There seems to be a lot of first time buyers

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Again, as a Hunter Safety instructor, I see a lot of folks that are unfamiliar with firearms. When our state legalized CWC and made so that a $25-$35 hunter safety course was all the training needed, our classes filled up with folks, that came from backgrounds where they had never had firearms in the house before(unlike many kids looking to hunt for the first time). While some of them may be ignorant to firearms, I've had many a long time hunter pick up a 1911 or a revolver and not have a clue as to how to operate it. Most newbies are much better at keeping their finger off the trigger than some more experienced hunters.

I think many of these new to firearm buyers were not necessarily anti-gun before this, as many here want us to believe, but just never felt as threatened, or saw a legitimate need. Many probably had other priorities in their limited budget. I feel sorry for those folks buying their first firearm and having the issue of finding ammo to feed it.
 
For dealing with newbies, apply the Don Rumsfeld wisdom:
Remember, they don't know what they don't know. Look for opportunities to help them move key gun-user knowledge from
what they don't know they don't know
into
what they know they don't know,
and subsequently into
what they know.

With that model, what is your idea of key knowledge, and what priority order would you place that knowledge into. I think we are likely to all agree that

#1. The Four Rules.

Feel free to add you own suggestions as to topics and order.
 
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I don't think anyone here is saying that. What they're saying is don't count on the panic buyers becoming staunch 2A supporters. They may see the need to keep a gun around, but there's no guarantee that they'll want to extend that right to you or me.


No, it doesn't guarante it right away but it does plant multiple 2A seeds.

In my mind, even if they don't become staunch 2A advocates right a way, they won't theirs taken away and should want their loved ones to be able to get one.... because,ya know, they're ok too cause they're family....

And of course, theyll think their friends should be able to get one if they want cause you know, they're good people too cause they're friends with the new buyer and of they consider themselves good people with good friends.


AND ALL of those people AND MORE will be forced to learn that guns dont go off by themselves and don't turn them into murders for no reason.... and some of those will realize their favorite anti 2A bobble heads have been either lying to them or completely ignorant of they say.


The whole thing really helps bend the curve of the anti 2A pandemic.


Some folks seem to think we are going to have a bunch of newbies blowing holes in their walls or faces and roaming the streets causing mayhem because they are poorly or not trained at all.

Same thing when AZ went to constitutional CC and those with a CCP can CC in bar.... BLOOD IN THE STREETS WILL HAPPEN OVER DRUNKEN LOST POOL AND DART GAMES.

Nope. Never happened.
 
I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking. To me, teaching a friend or relative about guns, or helping them in their selection of one to buy is entirely different than loaning them one. Except for the pellet rifle I loaned a buddy to deal with his squirrel problem last summer, I don’t loan guns, period.

Besides that, things are different than they were a few weeks ago. As a matter of fact, just three weeks ago, a rancher friend of mine who was looking to get a concealed carry gun (and possibly one for his wife) asked me and my wife over to their place to show them what we carry. He, his wife, my wife and I all went out behind their house and popped off a few dozen rounds of 380, 38 Special, and 9mm. Then we went in the house and drank coffee and visited for a while. We wouldn’t do that now. We’re all staying home.

BTW, I think my rancher friend’s wife fell in love with my wife’s M&P Shield, 380EZ. So if she doesn’t have one by now, she probably will when this is over.;)
I was a Federal Firearms Instructor for eighteen years. I have a private range. I let it be known that I would instruct and supply guns for training to any Family member or friend. Some took me up on it, most didn't. Now there has been contact from people wanting a gun NOW. I don't lend out guns, and I'm not going to do face to face training in today's climate. I do feel bad about this sometimes, but not bad enough. Do you wait until you have a fire before you look for an extinguisher? You can walk into a gun store plunk down your money and walk out with a gun in 20 minutes or so.
 
No, it doesn't guarante it right away but it does plant multiple 2A seeds.

In my mind, even if they don't become staunch 2A advocates right a way, they won't theirs taken away and should want their loved ones to be able to get one.... because,ya know, they're ok too cause they're family....

Which may happen. But it does no one any good to sit around now spinning fantasies that we'll soon be living in a world where 5th graders get daily range time.
 
