How does the .357Sig compare to the .40S&W?

[Alan Fud]

I've been reading past threads. Some say that the .357Sig has a snappier kick than the .40S&W while others say that it has less recoil and thus allows for quicker follow-up shots.

Some say that the .357Sig really has nothing to offer that can not be found in a +P 9mm. Others claim that it has better stopping power than the .45ACP.

I've got a few 229's in .40S&W and am wondering if switching to a .357Sig would be a wise decision?

Comments? Recommendations?

 

[mete]

Keep the .40. There isn't any difference in on the street performance of the 357sig. 40S&W and 45 acp. 40 ammo is easier to find.

 

[MidnightRambler]

post deleted

 

[mljdeckard]

I find the .357 sig concept to be very compelling, but I'm so cautious, I'll wait until it has ten years of widespread street experience documented before I would switch over my 1911 or a .40 glock.

In that, the Sig option with both barrels is probably not a bad idea at all.

 

[gudel]

what's the difference? 40 is easier to find

 

[Cousin Mike]

My Sig Pro is a .357Sig/.40S&W, and I would have to say that to me, the .357Sig definitely feels snappier, and just has more kick all around. Although both to me seem to have a decent amount more felt recoil than my .45's or 9mm,357 Sig is also a hell of a lot louder and flashes more than .40 IMO. Both can make quick, accurate follow-up shots... with practice! Your first time firing one, unless you have lots of experience with heavy recoil, you probably won't be comfortable shooting rapidly. At 6'1, 250lbs., it was quite a handful for me the first time I shot it.

For whatever it's worth, I love the .357Sig round, and I would feel just as comfortable with it in a SD application as I would a .40 or .45 - it's said to have the exact same street performance (one-shot stop percentages) as .357 Magnum. That's nothing to sneeze at. And it's one HELL of a fun round to shoot.

Did I NEED a .357Sig? No, I already had 3 pistols that would do any job I asked of them. I had been reading about it, became fascinated with the round, decided I wanted one, and had the money to buy it. What I WILL say, is that I will definitely be buying other pistols chambered in .357 Sig. If, for nothing else, for the fun factor.

The ONLY downside to .357Sig, IMHO, is the price of ammunition.

 

[Cosmoline]

I've never understood the .357 Sig. It replicates light, hi-vel .357 Mag. loads that take away the best aspects of that cartridge.

 

[Cousin Mike]

It replicates light, hi-vel .357 Mag. loads that take away the best aspects of that cartridge.

If you're going to North Dakota to hunt Elk or something, you probably don't want to use your Sig P229. But then again, I'm sure Mr. Alan Fud already knew that. In a human target, .357 Sig will do what it should. A 124gr. JHP traveling 1500+ fps is okay by me.

I've got a few 229's in .40S&W and am wondering if switching to a .357Sig would be a wise decision?

Comments? Recommendations?

This was the sentence I focused on most. If you've already got a few models in .40S&W, what have you got to lose by trying a new cartridge? All you need is a barrel. One thing I've noticed in these discussions, lots of people are skeptical about the .357Sig. Most people who actually own a .357Sig pistol seem to really love their weapons. Just an observation. Good luck, and happy shooting whatever you choose.

 

[Ironballs]

Got a glock 35 (comes in .40S&W), and a conversion bbl to make it shoot .357sig and 9mm.

Going back and forth, the .357sig is way snappier, with much more muzzle blast. Its very shootable, more fun it you are after that bigger bang,... it is super accurate, but i tire of shooting it faster (less rounds) than with the .40

I love the .40 for just about everything... (9mm is funn too, but boreing if shooting right after the .40)

Just did 125 rounds this morning with the kkm 9mm conversion bbl... still no failures of any kind, with 9mm, 40, or 357sig, which is phenominal considering two of those are using conv. barrels and no other mods/changes...

 

[DonGlock26]

I have a P229 with both barrels. The main difference is that the .357 cycles the slide faster, but the .40 causes more muzzle flip and torquing in the hand. To me the faster the cycle, the faster I get back on target. The .40 causes me to have to regrip my P229 after a few quick shots. The .357 doesn't do that. The .357 Sig is VERY accurate. I once hit the 10 number on a NRA 25yrd pistol target at 25yrds on my first freehand shot.

.357 Sig has been used by LEO agencies for a decade. No one has dropped it for non-performance. I'd give .357 Sig an edge in penetration,also. I use 125gr. Golddots for a carry load. It is nice to have two excellent calibers for the same pistol. Cheap practice ammo is availible on line at Georgia arms.




Don

 

[Cosmoline]

In a human target, .357 Sig will do what it should. A 124gr. JHP traveling 1500+ fps is okay by me.

