I am just curious why they even recommend removing the detent pin. Seems like an unnecessary operation.
Following is recap of what happened today for transparency of our "Open" collaboration.
Had multiple email exchanges with Calvin and even with John Lee this afternoon:
- We brainstormed many ideas and possible solutions
- Went back to the beginning and retraced step-by-step
- Tool head was taken off the ram because I could not apply straight unscrewing force with a Phillips head screwdriver
- Initial attempt was done with a Phillips head screw driver turning counter-clockwise but there was a lot of resistance with no movement of detent pin
- Tool head was even mounted into a vise and pressure applied to tip of detent pin while unscrewing but still no movement of detent pin
- Apparently the detent pin is supposed to readily unscrew from the tool head just using a Phillips head screwdriver so I responded to Calvin perhaps they could send me a tool head with detent pin that would readily unscrew - "... unscrewing the detent pin counter-clockwise keeps turning and staying TIGHT. If for some reason the detent pin/tool head is not doing what it's supposed to do, could you send me a tool head with detent pin that can be readily unscrewed?"
Excerpt of several email exchanges with Calvin:
Me - "Could the detent pin possibly have been overtightened at the factory so as to strip the plastic thread? If so, it could explain counter-clock turning not loosening the detent pin. And if that is the case, then some kind of QC step may be needed to prevent another occurrence or another customer will have the same experience."
Calvin - "I am checking further with assembly on how these are assembled, my concern is they are getting over tightened."
(Most recent email) Calvin - That is what I spent some time looking into today. I have a new part on my desk that is assembled correctly. I will send it out tomorrow for you to give a try.
Calvin - "... in reviewing the disassembly of the press steps, I would like to provide some caution. The small cross bar in the middle of the feed ramp should not be used as a lever point, damage sustained to that portion will negatively impact the priming function of the press. The primer arm relies on that cross bar to hinge at the proper height for primer feeding. I would work the feed ramp loose in any other portion along the bottom of the part where it meets the ram."
< I did try pulling/twisting the tool head loose with my hands but it didn't budge hence why I had to pry the tool head up with a flathead screwdriver (BTW, tool head slides up). I will convey this more in detail with Calvin tomorrow as I am sure he was inundated with overloading issues/emails today >
Calvin - "At the end of the day, I am not sure how important 'locking' the press in for single stage operation truly is."
Me - "That was my thought initially for single station operation but when the documentation instructed to remove the detent pin, I thought 'Engineers/technicians at Lee must know something' and proceeded to remove the detent pin without success."
Calvin - "If the index rod is removed the press will cycle correctly and maintain the proper position, can you give this a try and let me know your feedback and thoughts."
< And I suggested >
Me - "If another slot was cut on the bearing plate, a simple drop of pin will allow single stage operation without having to remove the detent pin" < Pictures of modified bearing plate sent >
Calvin - "We would prefer to have this function the way we have intended. Plus that will be a much quicker remedy than adjusting the bearing ring. I apologize, I am not trying to minimize your experience or input."
Calvin - "Realistically, the press can be operated as a single stage press with only the index rod removed and no further action, the pin installation as guided in the instructions just provides further feedback to the user to confirm positive alignment."
Me to John Lee - "turret design ... with absolute zero index detent pin ... cone shaped opening on tool carrier/turret to guide the detent pin through [for single station operation]"
Some excerpts from email exchange with John Lee regarding several topics not specific to single station operation (Shed quite a bit of light on Lee Precision as a global company surpassing all other competitors in volume):
John Lee
Staff - 02/26/2024 1:15 pm
Thanks for the kind words on our product line. I have been at Lee Precision for 52 years and have been President for the past 32 years. Notice I said been, not worked, I never felt it work, just enjoyed producing the most economical hand tools in the world. Along the way we became the world's largest in volume.
... We have never made products by using inferior materials rather our low prices come from superior designs. For example in 1985 I received a patent for a "stress limited reloading press". This idea allowed us to produce a reloading press made from a low cost aluminum die casting. The difference was we placed a stop on the linkage to prevent the press from toggling over center. You see when a toggle link reaches top dead center the mechanical advantage goes to infinity. The amount of force limited by the weakest link. Other manufactures were caught in an endless loop, they would make a beefier frame then the connecting links would break, then they make stronger connecting links then the pivot pins would break and so on.
... I believe that making things unbreakable, lowest part count and no user adjustments possible or necessary will keep us ahead of the pack.
As to durability I'll put the Six Pack up against any progressive. I doubt anyone could wear one out in a lifetime.
Sincerely,
John Lee, President
Lee Precision, Inc.
< And back to single station operation issue >
(Most recent email) Calvin - "If you wouldn't mind, please let me know if you feel single stage operation is sufficient without the use of any 'lock'."
Single station resizing impression - I was planning to do press operations today but due to single station operation issue, never even got to resize any brass. So I removed the index rod and pop in #19 shell holder for 9mm. 9mm resizing die was borrowed from SPP. I grabbed several different headstamp brass that have been deprimed and wet tumbled but not resized. (Husky height adjustable bench is setup for comfortable sit down reloading)
Even with squeaky clean brass without lubrication, resizing effort was "SOLID". No play or any movement of linkage ... Just smooth up and down movement of ram with ergo roller handle. Brought me memories of C-H 205 single stage press I used for resizing military .308 cases but with less effort and more comfortable ergo handle as my wrist stayed in same position throughout the resizing motion.
Next, I grab once fired factory new Remington .223 brass shot in my .223 Wylde AR that have been deprimed and wet tumbled but not resized. I usually use
Bag Balm as case lube but since Lee die set came with a packet of resizing lubricant, decided to use it. And just like resizing 9mm brass, solid and smooth up and down movement of ram with no drama ... .223 brass resized.
And during the entire time of single station resizing of 9mm and .223 brass, no movement of tool carrier/turret and detent pin consistently went through the index hole without issue.
This is one SOLID turret press that feels like a single stage press. It will definitely be designated for .223 reloading and I will designate SPP for pistol cartridges due to higher volume reloading.
Summary/Thought for the day - Since the detent pin has cone shaped tip and bottom of tool carrier/turret index holes are also cone shaped, when operating with index rod removed, even if tool carrier/turret rotates slightly, cone shaped opening with cone shaped tip will help the detent pin align with the top opening by rotating the tool carrier automatically as ram/detent pin rise. So if the documentation/instructions never mentioned removing the detent pin to lock the tool carrier/turret from the top, single station issue of today would have never been an issue.
I will summarize our emails of today and recommend that documentation be changed to remove the part about unscrewing detent pin and to use the press in single stage (single station per Lee) mode relying on tip of detent pin guided by cone shaped bottom opening of the index holes.
I will move onto setting up dies and press operations starting tomorrow but I sure have a good feeling about this press!
P.S. - Calvin, in case you are wondering why there were some long pauses between emails, I was also multi-tasking for wife cooking and baking today. (Homemade spaghetti with meat sauce/deviled eggs for lunch and dozen milk butter rolls for Philly Cheese sliders and 4 dozen chocolate chip/walnut cookies for dinner)