Not quite the same argument. It's like saying "men run faster than women" based on a race where 1 woman ran against 100 men and came in second. Sure, that one man ran faster than that one woman, but in general?
That is a good point. From 1 point, we can't conclude very much, in either the caliber choice or the race. However, with the addition of the data from the calibers-l list, the similarity in effects is reinforced.
But you're saying that in general, 9mm is better than 357SIG, and your data just doesn't hold up to that.
This is absolutely not what I am claiming. Several have made claims about 357SIG's performance, and my sole purpose in this thread from my first post on has been to question those claims. I'd shut up already if somebody posted a compilation of good reliable data backed by science which showed 357SIG was clearly superior to the other calibers as claimed. Technically, I am not promoting a thesis in this thread, just acting as a critic of claims made by others.
To be clear, in case anyone has not yet got it:
I am not claiming 9x19 is superior to 357SIG. I am replying that the data available seems to show that 357SIG is not superior to 9x19, contrary to what others have posted. (For the logic impaired, that does not imply 9x19 is better.) In particular, I have consistently said that 357SIG performance is essentially identical to 9x19 performance with good bullets.
Flaw number 2 is the estimated wound volume.
Your criticisms here are correct. You'll notice that I actually discussed the limitations of the "wound volume metric" on the original web page, and the original discussion on TFL, especially in regard to expansion rate during penetration.
But it's the best we've got. Penetration good, expansion good, penetration and expansion good.
I would like to see any concrete data you have with regard to 357SIG expanding sooner than 9x19, however.
Finally, while this isn't directly part of your argument, the "best bang for the buck" rating you have on your website is flawed. It handycaps the higher energy calibers for having more recoil, when in fact it is that higher energy that contributes to higher wound volumes. Note that the best by far calibers based on wound volume per recoil are the .380 ACP and .38 special loads, all of which fail the FBI's 12" minimum penetration requirement.
Yes, you are totally correct here, and that's why I don't suggest the use of the vol/re metric as a primary criteria. It may be useful as a sort criteria once you have loads that perform to a certain level (eg, maybe take the best 3 in 9, 357, 40, and 45 in a similar weight pistol), but that's it.
coylh,
I'd still like to know what threshold the .357 SIG would have to pass to make it worthwhile in your view. In measurable terms, how much better does it have to be?
I'm trying to avoid that since I'm not here to promote a cartridge or say a certain choice is better for person X. By sticking to objective data, I often find a more useful discussion can be had, since it avoids the subjective factors that are different for every person--like how much recoil they can shoot well with, or what kind of CCW-able size is acceptible, or whatever. We can argue about data and science rationally and actually get something out of it, while arguing about preferences and subjective factors is largely pointless.
To answer your question in more objective terms, I think that if 357SIG could demonstrate the kind of "class" differentiation above 9x19 in the data, like you see with 45, 40, and 9x19, then it would be objectively a better terminal performer. (By the class differentiation, I mean if you look at the sorted results by any of the volume metrics, there are a lot of 45's at the top, then a band of 40's, then a band of 9's, with some exceptional and poor loads interspersed up and down.)
It turns out I have some limited 'net connectivity at my hotel, so I'm not totally cut off.
best
Zak
No doubt followed closely by the.44Baretta which will give ballistics equal to a .44 Mag in an autoloader.
New calibers, marginal improvements, better bore cleaners, etc. Somebody somewhere needs to justify a new pistol and this helps. 
