) And it was pretty accurate using de-linked m80 machine gun ammo. I tried firing it full auto and it was not controllable due to the very light forward end. But as a rifle to carry in 100 degree heat it would be a real dream.
I have played around with some of the new AR-10 sized rifles just to fondle them. They all weigh much more than the originals. So much so that they no longer have any advantage over the M1A. Plus this whole deal with variations in magazines between brands looks like a real problem.
TDECK
Member
The G3 is not my favorite but I believe that it matches the criteria of the original thread. He asked for a .308, reliability, accuracy, and plenty of spare parts. I would say a quality G3 type rifle would fulfill his specific requirements more than any other rifle mentioned.
Question:
Can you shoot .308 in a FAL (Not DSA FAL) and M1A? I seem to recall an instruction manual someone once posted on the Springfield M1A in which it said to only shoot 7.62x51mm (they are not really the same). Is .308 ok in the older FALs?
http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html
Can you shoot .308 in a FAL (Not DSA FAL) and M1A? I seem to recall an instruction manual someone once posted on the Springfield M1A in which it said to only shoot 7.62x51mm (they are not really the same). Is .308 ok in the older FALs?
http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html
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Springfield says you can shoot .308 as long as its not over 174grain pills. Mine is a preban 89 made so I don't know if I'm going to shoot .308 through it yet. My receiver heel is stamped 7.62mm so I think I'm gonna give Springfield a call tomorrow to ask for sure.
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Maverick223
Member
.308Win. should be fine for the FAL, but the primers may be too soft for the M1A (may cause a slamfire). If you shoot hot and heavy fodder it can also crack the heel of the M1A (new receiver time).
Let us know what they tell you. I've got a friend that's considering an M1A and sooner or later (when I get bored with M4's) I'll be looking at M1A's and FALs.
Do you see any difference between the current M1A's and your model?
Talked to Debbie at Springfield Armory today and she said absolutely you can shoot .308 up to 174grains. Patriotme, only difference I see mine having from current production Standard model's is that mine is all USGI except for receiver and stock. Newer production models may have some USGI parts but Springfield does use some of their own parts now. Oh I forgot one thing mine does have the Flash Hider with the bayonet lug which they no longer put FH's with bayonet lugs on their rifles but there are plenty of USGI FH's out there if you are wanting a bayonet lug.
MeanStreaker
Member
After looking at everything out there, I went with the M1A for my battle rifles. Best rifle ever designed and it's held up to everything I've thrown at it in all conditions.
Every American needs a .30 caliber semi-auto. (But I choose the M1A for me.)
Every American needs a .30 caliber semi-auto.
(But I choose the M1A for me.)Maximo
Member
it does not matter to me which setup I would be given to use.....I prefer the 7.62/ .308 caliber over most everything else. I use to shoot 7 x 57 for years, until I was introduced to the 7.62. It has a great record for getting the job done. just imo..... maximo
maximospartanpride
Member
One question about the M1A, seeing how they seem to be superbly accurate, would you shoot cheap steal cased ammo through your beloved M1A? Or would you just stick with brass cased, as they seem to be a bit easier on parts?
USAFRetired
Member
I think we should do like the Swiss and issue every (qualified) male citizen a 7.62 weapon.
(Do they still do that?)
(Do they still do that?)
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