It isn't by me. I know of at least one instance where a large man shot with a .357 Sig. in a brothel in Fairbanks survived with only a minor wound. The shot was dead center, but the bullet, lacking sufficient mass, got lost in his chest and belly fat and never hit pay dirt. They simply don't have a high enough sectional density or mass for shooting a large person. No way would I trust one. The cartridge is based on a stupid idea. Stick with the .40 or even a 9x19.

 

[DonGlock26]

All handgun rounds fail. I seriously doubt the hit was dead center.


http://crimefilenews.blogspot.com/2006/03/40-caliber-nightmare-is-caught-on-tape.html

 

[Cosmoline]

No question about that, but I'd like to know what weight of .40's the LEO's were using. Besides, with the .40 you at least have the option of going with heavier 165's or 180's which will give you a better chance of a through-and-through wound with a large exit hole to maximize shock (please don't bring up the "overpenetration" nonsense). With the .357 Sig. you have very little flexibility.

I seriously doubt the hit was dead center.

It was. I saw the photos. It expanded nicely and promptly took a turn and raced through the fat, doing a semi-circle before exiting on the back side. It took the course of least resistance and hit nothing vital whatsoever. When you lower the SD on a projectile too much, you increase the chance that the bullet will fail to penetrate even at high velocity.

 

[Cousin Mike]

My BS meter is going off...

Someone's really reaching to make a point.

I personally listen to owners rather than nay-sayers. Especially nay-sayers who base such strong opinions on heresay. Owners have spoken here, and I doubt you'll find an owner who shares Cosmoline's opinion. Or anyone, for that matter, who bases their opinions of the cartridges performance on fact rather than bar stories, gun store tales, or just some wierd, unjustifiable bias.

With the .357 Sig. you have very little flexibility.

Hornady And Federal also make 147gr. and 150gr. loads for the .357 Sig round. Triton makes them as light as 115gr. - I carry 125gr. Winchester Rangers. But everyone knows they only penetrate 2" and shrink instead of expand coming out of my stupid .357Sig

It was. I saw the photos. It expanded nicely and promptly took a turn and raced through the fat, doing a semi-circle before exiting on the back side. It took the course of least resistance and hit nothing vital whatsoever.

You saw all that in a photo? Impressive...

 

[Will Learn]

Some ballistic information on both the rounds in question would be a good idea. Anyone wanna do some grunt work?

 

[Cousin Mike]

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/357.defend.htm

Somewhat biased in favor of the .357Sig round, but has some very interesting numbers to look at, and links to other sites where you can find info on both rounds.

 

[Cosmoline]

I doubt you'll find an owner who shares Cosmoline's opinion. Or anyone, for that matter, who bases their opinions of the cartridges performance on fact rather than bar stories, gun store tales, or just some wierd, unjustifiable bias.

The info comes from a civil suit. I've been here and on TFL since the very early days, and I'm not in the habit of making things up. But if you want to plug your ears and hum feel free. I agree you will have a hard time finding an owner who agrees with me. SINCE PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH ME WILL NOT BUY A .357 SIG! Like the light, high-vel .357 Mag cartridges it's based on, the standard bullets are too light to be reliable. No sane person would use such loads against a 300 lb. black bear or feral pig, so why use them against a 300 lb. Alaskan?

For the record, I'm not entirely happy with standard 9x19 or .40 S&W loadings either. A 10mm would make me happier.

 

[DonGlock26]

No question about that, but I'd like to know what weight of .40's the LEO's were using. Besides, with the .40 you at least have the option of going with heavier 165's or 180's which will give you a better chance of a through-and-through wound with a large exit hole to maximize shock (please don't bring up the "overpenetration" nonsense). With the .357 Sig. you have very little flexibility.


Quote:
I seriously doubt the hit was dead center.


It was. I saw the photos. It expanded nicely and promptly took a turn and raced through the fat, doing a semi-circle before exiting on the back side. It took the course of least resistance and hit nothing vital whatsoever. When you lower the SD on a projectile too much, you increase the chance that the bullet will fail to penetrate even at high velocity. - Cosmoline






Can you tell us what .357 Sig load was used? I wouldn't carry a non-bonded .357 Sig, myself. The DT .357 147gr Golddot should perform in the manner you wish. I have considered switching from the Speer 125gr GD to that load.

 

[RNB65]

It makes more noise and has way more muzzle blast than the .40.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Cosmoline...

The info comes from a civil suit. I've been here and on TFL since the very early days, and I'm not in the habit of making things up.

Well, unfortunately, our IQ's don't seem to go up with our number of posts in a forum. You and I have had some involved interactions in the Legal and Political forum, but as much as I disagree with some things you say, I have to give credit where credit is due. You don't strike me as a liar. At the same time, I have to say in all honesty, I've never thought you to sound silly, until today. Opinionated? Sure, but some of the points you're trying to make are a little contradicting. You seem to have unusally strong opinions about a round you don't own a pistol chambered for (and I feel safe assuming you've never fired one either). Skepticism is one thing, everyone is skeptical of certain rounds for their own personal reasons. You use words like "stupid," which doesn't necessarily add to the credibility of the user.

