SC passes Constitutional Carry

21 to go........

CONGRATULATIONS SC!! low country will be my next home

Seattle Washington just did too!

We gotta make it out goal to do this next door in my state

Great news! The article says there are now 29 states with Constitutional open carry. I thought there were a couple more than that. Perhaps some of those are concealed Constitutional carry. I'm too tired to look at the moment.

Way to go, South Carolina!

Wish it would happen in my state, but unfortunately, our governor hates the Constitution.

Shanvanvocht said:

You're gonna have to make some changes in Raleigh.

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Appalachiannative said:

We gotta make it out goal to do this next door in my state

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North Caroline! You next! my home State!

I’m from Rockingham

Beck said:

I thought there were a couple more than that. Perhaps some of those are concealed Constitutional carry. I'm too tired to look at the moment.

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Yeah, the sweep of the sea change gives that impression. It's also easy to blur the line between Shall-Issue States and Permitless-carry. there's around 35-plus of the former, so, having 29 of the latter is significant.

In fairness, most of the Permitless Carry states are for concealed rather than Open. Open carry being yet another patchwork quilt of legal or not.
And the various States being all over the place on that.

Now, despite all those States having chosen to enact either of those, neither have reached to 50% of the US population (which is locked into the statistic of 50% of the US population living in by 35 of the ±3200 US Counties).

Isn’t it interesting that folks celebrate when their government “allows” them to exercise their constitutional rights.

Yeah, I was thinking of "Constitutional carry" concealed or open. At any rate, states are moving in the right direction adopting permitless carry. It must be giving the antis fits.

The real benefit of this development is that now out-of-state visitors to South Carolina can carry without potential legal penalty. South Carolina did not honor many (if any) carry licenses and permits from other states. I never had a burning desire to go there, but now I can if the need arises.

rhino465 said:

The real benefit of this development is that now out-of-state visitors to South Carolina can carry without potential legal penalty. South Carolina did not honor many (if any) carry licenses and permits from other states. I never had a burning desire to go there, but now I can if the need arises.

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I love SC, everything about it. But they don’t honor my WA CPP. Now I can go there and be cool. Most places are very safe in SC, parts of MB, Charleston, Savanna can be warm

Being horse people SC is now on the list for wife to go there to compete etc. Our CCW are now honored.

I need to read the new law but it it’s passing is giving lots of people heartburn. The part about removing training and allowing 18 year olds to carry is the most common topic. They appear to have removed the requirement to open carry in a Class 2 retention holster. That was also a point of contention for some people.

Ive got folks down there, they've often asked me if i would consider moving down there but gun laws were one of the considerations. Maybe I'll retire down there, it's nice to know permitless carry has passed down there anyways. When I went down to visit I kept the gun in the trunk. Annoying.

Beck said:

Great news! The article says there are now 29 states with Constitutional open carry. I thought there were a couple more than that. Perhaps some of those are concealed Constitutional carry. I'm too tired to look at the moment.

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OK, so in PA you can open carry without a permit - but to conceal a firearm on your person or in your car you need a permit. I think the term "constitutional carry" has to do with the right to carry a handgun any way you want to, but especially concealed or in your transport, without a permit. Or to put it more simply, constitutional carry does not equal with open carry.

Here is the current SLED guidelines on the new law.

Awesome! SC for whatever reason did not honor a PA carry license before, so I considered it off limits. Now, I can actually travel there and not have my 2A rights violated.

I used to travel to and through South Carolina at least once a month. They have been on and off for reciprocity with FL. Glad to know I don't have to check every time I go there.

jeepnik said:

Isn’t it interesting that folks celebrate when their government “allows” them to exercise their constitutional rights.

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Not quite.

What we're celebrating is the culmination of nearly 6 decades of citizen push-back AGAINST government infractions against the RKBA.

The politicians that pushed these things through didn't do this without a lot of work from citizens to get the right politicians in a position to do this.

And the battle isn't over, and will never be over.

OK...as a SC resident, I'd like to caution people here.

