Shotgun for Polar bear defence

I'd go with an 18" barrel smoothbore and 2 3/4" Brenneke slugs.

http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/253.html

rc

I have heard a 12 ga loaded with Brenneke sabot slugs should do the trick - get the rifled barrel with rifle sights.
Another option is the new CZ 557 Carbine, 4 round internal magazine, available in 30-06 and .308, which I, (in my VERY inexpert view), would think is enough for polar bear, AND won't upset most native laws, being a bolt action rifle, also having iron sights. Czech it out here,

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/CZ557Carbine/

rcmodel said:

I'd go with an 18" barrel smoothbore and 2 3/4" Brenneke slugs.

http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/253.html

rc

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Pretty much echo the above. Since we are talking about the biggest baddest bears, I might even kick it up to the Brenneke Black Magic 3in magnum slugs if you can find them. I have shot a lot of the 2 3/4 Special Forces Magnum slugs. They are no joke either.

Forget a longer rifled barrel...18 in smoothbore is just right. Do not recommend saboted ammo.

The penetrative nature of the slug is just as important as ballistics. Brenneke makes the best hardcast lead alloy I've ever used...perfectly designed for a smoothbore...and great penetrators.

A Marlin 1895 guide gun in 45-70 might be a better option.

dak0ta said:

A Marlin 1895 guide gun in 45-70 might be a better option.

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Another option certainly...but how much better with the right slugs is debatable. A proper guide gun is certainly going to be more expensive.

I'd be happy with either.

I have built some shotguns for Puddle Jumper Pilots in AK and they opted for smooth bore 18.5" with tritium rifle sights or a tritum bead. They carry slugs and small shot as one told me if they go down it could be some time before they are picked upped and want bear protect but the ability to take small game for food. He also told me he has flares that shoot out a 12ga shotgun and he has them in the cabin of his plane also. So he has a multi purpose gun.

Mossberg 930 with 26" barrel and a Nordic Components tube extension...10 shells (2 3/4") in the tube and one in the chamber.

A rifled barrel and sights are totally unnecessary on a bear defense gun. The longest shot you would ever take in a true defensive encounter would be a few paces. I would go with the shortest barrel you can get with a simple bead sight, and the best slugs you can buy.

Polar Bear? With all the reading and people I have discussed the bear/rifle combo topic with, those that have really been in bear country recommend a peep sighted repeatable rifle starting in the .30 cals and up.

Obviously you have to look at what's practical, but Polar bears are some of the biggest in the world! I've given it a lot of thought for myself because I'd love to move to Alaska one day but if it were me I'd go with this-

http://www.remington.com/en/products/firearms/centerfire/model-7600/model-7600-synthetic.aspx

In 30-06.

And I would also have a 44 mag on my hip.

Whatever you choose, make sure you practice with it and get it in the vitals. Whatever ammo you use, make sure it penetrates. Good luck!

Read this first.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

Short version; slugs are poor performers on large bear. A 45-70 is vastly over rated with recoil exceeding 375 magnum in light rifles and the best loads. A RIFLE in 375 magnum is where you start getting best performance. The best combination of reasonable recoil and performance was a 30-06 loaded with heavy 220 gr bullets. A 338 magnum offers only slightly better, if any, performance with much more recoil

I'm gonna toss the idea out of putting a Knoxx recoil reducing stock on it.

Here's my reasoning:

1. you'll want practice and the springs really do significantly reduce recoil so that both practice shooting and follow-ups come much quicker. the follow-up shots may be necessary for a bear that big and seconds count.

2. the pistol grip makes the trigger pull more naturally aligned with your fingers and i've found that i'm more accurate with it.

best of luck. be careful. watch out for the crevasses. sounds like some cool flying. I was in Greenland last summer....similar landscape and it's burned into my memory.

That forest service PDF was interesting, but it was dated 1983. Ammunition has come a long way since then.

I'd be happier with a heavy rifle, but a shotgun offers the options of shot and flares, as mentioned above. If you choose a shotgun, I'd agree an 18" smoothbore would be the way to go.

The Brennekes in a 18.5 inch Remington 870 with bead or tritium bead sight should work great.

Keep in mind that this will be for Polar Bear Defense, not Polar Bear Hunting. For that I would want a .375 H&H.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I agree with the 18" smoothbore shotgun with Brenneke slugs, shotshells and flares kit and wish you not to use it!

Once you've chosen your shotgun, something equally important is your choice of ammo.

Regardless the slug you choose...make certain your shot-shells are relatively moisture proof. Some are....some are not!

Sounds like you will be flying into potentially harsh conditions, so you will need reliable ammo. Consider the WORST scenario you can imagine for yourself and let that dictate your needs.

Good luck Sir!

Flint.

If it were me I would roll my own BPI dgs slugs, but there really is no need to read past post #2. You should'nt even consider the rifled tube as an option as it pretty much limits the weapons use.

