When you have no plan

I live in a safe town so I

  • Let anyone in my household answer the door

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Answer the door myself but don't have a plan

    Votes: 4 7.3%

  • Answer the door myself but am somewhat prepared

    Votes: 10 18.2%

  • I'm always friendly but always armed and prepared

    Votes: 41 74.5%
  • Total voters
    55
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I live in a safe town, however, I
  • Almost never use the front door (we use the garage), so it stays locked with few exceptions
  • Have a "No Solicitors" sign posted on my door, which sharply reduced the number of knocks by strangers, not to mention junky advertisements etc various groups used to leave hanging on the door handle
  • Disconnected the doorbell on request of my wife, who would be woken up by people ringing the doorbell during the daytime (not that she would ever go answer the door alone)
So the only time I would open the front door is if it was an expected guest, or if someone was persistently knocking (on the storm door, which is locked). The neighbors have my number and can text/call anytime.

If I decide to open the door to a stranger, I either have a loaded pistol in my hand, casually held behind my back, or held by my wife, just out of view of the visitor, but trained in the direction of the door, in case they try any funny business. Fortunately, I can count on one hand how often that happens each year, but we have a plan (as opposed to the thread title). :thumbup:
 
Kleanbore said:
Of course not! You misunderstand.

Home invasions do happen, but statistically, they are really very unlikely. Five in six months for 200,000 households does not seem like a high frequency .

More likely than someone shooting through the door, of course, but unlikely.

The reported burglary rate in Colorado Springs is somewhat higher than the national average.

No, I do not think it likely that someone will shoot through a front door, but once someone has placed himself at the door he is unprotected. That's an avoidable risk.
Click to expand...

My apologies. Our burglary rate went up about the time they legalized weed
 
This the OP of the thread I linked to earlier

I am convinced that I stopped an attempted robbery at the front door of my home several years ago by simply not opening the door.

A stranger showed up at my door around 9 pm saying that he wanted to give me a free Denver Post. This was back when I owned a home and I looked through the front window and he had no newspaper in his hands.

He spent 10 minutes trying to get me to open that door; nothing else was going to do. I finally ended the conversation by telling him I was calling the police. I am aware that there are any number of things I could have done better but it was almost 10 years ago and I’ve learned some since then.

I believe it’s prudent not to open the door to a stranger if for no other reason than I don’t want to hear a pitch for meat or a vacuum cleaner or encyclopedias or magazines or an invitation to your church. By not opening the door for anyone I don’t know I automatically am never faced with a situation where I open the door to a criminal.

If it is a criminal I want every advantage I can have. Why put myself in a position where I have to fight them at the door when I can just not open the door and avoid the fight entirely?
 
old lady new shooter said:
That said, your post asked what we would do if someone shot through our door. It did not mention anything about first answering the door.
Click to expand...
My question was in response to this: "I live in the metro,and trust no one, you bet when I answer my door I have a 380 or .38 spl derringer, in my pocket."

old lady new shooter said:
I can imagine someone coming to the door waving a gun and THREATENING to shoot if not granted entrance.
Click to expand...
That would be a very untenable situation in which to be.

old lady new shooter said:
However, once somebody starts shooting, your job is to shoot back.
Click to expand...
Do you not think it logical that if you had not been there in the first place the person would not have fired through your door??

And what is it that makes you believe that once somewhat had started shooting, you would be able to shoot back?

Best to avoid giving an unidentified visitor the opportunity to threaten you in the first place.
 
Kleanbore said:
My question was in response to this: "I live in the metro,and trust no one, you bet when I answer my door I have a 380 or .38 spl derringer, in my pocket."
Click to expand...

Now I realize that Kleanbore is not the one that said that but it seems like it comes up every time this discussion comes up.

And every time it comes up I asked the same question if things are so sketchy that you feel the need to open the door with a gun in your hand why are you opening the door at all?
 
Kleanbore said:
My question was in response to this: "I live in the metro,and trust no one, you bet when I answer my door I have a 380 or .38 spl derringer, in my pocket."

That would be a very untenable situation in which to be.

Do you not think it logical that if you had not been there in the first place the person would not have fired through your door??

And what is it that makes you believe that once somewhat had started shooting, you would be able to shoot back?

Best to avoid giving an unidentified visitor the opportunity to threaten you in the first place.
Click to expand...
I answered what you posted originally, what would I do if someone shot through my door. My answer stands. You are trying to change the discussion to whether the door should be answered, which is a different question.