I was a Federal Firearms Instructor for eighteen years. I have a private range. I let it be known that I would instruct and supply guns for training to any Family member or friend. Some took me up on it, most didn't. Now there has been contact from people wanting a gun NOW. I don't lend out guns, and I'm not going to do face to face training in today's climate. I do feel bad about this sometimes, but not bad enough. Do you wait until you have a fire before you look for an extinguisher? You can walk into a gun store plunk down your money and walk out with a gun in 20 minutes or so.
I still don't understand your original question in post #41 in this thread.
Edited to say: Oh, okay - I've re-read both of your posts in this thread and I think I get it now. You're asking if your being a "jerk" because you're refusing to provide face-to-face training, and for that matter, guns to friends and relatives during this virus thing. Is that right? Is that what you're asking? If that is what you're asking, then no, I don't think you're being a "jerk" at all. I think you're being sensible.:)
And as far as the people running out to buy their first gun during this crisis goes - yeah, I too think it's "waiting until you have a fire before looking for a fire extinguisher." But who knows - maybe some of those folks running out to buy their first guns during this crisis will eventually get some training. And maybe some of them will join our ranks and become 2A advocates. I doubt there will be many, but I've always been a pessimist. So I could be wrong.;)
 
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How are you reacting to friends/relatives that either want to borrow a gun or seek your help in buying one and training them ? I want to see if I'm being selfish jerk.

I'm very reluctant to see how their inability to plan for the future properly translates into my
obligation to compensate for that, regarding firearms. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has had to deal with pigheaded regulations, difficulty finding suppliers, out of stock items, and all the other firearms road blocks and speed bumps, caused mainly by anti-2As, or people who were apathetic, and just stood by, and let it all happen. NOW, we're expected to just smooth the road, for these folks who want to knock on our door, and demand a gun, at the 11th hour ? I don't think so Tim...
 
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I doubt there will be many, but I've always been a pessimist. So I could be wrong.

Uh, I've always been an optimist, so I think bunches and bunches will join and become advocates ...many will even stop singing "Kumbaya" and replace that with "Shooter Like Me," among the many classics posted here on the music thread. I can't wait...
 
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Just a reminder, pure politics and denouncing someone for being an X rather than a Y in political orientation is not useful. Such deleted.
 
First post here. I'm a newbie. Haven't even bought a gun yet, but I'm interested. That's why I joined this forum. Smarten up before I make a move. My father had pistols and ammo loose in his drawers when I was growing up. Pretty dumb for a smart guy. He used to cc when he took the train to NYC. I've shot pistols, shotguns and rifles in the past and am looking to get a pistol for home protection. Thinking Glock 30. Wanna ask a newbie a question? Here's your chance.
 
First post here. I'm a newbie. Haven't even bought a gun yet, but I'm interested. That's why I joined this forum. Smarten up before I make a move. My father had pistols and ammo loose in his drawers when I was growing up. Pretty dumb for a smart guy. He used to cc when he took the train to NYC. I've shot pistols, shotguns and rifles in the past and am looking to get a pistol for home protection. Thinking Glock 30. Wanna ask a newbie a question? Here's your chance.

Welcome to....THR.. :)

So... as a self proclaimed newbie, why are you thinking of a G30?

Why glock?
Why 45?
Why a compact model for home defense?
What/why did you decide to buy now?
Do you intend to get training or a CCP?
 
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First post here. I'm a newbie. Haven't even bought a gun yet, but I'm interested. That's why I joined this forum. Smarten up before I make a move. My father had pistols and ammo loose in his drawers when I was growing up. Pretty dumb for a smart guy. He used to cc when he took the train to NYC. I've shot pistols, shotguns and rifles in the past and am looking to get a pistol for home protection. Thinking Glock 30. Wanna ask a newbie a question? Here's your chance.
Welcome aboard! As danez71 points out, someone looking for their first gun breeds lots of questions. You might want to start a thread focused on your scenario. You’ll get lots of good suggestions.

I guess I would like to ask though, why now? Just bought your first home? Just hit the proper age? Family to protect?
 
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New to the forum doesn’t mean new to guns. Imagine Jerry M joins tomorrow; how many will treat him as an “ignorant newbie” if he uses an alias. Probably everybody.
 
