Long range shooting pointers

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vincyr

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Once my hand heals(long story), I kinda want to start shooting handguns at longer ranges. I'm alright out to 50 yards or so, but I've been reading some older stuff, and came across some accounts of handgun hunting at 200-300 yards. Now, this seems nuts to somebody that was told a handgun was a 25-50 yard proposition at most when he was learning to shoot. Do you guys know any resources that I could utilize for learning to shoot that far?
 
There's IHMSA, as Jim mentioned. There is also the NRA's Hunter Pistol competition. Aside from experimenting on your own, which is what I play at, those are the only programs I've heard of.

Jeff
 
If you have a place in Upstate NY that is 150 to 200 yards you can learn to "walk" your shots into the target. You just need a spotter to let you know if the bullet hit high or low and then elevate or de-elevate accordingly. It's surprisingly easy once you get the hang of it.
 
Do you guys know any resources that I could utilize for learning to shoot that far?

Don't convince yourself long range handgunning is anything that it is not. When it comes to wheelgunning, shooting far really isn't so different than shooting short. If you can't shoot small at short ranges, you won't be able to shoot small at long ranges, and there are no tricks.

Focus on Fundamentals: The only difference in technique shooting long instead of short is wind and range correction management. If you can shoot small at short range, the same fundamentals apply to shoot small at long range.

Be realistic. Shooting 1" groups at 100yrds with a bolt action rifle is simple. Shooting 1" groups at 100yrds with a revolver isn't common. Most Ruger, Taurus, and S&W revolvers I have owned in the last ~15yrs have all been capable of somewhere between 2.5-4MOA raw precision. Be happy shooting 4" groups at 100yrds. Be exceptionally happy shooting anything smaller than that.

Make your job easy: Long and heavy triggers are detrimental to precision, and in a lightweight handgun, that's even more important. A 2lb trigger under a 4lb scoped revolver means the shooter has to work FAR harder to avoid influencing the revolver than he would with a 4lb trigger under a 13lb varmint rifle. Proper trigger technique will limit your potential to influence the firearm, but having perfect trigger control on every shot is a dream. Short, crisp, light triggers are an advantage. Trigger stops (overtravel), minimal sear engagement (creep), lighter trigger pull, and of course, only shooting in SA mode are ways to reduce your trigger influence on the shot.

Get supported. There are guys out there who can shoot exceptionally small off-hand fired groups, but it's not so common, and it's far more difficult than it needs to be. Unless you're competing, there's not much sense in working off-hand. There are a few good pistol rests out there, some better than others. A bag under your wrists is ok, but it's not nearly as good as a V-block under your barrel and a sandbag under your grip. I prefer the MTM pistol rest or the (discontinued) BogPod PSR.

Shoot big enough targets. This is really the book end to the "be realistic" above. Think about the relative scale of your targets. When guys shoot a pie plate at 25yrds with a revolver, let's just say a 10" plate, that's a 100" plate at 250yrds. It's a fools errand to stick that same pie plate out there at 250 and expect to connect. If your 25yrd groups are 1" on a 4" circle, then you'd need a 40" target at 250yrds, and should expect no better than a 10" group, and most likely, considerably larger. Unless you can reliably hit 1" target spots at 25yrds, you can't expect to reliably hit 10" targets at 250yrds.

Get a good look: Lots of guys swear against scopes on revolvers, but it's a simple fact - you can't hit what you can't see. Consider: a Ruger front sight blade is 1/8" wide, and considering most 2 handed shooters will have the front sight about 25" from their eye, that means your front sight blade is over 16MOA wide. So let's pretend you can hold that front sight blade within the middle 25% on target - that's over 4" of horizontal dispersion on target. If you consider the "light" on either side of the blade to be ~1/64", just bouncing the front sight front one side of the gap to the other will mean another +/-2" of horizontal. You're talking 6"+ wide groups before you even add in ANY group size. Equally, a red dot on top will typically have a 2MOA to 4MOA dot, a lot better than 16MOA, but still pretty rough. A magnified optic will have 1/4MOA crosshairs. Guys get thrown off by their "wobble" or "shakiness" in scopes, but realize - you're ALWAYS shaking that much, you just can't see it. Two things need to happen - 1) learn to minimize the wobble and shake, and 2) learn to live with your minimal wobble & shake.