Here, BGs have guns but crazies usually have knives. A BG is at least somewhat rational and is not going to shoot through a security door because it doesn't get him anything, but will immediately attract attention from all the neighbors. For this reason, BGs try to talk the homeowner into letting them in, and will actually go away if not successful in the attempt. I have thankfully experienced this personally, more than once. Crazies are another story, but usually don't have guns, I would be more worried that one decides he has magical powers and dives in through a window. (3M film won't work on the windows in this house, they are the original windows from 1942, i.e. wooden crosspieces with individual panes of glass between, entry could unfortunately be accomplished by breaking one or more crosspieces.)

As previously stated, your brain is the first weapon you should be using. But if someone demonstrates intent to kill or rape you, self-defense is the order of the day. No way does someone shooting through your door not demonstrate intent to cause you great bodily harm, you better do your best to harm him first.
 
old lady new shooter said:
I answered what you posted originally, what would I do if someone shot through my door. My answer stands.
Click to expand...
One more time, I "posted originally" a query about what someone who had answered a door "with a .380 or .38 Special derringer in [his] pocket" would do if the visitor were to shoot through the door.

You said that you would would "shoot back". How could you be faced with the need to do so had you not "answered the door"?

old lady new shooter said:
BGs try to talk the homeowner into letting them in, and will actually go away if not successful in the attempt.
Click to expand...
That does happen, but I wouldn't base my entire strategy on that assumption .

old lady new shooter said:
No way does someone shooting through your door not demonstrate intent to cause you great bodily harm....
Click to expand...
Can't argue with that!

old lady new shooter said:
you better do your best to harm him first.
Click to expand...
If someone has shot at you, they may well have harmed you first.

But stop and reflect: your first objective is not to "harm him first". It is to do what is necessary to prevent yourself from being harmed.

I'm not at all sure that if someone had fired though my door for some reason that my first reaction should be to shoot back. If I could more effectively protect myself by rolling immediately out of his cone of possible fire and moving to a safe place, that would surely be more prudent.

old lady new shooter said:
You are trying to change the discussion to whether the door should be answered, which is a different question.
Click to expand...
That is the underlying question, isn't it?

In the old days we always answered the door. Today we either answer or we choose not to, but when we answer the door without having some confidence about about who may be there, we do so without putting ourselves where that person could endanger us--which is the point of the Ayoob video.

We do not go to the door with gun in hand, and we do not labor under the assumption that the gun in our holster would protect us effectively in the gravest extreme.
 
Kleanbore said:
I'm not at all sure that if someone had fired though my door for some reason that my first reaction should be to shoot back. If I could more effectively protect myself by rolling immediately out of his cone of possible fire and moving to a safe place, that would surely be more prudent.
Click to expand...
In most homes there is actually no place you can get to that a bullet cannot penetrate, the exception being sideways behind a bookcase, where you will not fit by rolling.
 
old lady new shooter said:
In most homes there is actually no place you can get to that a bullet cannot penetrate, the exception being sideways behind a bookcase, where you will not fit by rolling.
Click to expand...
Of course!

The idea would be to get out of the sight of the man shooting or threatening with a gun, and to make it impossible for him to target you.
 
I will start by saying I'm in a "safe" area. As safe as one can be which is to say
you are never really safe.

So, I can see all my doors, front porch, patio and driveway from some point inside my house
without gizmos.

If I get a door knock, I look to the driveway first.
If I don't know the vehicle or there is no vehicle, I don't answer the door.
Wait to see who is leaving and if I know them, I open the door and call them back.

My friends know to call me before they stop by so I'll be expecting them.

I am armed 99% of the time. Even inside my home.

I do have a plan for all three exterior doors.

IF you come into my home I WILL assume you mean to do me harm
and in my state, inside the home is a clean shoot.

Make no mistake: I WILL SHOOT AN INTRUDER, WITHOUT HESITATION.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
My apologies. Our burglary rate went up about the time they legalized weed
Click to expand...
Perhaps off topic, but I find it at strange (at least) that weed is being legalized around the country, and guns are being banned.
It seems more often than not, the proponents of legal weed are opponents of RKBA. Hmmmm... And the government seems happy to help.
They probably feel an unarmed and stoned population is probably easier to control I guess.
 
Our new Gov. elect Murphy ran on the platform to legalize mary jane for tax monies also sanctuary state.....he won here in NJ....my advice, don't come here, there's nothin' here for ya.
 
The incident mentioned in the OP is discussed in detail in the December Rangemaster Newsletter, posted in this forum.

Tom Givens' points and observations:
  • No such thing as a safe neighborhood.
  • Not a random break-in--the thugs saw the victims in public and decided to target them.
  • Be alert to the possibility of being followed home.
  • Lock the doors.
  • Ready access to firearms.
  • Do not think that everyone is rational or reasonable.
 
