Media notices Civil Rights issue with 4473

zdc1775 said:

I was just checking the national news during lunch and came across this gem. News article. Seems that the major media corporations and the ACLU has just noticed that the 4473 requires buyers to disclose race and ethnicity.

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So do my passport and driver's license applications. I see the point of the article and agree with it, but asking about race in and of itself isn't off limits, no?

I saw the news article as well.
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It does make you wonder why they even ask that for the background check- especially if they're really not keeping any database. Of course, it seems like the government does an about face on civil rights when they intersect with gun rights.

What about place of birth? Why is that important when they already have all your information in front of them?

I asked and FFL about this and get a load of his response. He said anyone checking Latino is basically getting wait listed. It began happening right after the first Dreamer exec order Obama passed. Would love to hear if anyone else has more knowledge or insight on this

hell they ask it on any form, think about it.

I have always thought it strange that you check your race. Then it asks you specifically if you are Hispanic or Not Hispanic.

Is leaving a section unanswered as expected cause for rejection?
Or does it go unnoticed like it does with lots of other official paper work?
Like paying by bank check and forgetting to sign it.

4473 you have to answer them all or the ffl will tell you, you missed this.

2nd ad. Nut, Latino or Hispanic is an ethnicity. That is why it is seperated from race, or so I was told... I'm not sure what the difference is or why they ask. Seems like a silly question to ask when most people could answer any way they see fit and how would anyone prove otherwise.

I think race and ethnicity should absolutely be removed from all "applications" and IDs.

After all, we're in an age where it's not supposed to matter and all of us know of individuals whose appearance defies their applicable Ethno-Racial categories and that's no longer an unusual exception.

For that matter - the gender specifications should be dropped as well before that too becomes a 4-8 option block.

Race, ethnicity, POB, and things like that can all help reduce the possibility of false positives (whether or not they are being used for that reason is another conversation). That being said, it should be optional like SSN.

He said anyone checking Latino is basically getting wait listed

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A friend of mine is Cuban and didn't get wait listed. He checked Latino, but is a citizen.

MagnunJoe said:

What about place of birth? Why is that important when they already have all your information in front of them?

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That is used as part of the process of differentiating YOU from people with similar names.

He said anyone checking Latino is basically getting wait listed .

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Horse plop! Find a new FFL ... that one is a moron.

Collecting race and ethnicity has been required by federal law since 1997, I forget the name of the law. BATFE and the Dept of Education are just about the last federal agencies to start collecting the data. Think about it, most government forms you're required to fill out have been asking for this info for years. And yes, it's probably used by someone to show that a particular race/ethnicity is being unfairly represented or mistreated, but I'd rather not get into that.

The reason that a 4473 asks for gender and place of birth is to make sure that the male "Bobby Smith" from CO isn't confused with the female "Bobby Smith" from NE.

The ethnicity question is simply another identifier. "White" Bob Smith has a domestic violence misdemeanor but "black" Bob Smith has a clean record. They live in the same town.

zdc1775 I was just checking the national news during lunch and came across this gem. News article. Seems that the major media corporations and the ACLU has just noticed that the 4473 requires buyers to disclose race and ethnicity

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It was "news" when the 4473 was updated TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO.

Any "news" person with a high schoolers research skills would have discovered that ALL FEDERAL FORMS changed in April 2012.

The primary reason being that 'Race & Ethnicity" was a multiple choice question that combined both categories. Meaning many, if not all Hispanics would only check "Hispanic" and not choose a race. For those that have forgotten what they learned in Jr High, a person can not be just "Hispanic".....you can be black, white Asian or whatever AND Hispanic.

This has been beaten to death in threads on THR dating back to two years ago.

When I was drafted into the Army in 1953 race and religion were stamped into our metal dogtags. Don't know how much farther back that practice went.

I wasn't saying that it is wrong just pointing out the media just noticed this and is trying to make a big deal out of it now. Two years after the change took place.

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Okay, so what? Did you call up and inform the media when you first noticed the issue? Do you think the media goes around and checks all of the government forms for civil rights violations?

Even though the media didn't catch it right away, it is still a problem. Since the media caught it now, do you think it should have been ignored, or would that be considered an intentional oversight by the "liberal media" to cover up the issue?

They are rather darned if they do and darned if they don't, huh?

Mmmmmm?

So it was added due to the Paper-Work reduction Act of 1995.
19 years later?

the Office of Management and Budget "required ATF to make changes to the format of the questions during the standard Paperwork Reduction Act approval process" in 2012.

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Somewhere around here, I have copies of a few 4473 forms from around 1968-70 something.
At that time, it was a single page form.

Just now, I down-loaded a 4473 from the ATF website.

And now it's two pages of questions, and three pages of instructions.

Using my primitive counting skills?
Thats four more pages then it started out with in 1968!

Paper-Work Reduction Act my south end!

rc

mgkdrgn said:

That is used as part of the process of differentiating YOU from people with similar names.

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So it's create a separate different database. How nice. How many people have the exact name and exact birth date?

What's this "race" nonsense.

There's only one Human Race. It's the racists that say otherwise

Ethnicity, that's fine and valid.