Use your tools: Similar to getting a good look - if you don't have the right tools, your job becomes a lot harder. There's enough drop under revolver bullets at 250-300yrds that a ballistic calculator can be your friend. Very, very few handgun scopes are available with graduated reticles, so you really need the ability to dial. Many of us even use rifle scopes on handguns to give sufficient magnification, graduated reticles, and dialable turrets.

Shoot on a proper range - and with a spotter: Shooting on a grass field is common, but it's rarely productive for walking shots onto target. Having a good dirt berm behind the target is handy, but only if your impacts are on the berm. If you take too long of leap from your last target range to the next, you might not be on the berm, and splash hiding under grass doesn't tell you anything. Scoped revolvers often recoil enough to lose the target in your scope, so having a spotter on hand to call impacts is of high value.

Recognize your handicap: A revolver or pistol will never shoot as small as a specialty pistol. Bolt action and break action handguns can be bought in conventional bottleneck rifle cartridges, and can deliver remarkable precision. The TC Encore & Contender are the common specialty pistols on the market today, where the Nosler NCH is a custom option. There are a few custom XP100 gunsmiths out there, and of course, any bare bolt action action can be built as a specialty pistol. Savage Strikers are out there to be bought used at fair prices too. These certainly have a different appeal than revolvers, but they also have different capabilities. I love shooting long with revolvers, but "long" is relative. Shooting 300yrds with a revolver is exceptionally long, whereas 300yrds is nothing but a warm up for a specialty pistol in a cartridge like 243win, 7-08, or 6.5 creed. Not everyone wants a specialty pistol, but if you want to say you are long range shooting with a handgun, you can get to 1,000yrds with a specialty pistol without much work, whereas 300yrds with a revolver takes some doing. Another "easy entry" into long range revolver shooting is the X-Frame in 460. It's a ton of recoil, which is terrible for new shooters and detrimental for precision, even for an experienced shooter, but the cartridge is fast and flat shooting, and the long barreled X frames are readily scoped and made to be fired from the bench.

Personally: my favorite long range revolver is a 7.5" Ruger Redhawk in 357/44 B&D Magnum. It's a 44mag case necked down to 357. I shoot drawn 180grn rifle bullets at 1900fps, without the pressure indicators I see with conventional 158grn revolver bullets at even lower speeds. I drilled & tapped the topstrap to accept a wiegand picatinny rail, and go back and forth between a Leupold VX3 2-8x handgun scope and a VX3i 4.5-14x rifle scope. I did an action job to improve my trigger feel and reduce trigger weight, and have custom grips (new version coming soon!) to make it more bench friendly. I'd spent a couple decades and thousands upon thousands of dollars working through various cartridges to get here - a round with low enough recoil, high enough velocity, sufficient ballistic coefficient, and sufficient power down range to accomplish my desire.

Chris Rhodes at Bayside Custom Gunworks also builds a "FrankenRuger," which is a rebarreled GP100 with a free floating lug and custom barrel to be fired from the bench. Relatively speaking, it's pretty affordable, and with hot 357mag loads, Ernie Bishop (@xphunter) has been doing some impressive long range shooting, in excess of 500yrds even. Something to consider if you're looking to get serious about long range revolver shooting.

Like I said - don't convince yourself "long" range revolver shooting is anything it isn't. Other than wind and elevation correction, it's no different than shooting short - and the wind isn't so challenging at only 300yrds.
 
Don't convince yourself long range handgunning is anything that it is not. When it comes to wheelgunning, shooting far really isn't so different than shooting short. If you can't shoot small at short ranges, you won't be able to shoot small at long ranges, and there are no tricks.