I posted this not to create an argument or for members top start splitting hairs but because I think it's good to review our own mindset.
I live in condition Yellow since my early teens when my Grandmother was a slumlord in a bad neighborhood (I grew up in this neighborhood). One day a young woman came running to our detached house on the property screaming her husband was trying to kill her, my mom and gmom let her in and quickly "locked" the screen door, made out of 1" wood and screen (good for keeping out flies). Then they locked the front door (typical front wood door with regular screws holding the frame).
I knew this wasn't going to work and slipped out the side door and placed a chair under the car port in full view of the front door armed with grandads 1911 (grandad was long gone). The guy approached all hot and cussing and threatening and as he approached I stood up and let him see the butt of the 1911 tucked in my belt (Mexican Carry). He just stopped, maybe 20 ft away and began apologizing for his cussing and rude behavior and whimpered that he just wanted to talk to his wife (with a kitchen knife on him). I'll never forget this 30something calling me "Sir" (I was 16).
Living in that neighborhood had trained me that condition Yellow (long before I knew about these things) was the only way to live life for me. I'm 55 now but I'm 55 and some of my friends left this world much earlier due to living in condition Green.
So I watched this very well done documentary (and the time goes by very quickly) and I think even if you've read the account, watching this video is still worthwhile.
As for me, I have fences and cameras and double doors and security doors and burglar bars and 4 dogs, but even taking a shower I have a gun with me in the bathroom.
The medical Definition of paranoia (that I found online). 1 : a psychosis characterized by systematized delusions of persecution or grandeur usually without hallucinations. 2 : a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others.
I think the key word her is IRRATIONAL. As a former LEO, I have made my own deduction that most victims were not aware or paying attention, that, and their mindset of its never happened to me or this is a safe neighborhood or I'm safe at home or I'm a great driver, etc.

If I had to learn one lesson from this incident it would be to always consider the possible even if not plausible.
 
milemaker13 said:
Perhaps off topic, but I find it at strange (at least) that weed is being legalized around the country, and guns are being banned.
It seems more often than not, the proponents of legal weed are opponents of RKBA. Hmmmm... And the government seems happy to help.
They probably feel an unarmed and stoned population is probably easier to control I guess.
Click to expand...

What guns have been banned recently, and where? Both constitution carry and legal marijuana are proliferating over the last two decades.
 
george29 said:
I have made my own deducton that most victims were not aware or paying attention, that, and their mindset of its never happened to me or this is a safe neighborhood or I'm safe at home or in a great driver, etc.
Click to expand...
Concur.
 
This Just In
Perfect timing for this discussion about 20 minutes ago a guy in eastern Colorado Springs was robbed in his home by two guys wearing UPS uniforms. Apparently they walked up, knocked on the door and as soon as the guy opened it they pulled their guns.

I will try to find a link and update this post
 
Trunk Monkey said:
about 20 minutes ago a guy in eastern Colorado Springs was robbed in his home by two guys wearing UPS uniforms. Apparently they walked up, knocked on the door and as soon as the guy opened it they pulled their guns.
Click to expand...
Dad gum!
 
Trunk Monkey said:
Perfect timing for this discussion about 20 minutes ago a guy in eastern Colorado Springs was robbed in his home by two guys wearing UPS uniforms. Apparently they walked up, knocked on the door and as soon as the guy opened it they pulled their guns.

I will try to find a link and update this post
Click to expand...
I've been able too find two things:
  • A couple of UPS drivers were robbed recently. Their uniforms were taken, and police are concerned that they may be used in crime.
  • Last December, a man in a UPS uniform who had a gun gained entrance intoto a home and left the resident with fractured skull.
The stories illustrate the lengths to which some persons will go to perpetrate crime.

One would think that it would be okay to go to the door to greet a man in a UPS uniform. But if he man is criminal and if he is armed, one could end up in a very bad situation.

We do not go to the door, They knock, leave the package, and depart. If there is something reading a signature, they notify us by email first.

And then there are water company uniforms, salespersons....
 
MedWheeler said:
The Cheshire murders took place in an "exclusive", upscale neighborhood in Connecticut. In a nutshell, two murderous felons gained entry to the apparently-unsecured home of Dr. William Petit and his family one morning in 2007... All members of the family were attacked; only Dr. Petit survived, escaping the home, which was then set ablaze, to a neighbor's to call for help...
Click to expand...

Thank you for that. I have almost no free time these days, so your summary is much appreciated. I also just read about it in Tom Givens' Rangemaster news letter.
 
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