Loading 38 Super: Discussion

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brutus51 said:
Is N105 a spherical powder? how well does it meter?
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Small stick, meters well, but not as well as N-310, 320, 3N37..... meters well enough for this application with no issues.

Universal Clays has been finicky/spiky when it gets to top end pressures in .40 for me, so I would not recommend it for .38 Super, there are better suited proven powders IMHO.

I have no idea about 110 here.
 
Sorry if I drifted off topic. I was curious about other uses for the powder if I did pursue getting a can.
 
brutus51 said:
Sorry if I drifted off topic. I was curious about other uses for the powder if I did pursue getting a can.
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Brownell’s has it on sale for $27.99 if you’re looking. Depending on my results today I may order a few more pounds.

N105 meters really well out of my Dillon powder drop. Really consistent.
 
$28 is quite pricy compared to other powders I use. Most fall into the $23 range.
I never buy powder on line because I don't want to pay the Hazmat fee.
 
brutus51 said:
$28 is quite pricy compared to other powders I use. Most fall into the $23 range.
I never buy powder on line because I don't want to pay the Hazmat fee.
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The regular price is $35.99 so yes, VV powders seem to run higher in price. But I imagine shipping fees from Europe contribute.

This is also the first time I’ve ever bought powder online. Even with hazmat it was cheaper there than anywhere else, and I can’t find this powder locally. I actually have to take time off of work to sign for it because I can’t have it shipped to my office.

I really just wanted to try this powder out given the velocity numbers I saw.
 
I generally use Universal Clays in my revolvers. Used to be my goto shotgun powder but when I ran out of Unique during the Obama scare and couldn't find any I dipped into my Universal stash, liked it so much I haven't bought a can of Unique since.
Don't own a 40 short & weak :neener: and I haven't tried it in 10mm but it works pretty well in .45acp.
Still my favorite shotgun powder though that and Red Dot.
 
Well let's see there's 7000 grains to a pound so $35.99/7000= .0051
I believe a load under consideration was 10.4 grains so .0051*10.4 = .053 cents per round or $5.34 per hundred.
Conversely $23/7000 = .0033*10.4 grains = .0342 cents per round or $3.42 per hundred.
Saving a frugal Bohunk like me $1.92 per hundred.:what:
 
ATLDave said:
If you ever do the math on how many rounds are in a single pound of pistol powder, you may we’ll conclude that $5-8 of difference is non-material.
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My problem is not only is Hodgdon Longshot $5-8 cheaper I also use about 30% less of it. And while it sounds like VV is working good I'm loving Longshot in 38 super and 10mm.
 
I have to ask what velocities you are achieving with a 30% powder reduction using Longshot.
If I have calculated correctly your load is around 7.2 grains compared to the 10.4 for N105.
Longshot is about the same burn rate as AA#7 or 2400. Sounds like a good powder for us frugal kind of guys.:cool:
 
I dont remember velocity with 130gr. I use a 150gr powder coated swc from bayou bullets.

I'm getting right at 1100 from my 4.25" commander and 1160 from 5" Kimber and they're very accurate.
 
That explains it. Op is looking for velocities in the 1400fps. range which is hotter than I would want to go.
I'm guessing my AA#7 loads are yielding approx. 1250 to 1300, won't know until I can chrony them.
Think I'm getting the same results as you with Tightgroup which is a faster burning powder but even more frugal.
 
Tightgroup and hot .38 Super is a no go. IMHO of course. Longshot will work for you. So would Silhouette. Both more frugally oriented powders.
 
Ok so back from shooting, and I had pretty mixed results.

First I’ll say my DW is a nice shooting gun and handles the recoil of the 38 Super in stride. In fact I was surprised at how low the recoil impulse was, but then I thought about it. That’s only one part of why competitors use it.

So the bottom line is I really like the gun, and the cartridge.

My loads were a different matter. Accuracy wasn’t spectacular at 25 yards, but Walkalong pointed out to me that I’m still using too much crimp. So now that I feel I have a better understanding off how aggressively you need to seat over compressed powder, I’m going to back “flare removal” ;):thumbup: off a bit. I also caught myself flinching and do not have a rest, so I’m not going to sweat the accuracy just yet.

Extraction and ejection is a big issue. I had a few fail to feeds in 50 rounds, and ejection was really erratic. 6 cases actually had their case mouths mangled to the point of being unreloadable. I believe this is a clear indication I need to tweak my extractor as it isn’t reliable with the rimless brass. So I’m going to tighten it up a bit before shooting next.

Velocities are as follows. Temp was 80 degrees. Humidity is estimated at 45-55%. Elevation was 6600 ft.