Make me understand this. You advocate the use of 9x19mm ammunition (which is commonly found in 115-124gr weights), and at the same time turn your nose up at the idea of a bullet of the same weight (or considerably heavier) that moves up to 500fps faster? Please share the logic in this with me, as I honestly wish to try and see things from your point of view. I'm not trying to be sarcastic.

No sane person would use such loads against a 300 lb. black bear or feral pig, so why use them against a 300 lb. Alaskan?

The psychological effects of being shot are well documented. Of course, we don't rely on psychological effects in training to stop an attacker, but if the thought of being shot, the pain, fear of death or some other psychological reaction to being shot makes the bad guy stop, I'll take that result.

The answer to your question, in short? Because hogs and bears don't know they're supposed to fall down and cry when they get shot. People do. We all know that.

As my boss, a brilliant carpenter I truly admire, often says... "Why ain't important boy, that's just the way it is."

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Riddle me this: Wot's the reason for .357 Sig when we already have 9X23?

9X23 fits more rounds in the magazine
9X23 factory ammo performs better than .357 Sig

For some reason my local grocery store in the Ozarks quit stocking 9X23. They've never stocked .357 Sig, though.

 

[Will Learn]

I didn't know we were on a elementary school playground Mike. Your whole first paragraph is devoted to insulting Cosmoline, why don't you use your energy voicing your opinion on the subject rather than attacking someone's character?

 

[Cosmoline]

I would rather use a heavy loaded 9x19 than a 125 grain .357 Sig. (or Mag.) because the heavy 9x19 is MUCH easier to fire rapidly and control. In addition, the heavier and higher SD of the bullet give you more reliable penetration. I've found .357 Sigs to be highly nasty in both recoil and f&b. Others may like them, but if I'm going to have a cartridge with that much noise and pressure I'd rather have a 10mm. Above all, I find the theory behind the cartridge unsound because it assumes the light, hi-vel .357 Mags are the ultimate self defense cartridge in that chambering. I disagree, for reasons which I've gone into at great length in other threads.

As far as the psychological impact, it's true that may be enough. Indeed in the case I mention the big guy passed out and dropped like a bag of spuds. He was sure he was done for. But you can't *RELY* on that. You may be dealing with someone who's too far gone to notice or care.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Will, I did not consider myself to be attacking Cosmoline in that paragraph, and apparently neither does she. She answered my question. My comment about IQ's was not directed towards her - as you spend time around gun forums, this is just accepted as fact. Apparently, you've never argued with her either. She's very capable of defending herself.

Cosmoline, as often happens after a few posts back and forth, I find myself agreeing with you and understanding your logic. The .357Sig is definitely a handful, and some people I've taken to shoot it have found it overwhelming and intimidating. Those who give it a second try, however, seem to find it a lot less sensational the second time around, myself included. Third time at the range, I was able to rapid-fire with accuracy. Something I never thought possible after shooting it the first time.

I would also agree that the .357Sig is not the ultimate in SD applications, no more than any other pistol round is. For certain applications, I would much rather have a good ol' .45 handy. If I have to shoot through glass, car doors or other objects, I'd prefer my .357Sig to my 9x19mm, as it seems to have a noticeably better performance under these circumstances according to things I've read.

As far as the psychological impact, it's true that may be enough. Indeed in the case I mention the big guy passed out and dropped like a bag of spuds. He was sure he was done for. But you can't *RELY* on that. You may be dealing with someone who's too far gone to notice or care.

+1 and Amen.

 

[AK103K]

Why was he only shot once, regardless of caliber? Did the one round stop the fight?


I tend to agree with Mike on the nay sayers vs owners. There seems to be a lot of people out there who dont like the 357SIG based on opinion. They also seem to be very vocal about their opinions too. Still havent seen much real fact to back up their complaints though. One thing I have noticed is, when you talk to people who actually own one, or carry one in the line of duty, you hear few if any complaints, and actually, mostly praises for the round, at least this has been my experience.

If you dont like the round, then dont carry it. There are plenty of other things out there, and you still get to carry what you want, whether or not "the experts" like it or dont.


One other thing I find interesting with the 357SIG vs .357MAG comparisons. I grew up in the age of the .357MAG, I've owned and carried a few,(and still do) and back when they were THE gun of choice, the round of choice for self defense was the 125 grain JHP loads . (Super Vels where the scheiße when they first appeared) It was always the round all others were compared to for stopping people. Now all of a sudden, in the modern age of the internet, and internet experts, this isnt the case, and its a horrible round. When did this happen? The 357SIG was developed to approximate the 357MAG in the 125 grain loading, which is pretty closely does. Its not trying to be the hunting round thats supposed to be all so much better in a .357MAG, at least according to all the experts.