First post here. I'm a newbie. Thinking Glock 30. Wanna ask a newbie a question? Here's your chance.
Yeah, why a G30?
.45 ACP in a sub-compact is gonna have some blast and recoil due to it's short barrel and 24oz. weight. Newbies have problems enough with flinching and a pocket cannon ain't gonna help. Not to mention that 45acp ammo cost twice as much as 9mm (if you can find it). Check out a Sig P365 before you make the leap.
 
I just bought two guns in the last 5 days. It had nothing to do with panic, just good deals and boredom.
I really don’t see why some gun owners are getting worked up about all these first time gun buyers. It’s not like this is the first time it has ever happened, and most likely not the last.
Yes. A bunch of these first time buyers may never shoot their new gun. Some may go out and shoot it without ever getting any training. But does it really change your life? No.
But then think of it like this. A few months ago there were a lot more people that didn’t think we needed guns to protect ourselves. Today many of them now own a gun to protect themselves.
Also look at it this way. How many politicians are going to try and push gun control after seeing how many people just went out and bought guns.
 
New to the forum doesn’t mean new to guns. Imagine Jerry M joins tomorrow; how many will treat him as an “ignorant newbie” if he uses an alias. Probably everybody.
Doubtful unless he plays with us asking teenager type questions to see how we react
 
First post here. I'm a newbie. Haven't even bought a gun yet, but I'm interested. That's why I joined this forum. Smarten up before I make a move...I've shot pistols, shotguns and rifles in the past and am looking to get a pistol for home protection. Thinking Glock 30. Wanna ask a newbie a question? Here's your chance.

Welcome to THR!

Here are some basics to consider:

1) Typically, when we talk about handguns for home defense, full-size autoloaders tend to be popular. They have longer grips that allow the shooter to grip the gun with his or her whole hand, hold plenty of rounds, and often have accessory rails where weapon-mounted lights can be mounted.

2) Glocks are fine guns. They are reliable and reasonably priced. Good deals are often available on used Glocks. Well, in normal times, anyway!

3) With regard to cartridge, handguns are all remarkably ineffective at quickly stopping an attack. Conventional wisdom holds that common service cartridges (e.g. 9mm, 40S&W, 45 ACP) firing hollow point bullets of modern design are all about equally effective. Or perhaps equally INeffective. Putting shots in the right places is FAR more important than the cartridge used.

4) Getting training in safe shooting and gun handling is a must. Do this right away. Find an NRA instuctor or other competent teacher to help you with this. Next, plan on getting training in using the gun effectively. Finally, practice what you've been taught.

We spend a lot of time here discussing the best gun types, brands, ammo, and training for different situations. Not everyone agrees with what I've described above. And your hands, eyes, home, neighborhood, family, budget, and other factors are unique to you so some of this conventional wisdom may not work for you.

But if you have questions, we're ALL here to help!
 
First post here. I'm a newbie. Haven't even bought a gun yet, but I'm interested. That's why I joined this forum. Smarten up before I make a move. My father had pistols and ammo loose in his drawers when I was growing up. Pretty dumb for a smart guy. He used to cc when he took the train to NYC. I've shot pistols, shotguns and rifles in the past and am looking to get a pistol for home protection. Thinking Glock 30. Wanna ask a newbie a question? Here's your chance.
Anything you are looking at it, go to a range and shoot it first. I am a large Glock fan-boy but YOU gotta like it first and foremost. Glock 30 a pretty big bang..LOTS of really good(Glock!) choices.
Check out a Sig P365 before you make the leap.

Funny, when somebody asks about putnameofgunhere, that's not a Glock and somebody says, 'buy a Glock', the howls of indignation!, 'Glock fan boy!!'..guy ask about a Glock?, 'check out a Sig'..crickets..

LOTS of interweb 'opinions', lots about handgun reliability, soft 'r' recalls, 'voluntary' send back to fix examples..BUT shoot whatever first..For that size, also shoot a Glock 19, 23, 26....
 