9.9 gr of N105 under 124 gr RMR TC
Ave.1378 from a 15 shot series.
High 1408
Low 1347
ES 61
SD 16.2

10.0 gr of N105 under 124 gr RMR TC
Ave.1371 from a 11 shot series.
High 1385
Low 1358
ES 27
SD 8.1

10.1 gr of N105 under 124 gr RMR TC
Ave.1371from a 15 shot series.
High 1392
Low 1347
ES 44
SD 10

There wasn’t much velocity difference but I had a few erroneous readings I deleted and a few that didn’t pick up at all. I think that first load was a fluke due to me fiddling around too much. All velocities are at the muzzle.

I figure I’ll lighten my taper, tighten my extractor, and load up another ladder from 10.1, 10.2, up to 10.3. I want to break 1400 legitimately and have decent accuracy.

Hopefully I can get back out next weekend.
 
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brutus51 said:
I have to ask what velocities you are achieving with a 30% powder reduction using Longshot.
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mavracer said:
I dont remember velocity with 130gr. I use a 150gr powder coated swc from bayou bullets.

I'm getting right at 1100 from my 4.25" commander and 1160 from 5" Kimber and they're very accurate.
Click to expand...

brutus51 said:
That explains it. Op is looking for velocities in the 1400fps. range which is hotter than I would want to go.
I'm guessing my AA#7 loads are yielding approx. 1250 to 1300, won't know until I can chrony them.
Click to expand...

Sierra's new load manual #6 shows Longshot and N105 both produce the highest velocity listed, with Longshot using ~ 2 grains less powder.
 
460Shooter said:
My loads were a different matter. Accuracy wasn’t spectacular at 25 yards, but Walkalong pointed out to me that I’m still using too much crimp. So now that I feel I have a better understanding off how aggressively you need to seat over compressed powder, I’m going to back “flare removal” ;):thumbup: off a bit. I also caught myself flinching and do not have a rest, so I’m not going to sweat the accuracy just yet.

I figure I’ll lighten my taper, tighten my extractor, and load up another ladder from 10.1, 10.2, up to 10.3. I want to break 1400 legitimately and have decent accuracy.
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Just keep in mind that different guns have different preferences for accuracy. N105 is super-accurate in my Kart barrel. But, different barrels = different results.

My 38 Super Kart barrel also likes Zero, Hornady and Sierra JHP bullets. Oddly, my 9mm Kart barrel is not very fond of Sierra bullets.
 
brutus51 said:
I visited their website, they have a pretty nice load data section. Just curious as to where they got the 5-1/2" barrel.
Since they are European I could understand a 100mm (3.937) a common barrel length but 140mm.:scrutiny:
Is N105 a spherical powder? how well does it meter?
Currently using Universal Clays for my upper end target loads in .357,.44 and .45Colt and 2400 or AA#9 for my target magnum loads. Still have a can of H110 but I rarely use it anymore. As I mentioned earlier, for me the magnumitis ship has sailed. :p
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5-1/2" is a common length for a 6" barrel to be cut back to when building an IPSC compensated race gun.
 
brutus51 said:
That explains it. Op is looking for velocities in the 1400fps. range which is hotter than I would want to go.
I'm guessing my AA#7 loads are yielding approx. 1250 to 1300, won't know until I can chrony them.
Think I'm getting the same results as you with Tightgroup which is a faster burning powder but even more frugal.
Click to expand...
Yeah but I am using 150s not 124s and I was really just lookin for a woods carry/ target / general purpose load. If ya want speed I'm getting just under 1550 fps with 135 nosler JHP in my 5" 10mm with Longshot
 
mavracer said:
Yeah but I am using 150s not 124s and I was really just lookin for a woods carry/ target / general purpose load. If ya want speed I'm getting just under 1550 fps with 135 nosler JHP in my 5" 10mm with Longshot
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I’ve loaded 10mm with 180 gr bullets and long shot. Pretty good powder for that cartridge.
 
Sorry didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. Actually I found your reduced longshot load interesting because the target loads I'm shooting with tightgroup really get my gun hot, great powder for accuracy but it does burn hot.
 
Picture of N105

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=47

lots of neat powder pictures there. Use the drop down at the top to select the powder.

This is also the first time I’ve ever bought powder online. Even with hazmat it was cheaper there than anywhere else
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If I order a couple lbs of powder and primers it comes out cheaper.
No hassle of trying to call the LGS and see what they have in stock.
With luck sometimes you can get reduced shipping or free hazmat.
(This only happens when I don't need powder or right after I have ordered however;))
 
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Dudedog said:
With lock sometimes you can get reduced shipping or free hazmat.
(This only happens when I don't need powder or right after I have ordered however;))
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:D Ain't that the truth of it. Im really fortunate that I have 4 local sources for powder and primers. All the big names are carried locally except for VV.
 
I have a local place with decent inventory, but their powder prices are 50% over gun show/internet prices. I recently paid $50 for 1K of CCI 450 primers. I could have almost paid hazmat for that.
 
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