Moving to a Progressive - Which One?

Nature Boy said:

I have dedicated tool heads to minimize change over time on the 650. I can do a complete swap, including small to large primer (or vise versa) in 10 min without acting like I'm trying out for a NASCAR pit crew. It's an option, but more expense added to an already expensive press.

Otherwise it can be a bit involved, but not too bad for the average guy.

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You have a nice setup and have things down to a science. I have no doubt you can do a change over fairly quickly. The trick to caliber changes is to have spare tool heads.

A man may never be happy, if he doesn't make a choice he will never be.
Get the 550 Dillon and if you are not happy sell it for what almost you have in it, They retain there value well!
Some things interchange with the 650 others not. Keep your dies, powder drops etc. and move on to the 650 if you have the need. They have a lifetime warranty.
After about 25 years I contacted Dillon with a feeding problem, they sent me half of the machine I purchased in parts and the tools to set it up after rebuilding it, for nothing.
I have a 550 and it is a wonderful tool.

I noticed there’s no mention of the RCBS Pro Chucker 5 or 7. I remember them having a problem with breaking primer strips, but thought there was a modified replacement strip available.

I have several single stage loaders but no experience with RCBS Pro Chucker 5 or 7. I have read about them and would like to make this simple. They have there issues, I like RCBS stuff for single stage and did most of my breaking in on there JR and Rock Chucker equipment.
Once I started with Dillon well lets just say everything got better. Dillon pistol dies are so advanced over the RCBS stuff I have, I dislike using the RCBS dies in my progressive press to a point If I add a caliber I purchase a new Dillon die set. Dillon stuff is so much more advanced and runs trouble free. Read on it and then read some more.

I have found that the 550 works best with Dillon dies since they are designed for progressive presses. I started out trying to use my Lee dies and very quickly replaced them with Dillon dies. Now, understand that my Lee dies were years old and the newer ones may be more suitable. You can make them work, but things are just smoother with the Dillon units.

I have the Hornady LNL. I like the quick change die feature and the fact that you can upgrade is as you go along. Adding a case feeder or bullet feeder when you are ready. It is also pretty versatile as you can set the dies up any way you want. I deprime brass as a single process prior to cleaning, just pop in the depriming die and run them through. If you have issues in the middle of a run pull that die and clean it or what ever you need to do. Very quick, very easy.

I don't recommend a press for anyone else because no matter which brand you get as soon as you have a problem you are going to be questioning if you should have gotten the other one. Advice: pick one, stick with it, learn how to make it run and enjoy it.

Good luck,

You can't beat the Dillon dies. For 12 years I used my RCBS dies. The only problem I ever encountered was the decapping pins would loosen. I have no idea why but I put up with it for 12 years. Also broke a few when finding a berdan case in the brass. RCBS was very good at sending me free pins. And I was always checking the pins for tightness.

One loading session I had an incident loading new .44 Spl brass where the decapping pin unscrewed from the die and ended up in one of the cases. What do you do when you have 200 loaded rounds and the decapping pin assembly is in one of them? Thought on this for about 15 min and ordered a strong magnet. Found the round in less then 10 seconds when I held the magnet over the loaded rounds.

But from then on I switched to Dillon dies. The bottom of the die is chamfered so the case doesn't hang up and the decapping pin is a floating design that usually doesn't break. Dillon's dies are top of the line and I have started to switch to them.

Allen One1 said:

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I don't recommend a press for anyone else because no matter which brand you get as soon as you have a problem you are going to be questioning if you should have gotten the other one. Advice: pick one, stick with it, learn how to make it run and enjoy it.

Good luck,

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I feel the same way you do. I really comes down to the fact that you get what you pay for. I have the same progressive you have and it isn't perfect but it does what I need and at this point I have it running like a top. I would not suggest to anyone get this or that because they are machines and machines have their moments.

If I wanted to have a “quick change” on a 650, I would need separate tool heads (with dies/powder drop) and shell holders for each caliber - and it would be as simple as swapping them out to reload my different calibers.

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Yes, you will also have to change the station #1 locator and other case feed parts.

You can also save money and swap the measures from one tool head to another. Preset dies for them and preset powder bars also speed things up.



You’ll notice on the 650 one towards the end of the video, I also have the die for the powder check and arbor set for the load.

If cost isn’t a concern I would lean towards the 650 and case feed, it’s faster and has the powder check. I have read lots of squib and kaboom threads but don’t recall any where the Dillon powder check system was in use.