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A few posts caught my eye, but please don't expect for them to be related.
How are you reacting to friends/relatives that either want to borrow a gun or seek your help in buying one and training them ? I want to see if I'm being selfish jerk.
Reading your posts in this thread, it seems to be a question about your willingness to loan guns? Maybe? If so, whether you loan guns or ammo or not isn't the determining factor in my mind. It's how you go about declining. As for me, I know a few people to whom I'd be willing to loan guns. Of that group, I've known most (probably all) of them at least 10 years and know that they have no felony record. (They're either police, lawyers, or friends of 30+ years.) That said, I know good and well that there are risks involved. I'm particularly aware of the legal risks and I'm willing to take those, in light of the potential harm to lifelong friends if I don't loan them one. Realistically, I'm probably better prepared than most to deal with a police investigation if things were to go south.

....Now is the time to be a good ambassador, maybe even on a proactive level.
....We can all be ambassadors if we choose to.
....I will accept these new folks into our realm, without castigation and hope they become safe and responsible gun owners. I see no reason to alienate them just because they are new, or that they did so out of fear for themselves and their families. Been there done that.
These all speak to the idea of being a good ambassador, which I first remember (in the gun community) as being Cap'n Charlie's signature line, if memory serves. If ever there was a time to be a good ambassador, it's now.

There are some things we know, some things we don't know, some things we can't know, and some things we suspect. Looking at the FBI's NICS Month/Year breakdown , we can see that NICS checks in March 2020 were 3.74M. That's up 900k over February 2020, and 1.1M over March 2019. We know that it's not going to be a 1:1 ratio of NICS Check to Firearm Sales, but it's still pretty telling.

I think it's safe to say that there are a lot of 1st time gun buyers right now. We may not know the percentages on how many of those NICS Checks are for them, but I have no reason to doubt the FFLs we have here who are telling us "it'sabunch." We also don't know (or have any way of knowing) how many of them were antigun 6 weeks ago. We can reasonably assume that some were. We can also reasonably that some of those 1st time buyers were simply neutral on the gun issue. We (the gun community) has been under attack for my entire adult life, and we need to reach as many of those folks as we can.

Don't want to loan someone a gun? Fine, but don't be a jackass about it. (Generally. I'm not calling anyone in this thread out, despite having quoted a few folks above.) Explain why: "I'm sorry, but you're asking me to loan you a deadly weapon, and I just don't know you well enough to do that. But come over for coffee one day. We can talk about guns and I'll help you figure out what you need."

First post here. I'm a newbie. Haven't even bought a gun yet, but I'm interested. That's why I joined this forum. Smarten up before I make a move. My father had pistols and ammo loose in his drawers when I was growing up. Pretty dumb for a smart guy. He used to cc when he took the train to NYC. I've shot pistols, shotguns and rifles in the past and am looking to get a pistol for home protection. Thinking Glock 30. Wanna ask a newbie a question? Here's your chance.
Welcome to THR, maaxflux. Like a poster above, I'd be curious as to what brings you to firearms. I think (and hope) that you'll find that our members are awfully helpful.

Might I recommend that you head down into our Handguns: Autoloaders forum and look around? I think you'll find a lot of information on the G30, and if you don't find what you want, feel free to start a thread of your own.
 
That said, I know good and well that there are risks involved. I'm particularly aware of the legal risks and I'm willing to take those, in light of the potential harm to lifelong friends if I don't loan them one. Realistically, I'm probably better prepared than most to deal with a police investigation if things were to go south.
Spats has tipped to a key risk I had forgotten about, and many others may have, also. Once a bullet has exited a barrel, no matter what the circumstances or the resultant physical damage, there is a non-zero probability of a civil lawsuit. Such a suit is likely without regard to what may or may not happen in the criminal justice system. And a good lawyer* will include any person or entity logically linked to the incident in that suit. The owner who knowingly transferred possession of the firearm to the person who was holding the gun at the time will be ahead of the retail store and manufacturer in that list of those being sued. Being ready to describe reasonable due diligence for the transfer may help out in defending yourself.

Thank you, Spats.

* The term "good lawyer" in my lexicon does not imply any level of morality or ethics**, only the ability to get the most beneficial result for the client.
** The term "legal ethics" has its own history of interesting interpretations.
 
Gave a box of 20gauge bird shot to a friend. Apparently he didn’t have any shells at all. Funny this is I don’t even own a 20gauge. I’m sure a lot of guys on the forum have ammo for guns they don’t have.
 
That's true, found a box of 40 SW after I ditched that round years ago.
 
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