Newspaper makes good on threat to publish CCW holder's names (merged)

I am surprised I haven't heard from Jim March on this one. He is using this freedom of information act stuff in California for good. He wants to link the CCW permits to favoritism and racism in an attempt to reform the system. That was the original intent of allowing this information to become public to a limited extent. Have we considered that this is all a bigger conspiracy set about by the anti-gunners to get the records sealed so they can then begin discriminate in issuance without any means of oversight.

Law-abiding watchdog says,
"I don't think you are issuing permits to qualified applicants and furthermore I think the permits you are issueing are not reflective of the people in your jurisdiction. I would like to see a list of your CCW holders."

Sheriff/Police Chief's Response,
"I am sorry, but I am mandated by Ohio law to keep these records private. There is nothing I can do about your request and I assure you I am not being discrimatory in my issuance procedures. Have a nice day."

I think it is a good idea to make the records available and a good idea to make provisions to punish those who abuse the system. I think it is a bad idea to eliminate this oversight provision because liberals are abusing it. Think about this one.

Where would the newspaper's liability lie should a break in occur at one of the residences and the stolen gun was used in a serious and violent crime and it was proven later the burglar chose that residence because of the name and address post in the newspaper?

Just another thought put out since most other bases have been covered.

Guys, this is a non-issue. For those of you who don't know me, I teach CCW classes in newly emancipated Missouri.

IMO it is only interesting to look at who has licenses in MAY ISSUE states such as California and in NJ or NYC. In shall-issue states, rich guys have licenses, and so do guys who work on assembly lines. Big deal.

As to the argument "Now the crooks will know I own guns", oh puh-leez. Sixty percent of the adults in this country own guns.

A better letter to the editor might read:

Dear XXXX,

I'd like to commend you for publishing the list of CHL holders recently. While some may see this as a sensationalistic invasion of privacy, there is another issue that is far more important:

CHL holders (like me) first and foremost want to AVOID having to use the guns we carry. The best that can happen from an armed conflict with a criminal is that we get to keep the life we had the day before. This is most easily accomplished if the conflict never arises in the first place.

You have essentially published an "avoid" list for the criminal community to read and heed. Some will argue that it is also a list of people who own at least one gun, making these people targets for burglars. Since over half the adults in this country own at least one gun, your list is really a list of those few people in the area who have the training, the means, AND THE WILL to *refuse* to submit to violent criminals.

Any burglar foolish enough to use your publication as a shopping list will find himself in jail (or worse) in short order. Those who doubt this should ask themselves if criminals typically rob police officers because police have guns? Since CHL licenseholders are in general more skilled at defensive shooting than the police (there are hundreds of examples of this), CHL holders are about the last group that criminals want contact with.

Thanks for reducing the likelihood I'll ever have to shoot someone in self-defense.

XXXX


Use this if you want.

JR

Publish info on the paper's management.

Publish info on the paper's owners if a private company.

Publish info on the paper's stockholders if a public company.

Publish info on the paper's key management.

Publish info on the paper's legal counsel.

Publish info on the paper's key advertisers.

Write the paper's key advertisers.

CC: your elected reps and tell them to fix the problem or they will get the treatment.

It is one thing to have CCH licenses as a matter of public record. It is an entirely different matter to have it published in a fit of jihad against self-defense.

What if the paper published the name and address of someone who was being stalked and got there CCW for that explicit reason? Then the stalker saw the info in the paper and used it to track down there stalkee. I guess things are a little different here in Florida than Ohio, if they published the huge list of CCW holders in the local newspapers, the lawyers here would be salivating in the mouth at the chance for a class action lawsuit.

I posted this in another form regarding the Plain Dealers past ownership.
I think ol Marnie would be rolling over in her grave over all this.

Archive file: 09/16/03

Services for Marnie Vail McCausland, a National Rifle Association women's muzzleloading rifle champion whose family owned The Plain Dealer for more than 80 years, will be at 1 p.m. today at Vorhis Funeral Home, 5501 Montgomery Road, Norwood, Ohio.

McCausland, 45, whose given name was Marienne Vail, died of complications from cancer Wednesday at the Hospice of Cincinnati.

The Cleveland native, who grew up in Shaker Heights, was a descendant of Liberty E. Holden, who bought The Plain Dealer in 1885 and whose heirs owned the paper until 1967. Thomas H. White, founder of White Sewing Machine Co., also was one of her ancestors.