Love my LNL...,

Thewelshm

Going straight to Dillon will save you time and money. The 650 will save you the most in time between your two choices.

The 650 (no first hand experience with the 650) or 1050 is the best for the best ammo

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Don't want into Red vs Blue but I find it very difficult to believe the Ammo off a 650 or 1050 is better than the ammo off a LNL.
Lots of thing go into making good ammo (or not making good ammo) I can load pistol ammo on my old 3 hole "Deluxe" Lee turret with Lee dies that I would be willing to bet will shoot just as well as ammo loaded with the same components on a 1050 with Dillon dies"
I would say the same for ammo loaded on my LNL (Lee and Hornady dies for 9mm/RCBS lockout)

I like having a station for a powder check/lockout die.
Do you need it no, but my lockout die makes me happy

LNL owner so I can't comment on Dillons other than to say they have lots of loyal/happy owners. (sometimes bordering on fanatical owners)


I like this

Buy the press whose color best matches the decor in your reloading room. It will serve you well.

I have red, blue and green progressive presses in my reloading room. They all have their plusses and minuses which is the reason I have examples from the three major manufacturers. I reload some cartridges that work better on one press than another or have a dedicated press for only one cartridge.

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Zendude said:

I noticed there’s no mention of the RCBS Pro Chucker 5 or 7. I remember them having a problem with breaking primer strips, but thought there was a modified replacement strip available.

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I have an RCBS Pro2000 and looked at the Pro Chuckers when they came out. I did not feel they fixed some of the minor issues that I have with my Pro2000, primarily the shell plate snapping into the next position under indexing and sloshing powder out of full, charged case.

Other than playing with the press at their introduction at the NRA convention, I cannot make further comment on the Pro Chuckers. Just like all the other progressive presses, they probably have their advantages and disadvantages.

I've used a Lee Pro 1000 for 45 Long Colt and 41 magnum, both with large primers. I'm using my brother's loadmaster for 38, 357 mag, and 40SW with small primers. Using loadmaster without the bullet feeder I run 10 to 12 rounds per minute. Reloading 100 primers or 100 cases in the case feeder takes 15 to 30 seconds. It has five positions and it's easy to swap preset turrets to change calibers. While I can't imagine spending the money for a 650 that had such easy quiet case and bullet feeder options as well as primers replenishment I'd still like to try want to see what the excitement is all about. A friend of mine has a 550 and he was shocked to see that my Pro 1000 had a case and bullet feeder and simple, inexpensive, quiet ones at that.
It seems like a lot of people say they love their Dillon. If price isn't that an issue I guess you could go that direction. You'll certainly always be able to sell one for most of what you paid for it. The same goes for the Lee presses. I suggested to my brother he buy the Lee Loadmaster and if he came to hate it he could always sell that and wouldn't have had to a bunch of money out in the first place. While I'm very experienced with the Pro 1000s I wouldn't buy one again since the Loadmaster is so close in price and has the extra die positions to work with. Caliber changes are streamlined and inexpensive.

Hornady LnL was tried and shelved

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Curious, reasons for shelving the LNL?

(LNL Progressive?)

I have a load master. I won’t tell you it runs like a Dillon 650, but it does run.
It was a bear to get tuned in, so I don’t think you’d want to be changing it.
The case feeder is the weak link on mine. Sometimes it doesn’t get the case all the way into the shell plate and you smash it. It probably just needs some more tuning. I haven’t had time to do anything but pull the handle. I don’t have a bullet feeder.

It takes me less than 2 min to do a caliber change including primer size on the LNL. If you have the brass feeder it adds another 3-5 min depending on what parts need to be changed.

All presses are a compromise. Each has it's good and bad. None of them will run right if it's not setup right. The LNL is a lot simpler design than the Dillons. Now a word of caution. Dillon uses a lot of plastic parts that wear. As with any AP you do not want to force things, Bad things can happen. In Dillon's case it setting off the column of primers. All due to a cheap piece of plastic that wears. So you have to be aware of this so it does not happen if you go that route. Dillon does have a better brass feeder for the 650 vs LNL. The press was design around it, so it should be purchased with the machine. The LNL is design to be used with to without. With the Dillon your feeding stations from both sides of the press. With the LNL-AP you feed every thing from the left and the right hand only operates the ram. The primer system on the LNL-AP is one of the best I've used. But it must be setup properly, if not you have problems. I've setup several for friends, once set they have not had to adj it since, 10+ yrs.

