How long did muzzle loaders and cap and ball revolvers remain in use in the West?

Well, Winchester lever actions never “Won the West”.

More likely it was muzzleloading rifles and shotguns that truly won it.

I don’t really know but my guess is they were still in common use into the 1920s.

Just guessing but cartridge guns were probably more popular around 1880, maybe 85. Muzzleloaders were still being used in the 20's. I remember reading somewhere that Sears was still selling new Belgium made muzzleloading shotguns as late as 1920.

In many cases (although not universally), returning Doughboys from WW1 were allowed to keep their rifles. Typically these would have been M1917 Enfields. The availability of these "free" surplus rifles would have been the final death knell of the muzzleloaders. (The people still using muzzleloaders in 1920 would have been the poorest of the poor.)

AlexanderA said:

In many cases (although not universally), returning Doughboys from WW1 were allowed to keep their rifles.

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First I've heard of that. Not saying it isn't true. Weapons belonged to the government and normally would have gone to the armorer to be checked out and reissued to the next recruit. WWI soldiers may have been able to bring back captured guns without too much hassle. WWII soldiers could sometimes bring back captured weapons but they had to have them papered. It was easier to sneak out pistols than it was rifles. You used to see Arisakas and Mausers with duffel cuts to the stock. Most of those got sporterized.

I my reading several times it has been mentioned that the US Gov sold off huge quantities of the Springfield Trapdoor cartridge rifle in late 1800's early 1900's, prices I have read said for as little as $10.

Judging from his first cartridge patent, looks like Oliver Winchester figured the muzzleloader would be around for a while.

This article is copied (in part) from the 1952 Gun Digest published by the Gun Digest Company - Chicago 6.
Article is on pages 172 - 177 and was written by Paul S. Foster who was considered THE cartridge authority of his day.




With the chamber inserts, one could have kept using his Henry or '66 even after the rimfire round was dropped in the 1920's IIRC.

JT

I've read accounts of folks still using flinters into the 50s. I believe the story was in the Appalachian area, really poor folks in isolated places.

I've read Colt stopped making open top percussion revolvers the same year they started making cartridge firing SAA revolvers, 1873.

My dads dad started me shooting with his 1860 Army and plains style .52. I don’t know when he made the transition to cartridges but he was born in 1888 and we have photos of him hunting with his muzzleloader dated 1910. His father died when Grandpa was 9 and he was the oldest of 5 kids so he became a full time rancher along with his mother. Hunted every time he could spare the time and he fed the family and a few others he called less fortunate. He never said it but I guess they didn’t have money for new guns.

hawg said:

First I've heard of that. Not saying it isn't true. Weapons belonged to the government and normally would have gone to the armorer to be checked out and reissued to the next recruit. WWI soldiers may have been able to bring back captured guns without too much hassle. WWII soldiers could sometimes bring back captured weapons but they had to have them papered. It was easier to sneak out pistols than it was rifles. You used to see Arisakas and Mausers with duffel cuts to the stock. Most of those got sporterized.

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My dad brought back several pistols and a Lebel carbine. He or one of his buddies sent them through official channels. He left Germany on a hospital ship and wouldn’t have been able to manage it.
I’m sure a lot of people went the surplus route as a means to get “better” guns than the lowly muzzleloader.

Yup....it was difficult to completely replace the old BP firearms. There were many people who lived where it was very difficult to obtain that fancy new fangled cartridge ammo, let alone reload it. It was super easy to melt lead over a fire and mold balls and BP was as normal for the local general store to carry as flour and sugar. Everyone had a store of lead and powder. They were simply easier for the self sufficient to use and buying a cartridge gun was not only very expensive, it was expensive to operate as well.

Colt offered a service to do conversions on the old BP pistols for about 1/4 the cost of a new 73. So there were lots of those done as well.

In Tombstone, the 58 Remmy was the most common pistol found when doing somewhat recent excavations at the location of Spangenburgs original gun shop. The fire was in the early 1880's. There were numerous Colt's, several lever guns and a lot of shotguns.

So as much as Hollywood wants us to believe that everyone carried a 73, it was not the case.

Speedo66 said:

I've read Colt stopped making open top percussion revolvers the same year they started making cartridge firing SAA revolvers, 1873.