Focus on Fundamentals: The only difference in technique shooting long instead of short is wind and range correction management. If you can shoot small at short range, the same fundamentals apply to shoot small at long range.

Be realistic. Shooting 1" groups at 100yrds with a bolt action rifle is simple. Shooting 1" groups at 100yrds with a revolver isn't common. Most Ruger, Taurus, and S&W revolvers I have owned in the last ~15yrs have all been capable of somewhere between 2.5-4MOA raw precision. Be happy shooting 4" groups at 100yrds. Be exceptionally happy shooting anything smaller than that.

Make your job easy: Long and heavy triggers are detrimental to precision, and in a lightweight handgun, that's even more important. A 2lb trigger under a 4lb scoped revolver means the shooter has to work FAR harder to avoid influencing the revolver than he would with a 4lb trigger under a 13lb varmint rifle. Proper trigger technique will limit your potential to influence the firearm, but having perfect trigger control on every shot is a dream. Short, crisp, light triggers are an advantage. Trigger stops (overtravel), minimal sear engagement (creep), lighter trigger pull, and of course, only shooting in SA mode are ways to reduce your trigger influence on the shot.

Get supported. There are guys out there who can shoot exceptionally small off-hand fired groups, but it's not so common, and it's far more difficult than it needs to be. Unless you're competing, there's not much sense in working off-hand. There are a few good pistol rests out there, some better than others. A bag under your wrists is ok, but it's not nearly as good as a V-block under your barrel and a sandbag under your grip. I prefer the MTM pistol rest or the (discontinued) BogPod PSR.

Shoot big enough targets. This is really the book end to the "be realistic" above. Think about the relative scale of your targets. When guys shoot a pie plate at 25yrds with a revolver, let's just say a 10" plate, that's a 100" plate at 250yrds. It's a fools errand to stick that same pie plate out there at 250 and expect to connect. If your 25yrd groups are 1" on a 4" circle, then you'd need a 40" target at 250yrds, and should expect no better than a 10" group, and most likely, considerably larger. Unless you can reliably hit 1" target spots at 25yrds, you can't expect to reliably hit 10" targets at 250yrds.

Get a good look: Lots of guys swear against scopes on revolvers, but it's a simple fact - you can't hit what you can't see. Consider: a Ruger front sight blade is 1/8" wide, and considering most 2 handed shooters will have the front sight about 25" from their eye, that means your front sight blade is over 16MOA wide. So let's pretend you can hold that front sight blade within the middle 25% on target - that's over 4" of horizontal dispersion on target. If you consider the "light" on either side of the blade to be ~1/64", just bouncing the front sight front one side of the gap to the other will mean another +/-2" of horizontal. You're talking 6"+ wide groups before you even add in ANY group size. Equally, a red dot on top will typically have a 2MOA to 4MOA dot, a lot better than 16MOA, but still pretty rough. A magnified optic will have 1/4MOA crosshairs. Guys get thrown off by their "wobble" or "shakiness" in scopes, but realize - you're ALWAYS shaking that much, you just can't see it. Two things need to happen - 1) learn to minimize the wobble and shake, and 2) learn to live with your minimal wobble & shake.

Use your tools: Similar to getting a good look - if you don't have the right tools, your job becomes a lot harder. There's enough drop under revolver bullets at 250-300yrds that a ballistic calculator can be your friend. Very, very few handgun scopes are available with graduated reticles, so you really need the ability to dial. Many of us even use rifle scopes on handguns to give sufficient magnification, graduated reticles, and dialable turrets.

Shoot on a proper range - and with a spotter: Shooting on a grass field is common, but it's rarely productive for walking shots onto target. Having a good dirt berm behind the target is handy, but only if your impacts are on the berm. If you take too long of leap from your last target range to the next, you might not be on the berm, and splash hiding under grass doesn't tell you anything. Scoped revolvers often recoil enough to lose the target in your scope, so having a spotter on hand to call impacts is of high value.