McCausland's parents, Kay Vail, who lives in Shaker Heights, and H. Lansing Vail Jr., who died in June, fostered her passion for the outdoors and game hunting.

Her husband, Samuel, who died of cancer in 2001, shared her love of firearms. He introduced her to muzzleloaders, which marksmen load with black powder.

Since the mid-1990s, McCausland won several NRA and National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association sharpshooting contests.

She also worked in the firearms industry. McCausland, who held a communications degree from Cedarville University, was a range officer for Target World of Cincinnati and a public relations adviser for Thompson Center Arms of Rochester, N.H. More recently, she managed communications for Savage Arms, a Massachusetts-based manufacturer of muzzleloaders and classic firearms.

McCausland hunted antelope in Wyoming, bagged a bear in West Virginia and ran a whitetail deer hunt for women in Texas. She also participated in historic re-enactments, showed her quarter horse, rode motorcycles and climbed Mount Rainier.

Surviving with her mother are her brother, Robert L. Vail of Russell Township, and sister, Delia Fritz of Hackettstown, N.J.

how long before firearm purchases become 'open record' and are published for all to see?

As to the argument "Now the crooks will know I own guns", oh puh-leez. Sixty percent of the adults in this country own guns.

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Okay. Do you own any gold coins? How about we take an ad out in the paper that says "John Ross owns an extensive collection of gold coins, and his house is unattended during the day because he works for a living."

Great. I just got through with an informal meeting with my supervisor and one of our owners at the company I work for. I was asked- "Do you know your name is in the paper?- (I did), Do you know why? (yes) Do you have anything to say about this? (no)". Needless to say, I work for a pretty anti 2a company. I keep my personal life private, and one motivating factor to obtain my CHL was an EXTREMELY vindictive ex- brother in law who has not been stopped by my sister's TPO's- (She lives next door to me).

Great. I just got through with an informal meeting with my supervisor and one of our owners at the company I work for.

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Start looking for a lawyer now. No sense waiting until you are fired.

Jackthelad
I'm most curious as to the name of this organization you work for....
Can they actually drag you on the carpet cause your name was in the paper for CCW?

That has happened at least twice in VA, that I am aware of. The most recent time it was an online database that a little local paper threw together.

The VCDL started to publish every staff member at that little paper's personal info to their web page and mailing list. You don't really want 3,000+ people calling you and mailing you 24/7 asking you to stop doing something.

The paper blinked first, the database went away.

I don't know, as an LEO, we are all subject to FOIA requests and often, the paper will publish all sorts of personal data on LEOs including their names, addresses, DOBs, phone #s, employment history, disciplinary history (Even the accusations that were unfounded), any reports they have filed...etc. Back in Memphrica a person could obtain a mountain of info about any officer just by going to the jail and asking for it...

It sucks that the info is out there in public, but you are not alone. We have been living with that PITA for a long time.

Rimmer,
The company I work for is a title insurance agency, and employs approx 40 people. No bold "calling on the carpet", but rather a snide condescending attitude and a reminder of our company policy on firearms in the workplace.

I notice a number of names from the various open carry frays here - would'nt publishing these names deter bad guys from attacking them? Can anyone document a case of somebody being burgled because of a list like this?



I dont think it was a great thing to do, but really enjoy watching people try to eat their cake and have it too.

It is kind of funny that al of these bold, "make a public statement about your rights types" get so hot when they are thrust into public just like the rest of us. I might even start referring to these CCW holders as a special class and calling myself a serf or a peon since I wasn't special enough to get my name in the paper... LOL

What you see here is the plain face of so called "Liberals". No better joy for them than to eliminate EVERYONE not agreeing with their views.

No matter if it's legal or not it is ETHICALLY despicable. These "Liberals" side with criminals to gain (as they think) power to rule.

It's an open invitation for criminals either to to burglar houses where they can find arms, or to burglar houses where they can be sure there are NO arms. It is instigation to commit a crime for political reasons.

Goebbels would be proud of them.

El Rojo, no offense, and condolences for living in a MAY issue. butOhio is a SHALL issue... so that's not SO MUCH of a concern...IMO. But good too be thinking on it

The biggest PRACTICAL problem _I_ see w/this is what IF a woman (or for that matter a guy, but for "argument's sake" a woman seems to press more "defenseless" buttons) who obtained a CHL did so EXPRESSLY to have a defense against some psycho ex-boyfriend? What if by making this intel "available" when it previously was NOT BY LAW (for just this reason I believe at least in part) clued the stalker ex-boyfriend aware what county his ex-girlfriend NOW resides in? What if by obtaining this info he now can AGAIN begin harassing her? I mean talk about CLUELESS MALE WHITE PHOQUES!