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Pretty much everybody did by 1875. There would still be a lot of percussions on shelves and a lot of people are slow to accept change. I imagine it took awhile for most people to accept them.

In his books, Elmer Keith talks of using cap and ball revolvers before trading to get his first cartridge gun at about 12 I think. My take on it was that poor folks used what they could scrounge, and that kids were often permitted to have guns if they scrounged their own. So, the cheapest effective handgun is a percussion. Stands to reason that they were used by kids after the adults switched to cartridge arms.

JT-AR-MG42 said:

Judging from his first cartridge patent, looks like Oliver Winchester figured the muzzleloader would be around for a while.

This article is copied (in part) from the 1952 Gun Digest published by the Gun Digest Company - Chicago 6.
Article is on pages 172 - 177 and was written by Paul S. Foster who was considered THE cartridge authority of his day.

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View attachment 1120929
With the chamber inserts, one could have kept using his Henry or '66 even after the rimfire round was dropped in the 1920's IIRC.

JT

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That’s cool, Thanks for sharing that and the source.

From my reading and research, percussion rifles and revolvers continued in use into the early 20th Century. Not surprisingly there was a gradually increasing decline in their use as breach loading cartridge firearms became more and more available along with their ammunition.

As alluded to above the earlier technologies (percussion and even flint ignition) lasted longest in the more remote portions of the West and among the poorer members of the frontier communities. This was also reflected in the deepest parts of Appalachia and other very rural areas east of the Mississippi.

Dave

The Hudson Bay factory at Winnipeg had muzzle loading percussion Northwest guns on inventory in the 1930s. One assumes those were in use in remote areas after that time.

I inherited a brace of 36 cal. cap and ball percussion revolvers ... Manhattan Firearms Co.
and they came with the "War Between the States " used by a ancester in that conflict story ...
Sounded good until research of the production numbers shows my 4th models were made in 1873 !
1873 ! ! ! How the heck could that be ... well turns out cap and ball percussions were cheaper than cartridge and a lot of farmers couldn't afford the pricey new models so they went with afforable and affordable firearms sold well into 1900's !
Gary

earlthegoat2 said:

Well, Winchester lever actions never “Won the West”.

More likely it was muzzleloading rifles and shotguns that truly won it.

...

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Steel swords and lances, a few crossbows with an occasional arquebus were enough, especially combined with horses and opportunistic viral infections.

Not going to speculate about the west, BUT with shipping costs being notable to get things from east to west, it stands to reason that things got more expensive as they went further west, especially for areas not well served by a rail line.

Consider this though, Alvin York was very well known to still be using black powder guns up to the time of his entry into the army. Google says he was drafted in 1917. Old Alvin was from a relatively poor family in Middle Tennessee, so likely on par with most of the folks trying to earn a living off of the land out west. If he was using black powder arms in the teens, then certainly folks out west were as well.

Another historical point to note is that during WW1 it was not entirely uncommon for a soldier to bring back a weapon or two captured from the enemy in battle. Also not entirely uncommon for the soldiers rifle to end up as his property after his enlistment. That puts a lot of guns going home with soldiers following WW1. Where did those soldiers live work and play??? Everywhere, but a good chunk of the enlisted soldiers were from the poor areas of the country. A lot of families out west would have had a son serving and sending a paycheck home since that would go further than that same person doing labor subsistence farming with his family, or working one of the grunt labor jobs available at the time.

My suspicions are that the answer to this question is different for various areas based mainly upon when they were modernized, when they became served by rail, and then finished off by the close of WW1 and the troops returning home.

I just remembered I had an 1861 Springfield stock with a 45-70 trapdoor barrel mounted in it. Somebody had been converting it to a muzzleloader but they broke the stock. Apparently this was a thing around the turn of the century. I had a pic of the whole thing but can't find it now.

I think as a hunting arm, no reason to give up on blackpowder cap and ball. The cost per shot is a consideration if you’re poor.

Bazoo said:

I think as a hunting arm, no reason to give up on blackpowder cap and ball. The cost per shot is a consideration if you’re poor.

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They still work.

StrawHat said:

This is my old Springfield 1866, Trapdoor mounted in a Harpers Ferry Mississippi stock, lock and small parts.
View attachment 1121038

Kevin

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A Hollyweird rifle.