Recognize your handicap: A revolver or pistol will never shoot as small as a specialty pistol. Bolt action and break action handguns can be bought in conventional bottleneck rifle cartridges, and can deliver remarkable precision. The TC Encore & Contender are the common specialty pistols on the market today, where the Nosler NCH is a custom option. There are a few custom XP100 gunsmiths out there, and of course, any bare bolt action action can be built as a specialty pistol. Savage Strikers are out there to be bought used at fair prices too. These certainly have a different appeal than revolvers, but they also have different capabilities. I love shooting long with revolvers, but "long" is relative. Shooting 300yrds with a revolver is exceptionally long, whereas 300yrds is nothing but a warm up for a specialty pistol in a cartridge like 243win, 7-08, or 6.5 creed. Not everyone wants a specialty pistol, but if you want to say you are long range shooting with a handgun, you can get to 1,000yrds with a specialty pistol without much work, whereas 300yrds with a revolver takes some doing. Another "easy entry" into long range revolver shooting is the X-Frame in 460. It's a ton of recoil, which is terrible for new shooters and detrimental for precision, even for an experienced shooter, but the cartridge is fast and flat shooting, and the long barreled X frames are readily scoped and made to be fired from the bench.

Personally: my favorite long range revolver is a 7.5" Ruger Redhawk in 357/44 B&D Magnum. It's a 44mag case necked down to 357. I shoot drawn 180grn rifle bullets at 1900fps, without the pressure indicators I see with conventional 158grn revolver bullets at even lower speeds. I drilled & tapped the topstrap to accept a wiegand picatinny rail, and go back and forth between a Leupold VX3 2-8x handgun scope and a VX3i 4.5-14x rifle scope. I did an action job to improve my trigger feel and reduce trigger weight, and have custom grips (new version coming soon!) to make it more bench friendly. I'd spent a couple decades and thousands upon thousands of dollars working through various cartridges to get here - a round with low enough recoil, high enough velocity, sufficient ballistic coefficient, and sufficient power down range to accomplish my desire.

Chris Rhodes at Bayside Custom Gunworks also builds a "FrankenRuger," which is a rebarreled GP100 with a free floating lug and custom barrel to be fired from the bench. Relatively speaking, it's pretty affordable, and with hot 357mag loads, Ernie Bishop (@xphunter) has been doing some impressive long range shooting, in excess of 500yrds even. Something to consider if you're looking to get serious about long range revolver shooting.

Like I said - don't convince yourself "long" range revolver shooting is anything it isn't. Other than wind and elevation correction, it's no different than shooting short - and the wind isn't so challenging at only 300yrds.

This is an excellent, informative post! Thanks.
 
Post script:

I forgot above in the “tools” section: Most handgun scopes won’t have much internal adjustment, relative to a long range rifle scope which would have to manage the same amount of drop. Also, most revolver scope mounts won’t be offered with any angular offset. So a great option are Burris Signature Zee rings with pos-align inserts, which can give you access to the full elevation adjustment range of your optic.

I also highly recommend getting a 22LR analogy to use as a practice platform. I absolutely love shooting Ruger Mark II/III/IV pistols at long range, and the Ruger Charger pistol is exceptionally satisfying at 300yrds.
 
The Ruger website has several videos relating to handgun hunting. Some of the tips seem quite useful (such as always wearing the same hand coverings).
 
Have taken Antelope and Mulies at 200 yards with a scoped .44 mag. Biggest obstacle is that pistol rounds-vs-rifle have such a rainbow arc trajectory. Found it helpful to focus and practice on a specific distance, then go find an animal at that distance and take the shot. Used life sized animal targets to know what the sight picture would look like....in essence using that sight picture as a mental range finder.

For those who use open sights, long distance shooters will file multiple horizontal grooves into the front sight and fill with gold wire. You might have three horizontal lines, each representing a different yardage distance.
 
@vincyr - what revolvers are you currently shooting (or which were you shooting prior to your injury)? Do you have access to a more experienced handgunner who has done more benched handgunning?
 