Rimmer noted

Jackthelad
I'm most curious as to the name of this organization you work for....
Can they actually drag you on the carpet cause your name was in the paper for CCW?

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No offense, but take it from one who has heard MANY stories, they don't NEED to state a "purpose" all they have to do is give him poor reviews over the next 2-3 months, perhaps a bogus reprimand or two for whatever... then dismiss him for "poor work performance".

Frankly I'm too valuable as an employee to ever have BEEN "fired" (except once where I basically "orchestrated" it for my own reasons.) And when I interview I stay "quiet" about being a lesbian, once offered a job, I make it VERY clear I am, (BEFORE accepting the job) but stress that I'm NOT an "in your face" type. Life's too short to spend stressing in a job you either don't enjoy, or who benefits the "wrong sort" of person(s) (bigots), whether that we anti-gay OR anti-GUN bigots, IMO... Guess I'll need to add RKBA supporter to my "vices" in future interviews.... I guess I AM "in your face" about the RKBA stuff.... but not at work ... that would in 98% of cases be unprofessional...

No offense taken Lazpash, I often forget that there are free citizens beyond our borders who don't have to have a good reason. Fortunately I live in a enclave of freedom loving people's and I have my CCW.

Fed, I am puzzled. Your comments- "It is kind of funny that all of these bold, "make a public statement about your rights types" get so hot when they are thrust into public just like the rest of us.", seems to be a bit mean spirited. Why? I have never asked to be thrust into public, and would dare to say I have never posted here indicating otherwise. Sorry, I thought all of us here were here due to a common interest, and didn't think that we were here to feed on each other. Oh, and this comment - " I might even start referring to these CCW holders as a special class and calling myself a serf or a peon since I wasn't special enough to get my name in the paper... LOL", -What is that about? Is that about the on again/off again LEO bashing that I have seen occasionally? No flame intended here, just curious about where you are coming from.

Why not write a letter to the Editor:

Dear Mr. WussyPants,

Thank you for letting the community know that I am legally armed and well prepared to defend my self and my family, should we be accosted by muggers, rapists, or a home invasion.

I am sure that it has made my area of the commuinity safer, by ensuring that anyone with curiosity regarding legal carry can find out who has excersized this most American of rights, encouraging the criminals to seek non-armed victims in other areas.

I am confident that many others will want to join me in becoming educated and legally licensed to protect their loved ones in this manner, once it becomes common knowledge that you will assist us in serving notice to any would-be attackers.

Once again, thank you for supporting this fundamental human right of self-defense.

And sir, if you claim to be a balanced media outlet, I'm interested to see if you will print this as a unique perspective on your actions.

Sincerely,
A Citizen

Thoughts?

Jack, it was not intended to offend, just poke fun at some of the folks that like to refer to themselves as "Serfs" in the LEO bashing discussions. They constantly seem to complain about their percieved lack of equality and rejoice in LEOs personal lives being thrust into public... I realize that many of the people on that list are not like that and I do feel sorry for them.

No problem, I was just trying to follow the thread.

One of the things that I was thinking has been mentioned.Do the non CCW folks not realize that this is pointing them out as unarmed and therefore a safer target for criminals?

What if by making this intel "available" when it previously was NOT BY LAW (for just this reason I believe at least in part) clued the stalker ex-boyfriend aware what county his ex-girlfriend NOW resides in? What if by obtaining this info he now can AGAIN begin harassing her? I mean talk about CLUELESS MALE WHITE PHOQUES!

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Exactly.

I work as a computer programmer for the State of Ohio, and in all the systems I have worked for there is information that you don't want to get out to the general public, EXACTLY for one of the reasons listed above. Some others are for those who have restraining orders.

I know specifically for child support that there are a lot of now single mothers who are getting their money from ex-hubby, and hubby does not know where she resides, and for good reason.

Newspaper, TV news and news magazines today are all about ratings and entertainment. Very few are interested in reporting the news as it happened. The reporters think that by "sensationalizing" the story that somehow makes it better. To the Plain Dealer, this is just another story to try and get them more readers and to hell with anyone that gets hurt along the way.

The only way they will learn is if/when they get sued and they can prove that their actions were negligent.