Bottom line both are good machines that have there own set of problems. None are perfect. Just need to learn how to keep them running smooth .

I fought with a loadmaster for years. I love lee stuff, except the loadmaster. And I love most of the loadmaster, but the priming system is it's weak link.

I bought a dillon 650, and it really is a nice press. However, changing calibers, especially changing primer sizes is not easy and takes a while. It honestly might be worth it to look into using small primer 45's. Also, dillon is silly expensive. everything about it is expensive. I defrayed my costs a little by immediatly selling the dillon rube golberg designed powder dispenser and put a lee auto drum on each turret. (got 3 auto drums for the cost of the dillon) and rigged up a bracket to hold the lee loadmster case feed on the press instead of using the dillon case feed. saved ~$300 and it works great.

I don't have any imput on the hornady other than to say that in my research, most people had no problems with either hornady or dillon, but of those that did, more seemed to have them with hornady.

I don't really consider the 550 to be a true progressive. without auto index and a case feed I feel it is more equivalent to a lee turret press than a progressive. but that's probably just me.

Couple more thoughts based on subsequent posts:

I am using my old Lee dies (long installed in my LCT that cranked out tens of thousands of rounds) in my new-to-me Dillon 650. The biggest challenge is that the dies are short compared to Dillon's very tall toolhead, and Dillon's tall dies. I was unable to get all the Lee dies down far enough with the Lee lock rings installed... I just ran out of threads at the top of the sizing/decapping die and, IIRC, the seating die (or maybe it was the FCD). One workaround is to install the Lee lock rings up from the bottom of the toolhead. The other solution, which I ended up adopting, was just to get some Dillon lock rings. Dillon lock rings are very thin, and the amount of threading they take up on the die is small enough to the get the dies into position.

Biggest problem with this approach is that the Dillon lock rings lack an o-ring (like the Lees) or the Hornady set-screw or any other mechanism. They only lock by being tightened between the press and die very firmly. I was used to being able to just install and remove dies with the lock rings never moving (thanks to the o-ring or set-screw) and without any use of tools at all. But once the die is removed from the toolhead, a Dillon locking ring spins very freely and will not hold its setting. I never bothered with loading up a bunch of different turret rings for my LCT because installation of dies was so easy, but if I were trying to load multiple calibers on the 650, I would definitely want separate toolheads... otherwise, you'll have to adjust the dies every time.

• Short version: You can make Lee dies work in a Dillon, but you will need a lock-ring solution. Order some Dillon lock rings (which, unlike most Smurf-flavored things, are not super expensive).

Next issue: Caliber changeovers. I currently only load my USPSA gamer load on my Dillon. That round counts for 90+% of my shooting volume, so leaving the Dillon set up for that full time is sensible. I continue to do everything else (roughly 10 other calibers) on my LCT. Since everything else is consumed in much smaller volumes, doing a run of 50 to 200 rounds is not worth changing over the Dillon (much less the expense of the caliber conversion parts - which are NOT the dies).

But for higher volume reloading, the difference in speed is amazing. It is so fast and effortless to crank out rounds on the Dillon compared to the LCT (which I was pretty adept at running quickly). They are not comparable. I can build an inventory of rounds in just a couple of hours that would previously have taken me all weekend. Or, more directly, I can crank out replacements for whatever shooting I'm doing so painlessly that there is no longer any reloading-time barrier to my shooting. I shoot however much I want/can afford/can get to... no longer does the hassle/time of making ammo have any role in the calculus. Burning through 500 rounds of ammo in a practice session used to be a very bittersweet feeling, because I could see all the time at the LCT just going up in smoke. The 650 eliminates that feeling.

• Short version: If you get a 650, you won't ditch your LCT. But you will want to ditch it for high-volume stuff.

Oh, one other LCT-to-Dillon point: The Lee AutoDrum works just fine on the Dillon. The used Dillon I bought came with their powder measure, but the actuator rod (Dillon calls it a "fail safe" rod; it's certainly a very positive interface, but it's the means of activating the drop, not merely a safety backup) bracket on the press was bent (during shipping or storage or something... not related to operational use). I called Dillon. Despite me telling them that I bought the press used (3rd hand, at least), and that the bracket was probably bent in transit between users, they just shipped me a new bracket for free. I installed it, but by then had been using the Autodrum with results just as reliable and accurate as when it was on the LCT (with VV N320 powder). I haven't bothered switching over to the Dillon powder measure.

• Short version: If you have a Lee AutoDrum and you like it, it will work without any problem on the Dillon.