Be realistic. Shooting 1" groups at 100yrds with a bolt action rifle is simple. Shooting 1" groups at 100yrds with a revolver isn't common. Most Ruger, Taurus, and S&W revolvers I have owned in the last ~15yrs have all been capable of somewhere between 2.5-4MOA raw precision. Be happy shooting 4" groups at 100yrds. Be exceptionally happy shooting anything smaller than that.

This is a great point. I grew up more around rifles and hunting. I got my first revolver around 15 but that was the only handgun I had for years. When I started getting more into handguns and concealed carry, I thought I flat out sucked because I was used to being able to hit really accurately out at really long ranges with my rifles without much trouble at all. Once I spent more time shooting handguns and seeing how others were with with them I figured out I wasn't quite as bad as I thought, and obviously the skillset is different and that took some time too. I don't spend much time shooting them at 50 or 100 yards but I'm not trying to be a handgun hunter either. Anyway, I just thought this was a really great point and reminder to meter expectations a bit depending on the platform being used.
 
@vincyr - what revolvers are you currently shooting (or which were you shooting prior to your injury)? Do you have access to a more experienced handgunner who has done more benched handgunning?

Just a Single Six. I've got a Single Seven now, and plan on using that. And I don't think I know anyone that doesn't think 50 yds is a ridiculously long pistol shot.
 
"aim small, hit small" applies to long range revolver (or pistol) shooting. I use the middle of the front sight to line up on the center of my target (not the whole target). follow-through is a biggie with your single six. big slow hammer takes forever to fire the primer.

luck,

murf

p.s. and what varminterror said
 
and if you want to shoot that gun long range, I suggest you recrown the barrel (perpendicular to the bore). my bearcat was way off and shoots much better post-crown.

and make sure all the screws are, and stay, tight.

luck,

murf
 
Just a Single Six. I've got a Single Seven now, and plan on using that. And I don't think I know anyone that doesn't think 50 yds is a ridiculously long pistol shot.

That Single Six, firing at 50-100yrds will be an exceptional practice platform. The fast flying 327 will be a fun one to reach out with also. Follow my advice above - get supported, get a good look, and give yourself realistic targets at these ranges, and you can learn a lot, very quickly with those two.
 
Lots of good information already posted.

I shot IHMSA Silhouette in the early 1980s. It really was not difficult to dial in the gun's sights for the various ranges, 50, 100, 150, and 200 meters. But it did show that the sights do need to be calibrated for the various ranges. A hangun's trajectory is alot more rainbow like than a rifle so range knowledge and sight adjustment is a must.

For a while, I shot in the revolver standing class with a 357 Magnum. While I was close to the limits of the gun's sight adjustment, I could still aim at the 200 meter rams.

Before one match, my 357 Magnum revolver broke and I had to press a 45 Colt revolver into service. For the 200 meter rams, I ran out of sight adjustment and I had to hold a barrel depth above the berm to get the slow moving 45 Colt bullets to land on the target.

As mentioned, target size aides to ease of hits. In IHMSA Silhouettes, the 100 meter pigs and the 200 meter rams are fairly easy to hit, but the small 150 meter turkeys are quite difficult. Note, the various targets in IHMSA silhouette shooting are "life size" targets.
 
Tons of good advice and information in this thread. The only think I'd toss in is not specific to long-range shooting, but just related to handgun shooting for accuracy in general. To the extent that you cannot (or choose not to) get fully supported/rested so that the gun is immobile, you will have to "shoot the wobble."

For anything you're holding in your hands at arms length, there is no such thing as holding the gun completely still. Even after you've gotten "on target," the gun will move around. You can work on learning to hold the gun a little bit more still with dryfire, but however much the gun is moving around while you're trying to shoot is however much it's going to move around that day. This movement is called "wobble." Many people experience that they have a wobble that begins at one level as the initial aim is undertaken, then settles to a smaller wobble, then gradually grows as they try to hold the gun as still as possible for a protracted period.