First of all, the usual disclaimer: I ain't not no attorney. My opinion is just that...MINE. Genuine legal advice should come at the behest of emptying your own wallet into the coffers of an attorney of your own.


Aspects of this law bother me because, contrary to what's been put out via the media outlets, there are some muddy waters. And it's not helping that the state's sites on the applicable statutes have not actually been updated with the new law, so we have to bounce back and forth between H3594 and the state statutes to see where and how this all fits in.

I'm NOT comfortable with a blanket statement that SC is legal for residents of ALL other states to carry without a permit and I'll get to that below.


Let's tackle the CWP: SC STILL DOES NOT ACCEPT ALL CARRY PERMITS FROM ALL STATES. If you have a carry permit from a state that SC does not have reciprocity with, then IT IS NOT VALID IN SC.

This is regardless of whether or not such people may be able to carry under the permitless law. SLED is charged with maintaining this list of states with whom SC has reciprocity.


Here's where the "permitless carry" comes from with respect to H3594:

(O)(1) A permit issued pursuant to this article is not required for a person:

(a) carrying a self-defense device generally considered to be nonlethal including the substance commonly referred to as "pepper gas"; or

(b) carrying a concealable weapon in a manner not prohibited by law.

(2) The availability of a permit to carry a concealable weapon under this section must not be construed to prohibit the permitless transport or carrying of a firearm in a vehicle or on or about one's person, whether openly or concealed, loaded or unloaded, in a manner not prohibited by law.

The above is a change to SC 23-21-215 "Issuance of Permits" and this is important.

SC 23-31-210 "Definitions" contains the following definitions of "resident":

As used in this article:

(1) "Resident" means an individual who is present in South Carolina with the intention of making a permanent home in South Carolina or military personnel on permanent change of station orders.


WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

Because "resident" has meaning with respect to the content and interpretation of everything that comes under Title 23, Chapter 21 of SC law.


Here's what sub paragraph (O) of 23-31-215 said before H3594 was passed:

(O) A permit issued pursuant to this article is not required for a person:

(1) specified in Section 16-23-20, items (1) through (5) and items (7) through (11);

(2) carrying a self-defense device generally considered to be nonlethal including the substance commonly referred to as "pepper gas"; or

(3) carrying a concealable weapon in a manner not prohibited by law.


NOTE: That sub-paragraph was applicable to SC RESIDENTS, NOT RESIDENTS OF ANY OTHER STATE. There were no wording changes to Title 32, Chapter 21 in H3594 which clearly changed that.


I said in my opening that I'm not an attorney. But I am an engineer and I do understand enough of the law to know that what any given statute means isn't to be interpreted simply by the wording of a given portion of a statute: it's to be fully understood in the full context of the entire statute itself (among other legal interpretations). Much like engineering manuals and drawings, a part is understood as part of the whole.


THAT SAID:

Though I'm not comfortable with saying permitless carry applies to ALL people in SC regardless of state residency, I could be wrong. On the one hand, the part about permitless carry falls under Title 23, Chapter 31 which talks about "residents" in the parent paragraphs. This carries meaning/weight.

On the other hand, the fact that it doesn't say "residents" in that exact sub paragraph COULD be an important factor in saying its applicable to everybody, regardless of residency. However, context MIGHT say otherwise. Certainly that paragraph didn't specifically reference "residents" BEFORE it was modified by H3594.


This is why I'm not comfortable with saying permitless applies to everybody regardless of state residency. And I'm darn sure NOT going to go by whatever people say in the media because these people screw things up all the time out of poor journalism, bias, and just plain not enough time to comprehensively cover everything in the first place. Lord knows they screws up aspects of SC's 2021 change in carry laws with inaccuracies and incompleteness.

Oh, yeah...

Permitless carry does not allow all the things that an actual permit allows. This is per federal law under the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990.

18USC922 (q) (2) (B):

(B)Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firarm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;


Also, having a CWP means the NICS check doesn't have to be done if you are purchasing a firearm because this has already been done as part of the CWP process.