Read this first.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

Short version; slugs are poor performers on large bear. A 45-70 is vastly over rated with recoil exceeding 375 magnum in light rifles and the best loads. A RIFLE in 375 magnum is where you start getting best performance. The best combination of reasonable recoil and performance was a 30-06 loaded with heavy 220 gr bullets. A 338 magnum offers only slightly better, if any, performance with much more recoil

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Something tells me you didn't look at that report very well. The only thing that out-penetrated the 20" 400-gr .45-70 rifle was a .460 Weatherby. The .375 Magnum produced 37.2 and 41.1 ft-lbs of recoil with the two loads tested. The short-barreled .45-70 had 13.6 ft-lbs of recoil, tying it for second-lowest recoiling platform in that report.

That report isn't that great anyway. A) They tested penetration in boxes full of wet saw dust and silt. B) The weighting system obviously isn't that great if the second-highest penetrating round with the second-lowest recoil shows up fourth from last.

Poor performer?
Wonder why it is the AST and AF&G all use a 12 ga slug gun & Brennekes for brown bear & moose dispatching?

Lowest bidder You say?
I hardly think so!

A Brenneke slug will put Atilla The Huns horse on his back, four feet in the air, DRT!

As for 2 3/4" vs 3" slugs?

I'd rather have one more round in the mag with 2 3/4" then a little more power with 3" that kicks too hard for fast follow-up shots any day of the week!

rc

The 30-06 with 200 gr or better is highest rated as Rem44 said the 7600 pump rifle would be my first choice, next a 12 gauge with high velocity slugs. If it were me I would go with a rifled slug barrel and Winchester sabots because in my gun they do best and you have the option of shot placement at a little more range. I would chose a 12 Gauge over a 45/70 because it is more powerful and a pump is faster shooting for me than a lever because I hunt with shotguns a lot. A heavy high speed round with a proper tough expanding bullet will have far more stopping power than a round under 2000 fps, or a round that passes through without expansion. this has been proven many times over.

I'm with RC on this one, I'll take Brenneke's and an 870.

Lot of blah blah blah about bear protection and this vs. that and Win Mag vs. Lott and .375 vs. '06 and... it never ends. Here's really the only definitive thing... Alaska fish and game, who is in contact with big bears more than any other group of people, uses Brenneke's and an 870. If they're confident with it, I would be. Good luck, and bring a nice camera and get some shots OF some polar bears when you're not taking shots AT them.

All of my hunting experience with a shotgun was mostly hunting two legged animals so I won't attempt to comment on shooting bears...

but I do know a thing or two about flares and every time I hear someone tout a 12ga flare - my teeth hurt.... Folks if you're ever really needing a flare the only flares worth having are the ones I keep on my guide skiff (I've been a full time fishing guide down in south Florida now for over 18 years...). Go by your nearest marine hardware store and pick up a few SOLAS type red handheld flares - and also include at least one SOLAS parachute flare. No, they're not cheap (each handheld will be 9 or 10 bucks -the para will be around $50 each). The SOLAS designation stands for "safety of life at sea" and they're mandatory for ocean crossing vessels. Here's the important part for anyone really needing rescue -they'll fire off in a heavy rainstorm when nothing else will, they're much, much brighter and the para will go twice as high in the air and stay up there almost three times longer than a puny 12ga or the slightly bigger 25mm shell... By the way, they're even waterproof if you and your flare are in the water....

All those years ago when I took the course to get my captain's license they showed us a side by side comparison of all the flares on the market -the difference between the SOLAS type flares (any brand will do...) and everthing else was just striking (no pun intended). Of course you only pop a flare when you know there's someone within range to see it....

A heavy high speed round with a proper tough expanding bullet will have far more stopping power than a round under 2000 fps, or a round that passes through without expansion. this has been proven many times over.

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I think that has been demonstrated for "hunting" but isn't necessarily true for a situation like this where you will be playing defense. What you're saying makes sense when you get to pick your shots, but that won't be the case with a polar bear unless you want to go to prison. In Africa on something like a Cape Buffalo, from what I have always read it is common to either use all solids or a soft point followed by solids. The first soft point is for when you can possibly hit him broadside because he doesn't know you are there and you can pick a well-aimed heart-lung shot. The remaining solids are for when he is charging you while firing with less precision and a dire need to hit something vital. On a charging buffalo or polar bear, I don't think you'd have to worry about something passing through without causing much damage. I don't think you'd have to worry about many cartridges passing through at all head to tail. Rather I think you'd be worried about penetration. In cases like this, there is a lot to be said for large diameter bullets with plenty of penetration.

rcmodel said:

poor performer?
Wonder why it is the ast and af&g all use a 12 ga slug gun & brennekes for brown bear & moose dispatching?

Lowest bidder you say?
I hardly think so!

A brenneke slug will put atilla the huns horse on his back, four feet in the air, drt!

As for 2 3/4" vs 3" slugs?

I'd rather have one more round in the mag with 2 3/4" then a little more power with 3" that kicks too hard for fast follow-up shots any day of the week!

Rc

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+1

For this purpose, i'd take a shotgun/slugs over ANY lever gun!

DM