The truth is that the vast majority of the dispersion of shots does not come from this wobble. It comes from disturbing the alignment of the sights between the decision to fire and the actual release of the shot. Getting fixated on the wobble is a good way to induce a snatching of the trigger or otherwise shove the gun around in the miliseconds between deciding to fire the shot and actually firing the shot.

So, the long-standing advice is to "shoot the wobble." Accept that the gun will never be completely still. Let the wobble settle into the smallest wobble you're going to get, and then, while watching the sights, press the trigger through the wobble. If all that is happening is the wobble, your shot will be reasonably accurate, and as accurate as you are physically capable of delivering anyway.

There are some other schools of thought, but there are a number of people who subscribe to what I've laid out above or some variation of it.
 
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Just a Single Six. I've got a Single Seven now, and plan on using that. And I don't think I know anyone that doesn't think 50 yds is a ridiculously long pistol shot.

Are they .22lr only models or convertibles? Ive heard the convertibles are not accurate with .22lr due to the bore size being larger for the .22 mag. I have a single 6 I take out to 300 yards on bbq sized propane tanks, thats 22lr only and its very accurate.
 
Are they .22lr only models or convertibles? Ive heard the convertibles are not accurate with .22lr due to the bore size being larger for the .22 mag. I have a single 6 I take out to 300 yards on bbq sized propane tanks, thats 22lr only and its very accurate.

The Single Six is an old model, from before they started making convertibles, so LR only. The Single Seven is 327 Fed Mag.
 
Ruger revolvers do not use different bore diameter for 22LR and 22Mag. Same .224” bore for all of their 22 cal rimfire Single Sixes.

Thats what I figured, that would explain why ive heard new single sixes shoot bad at best. Needs that .218 (iirc) for a .22lr to shoot well.
 
Ruger revolvers do not use different bore diameter for 22LR and 22Mag. Same .224” bore for all of their 22 cal rimfire Single Sixes.

Thats what I figured, that would explain why ive heard new single sixes shoot bad at best. Needs that .218 (iirc) for a .22lr to shoot well.

They made them with smaller bores on the 22LRs back in the day(pre-convertible era). Mine is from that time. Very accurate, but the sights are fixed. Takes a bit of Kentucky windage to hit what you're aiming at.
 
Don't convince yourself long range handgunning is anything that it is not. When it comes to wheelgunning, shooting far really isn't so different than shooting short. If you can't shoot small at short ranges, you won't be able to shoot small at long ranges, and there are no tricks.
Focus on Fundamentals: The only difference in technique shooting long instead of short is wind and range correction management. If you can shoot small at short range, the same fundamentals apply to shoot small at long range.
Be realistic. Shooting 1" groups at 100yrds with a bolt action rifle is simple. Shooting 1" groups at 100yrds with a revolver isn't common. Most Ruger, Taurus, and S&W revolvers I have owned in the last ~15yrs have all been capable of somewhere between 2.5-4MOA raw precision. Be happy shooting 4" groups at 100yrds. Be exceptionally happy shooting anything smaller than that.

Excellent post! Good points all around.
When living in Ft Myers back in the 70's the pistol range and trap and skeet fields were always busy but most times there could have been tumbleweeds rolling around on the rifle range. I kept moving my target out farther and seeing if I could hit it as well at the new distance as I did at the last. Finally just went and got a 4" chunk of 1/4" diamondplate steel and hung it from a birdfeeder hook. Was a high five yourself moment when you made a DING! at 100 years with open iron stock sights. (BTW, this is shooting off a sandbag rest, not offhand)
One time my Dad and I were there and I'd grabbed the wrong box of ammo. Instead of .357 mag ammo, I'd grabbed .38 mid range wadcutters. It was kinda like lobbing them in like howitzer shells without a forward observer. We didn't make anywhere near as many happy dings as usual, but it was quite a hoot. Perhaps the laughing was throwing off my aim.
 
I use optics on my revolvers and specialty pistols.
I am pretty comfortable shooting past 100 yards with my field rests and keeping them in the kill zone of a big game animals.
 
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