NY Pistol Permit Hassle - fight the power, or not?

I am in the process of applying for my pistol permit here in NY state. It's taken a while to get all the stuff together, and I finally submitted my paperwork and got fingerprinted last week. I got a call this past Saturday from the police department saying that they can't process my application because my safety class took place outside of the county. Nowhere in the application process does it say that the safety course has to take place in your county of residence - it just says you have to take one. The course I took was at a reputable gun shop, it is an NRA-approved course, and it is billed as being the course to take to fulfill the pistol permit requirement in the county where it's located. I called them today and they still stand by that assessment of the course.

I talked to an employee at the county clerk's office, showed her my class certificate, and she said that she feels the class I took is valid, and should be allowed. She says she knows many of the officers who deal with the pistol permits and gave me her name and number so that I could tell them that she said she would approve of the course. She also said she felt that the judge (who must ultimately approve the permit) would feel it was a valid course.

I asked her if the police have the legal right to hold up my permit application because they don't like the course I took, even though everyone else seems like they're okay with it. She hedged, and wouldn't give a straight yes or no. I got her to agree, though, that until the police feel like I've met the requirements of the permit, the chief doesn't have to sign the form and send it on to the judge. So, yes, they can indefinitely delay it if they don't like something about my application.

So ... do I fight the power? Do I go speak with the officers, give them this woman's name, tell them her opinion, present my evidence, and ask that they reconsider? Or do I give up, wait several weeks for a course to be offered, and spend another four hours and $30 on a pistol course that I already took once? :banghead:

hnk45acp said:

Suck it up and take the course again. My experiences (NYC) tell me that the people that process these things are basically bureaucrats with a checklist. If your bonafides don't fulfill their "list" to the letter, they can hold up your permit. It sucks but your choice is to spend time fighting it or taking the course again. It's probably easier to do the latter.

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This is basically what the outcome is going to be. As the county clerk said without saying, even though it's acceptable to her and to the judge, there is one group of people who have the ability to hold up the permit if they aren't satisfied. I think it's a bunch of crap, but if I want my permit, I kind of have to dance to their tune. I'll take solace in the fact that if the Heller case comes out the way that everyone thinks it will, then New York's laws are going to be among the first which will be challenged. The pistol permit process here is very arbitrary in terms of who is granted what.

Whatsit said:

Heck, I took my (NRA) course outside of the state for my NYS permit - no questions asked in Steuben County.

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See, this is what really bugs me about the process - it's very inconsistent. I live near the border between Albany County and Schenectady County. The guys in the gun shop I go to tell me that people from Schenectady have a much better chance of getting an unrestricted permit than people from Albany, simply because of the attitude of the judges in those respective locales. Why should the whim of a judge have anything to do with your likelihood of getting a permit that has restrictions on it, or getting a permit at all?

mrreynolds said:

Unless the state has a list of approved instructors for their state I fail to see an issue.

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That's the thing that trips me out about this - there is NO reason why the class I took is inferior to a local class. It is an NRA-approved class, run by a qualified instructor, and which is appropriate for the pistol permit in Erie County. I don't get why the police here somehow think it isn't good enough. When the officer spoke to me on the phone, he never really gave a reason - he just said they require a local course.

As others have pointed out, though, the reason itself is immaterial. As long as they have a beef with my class, and they are telling me I need to take a local class, I have two options: #1 - Refuse to do it, and not get a permit. #2 - Do what they say, and have a chance at a permit. As stupid as it is, it really comes down to that, unless I can somehow convince them to accept it ... which seems unlikely.

archigos said:

zminer, what county are you dealing with?

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Albany county ... which, from your location, seems to be the same as where you got yours (unless you primarily reside somewhere else). Now I am even more annoyed, if someone else was able to use an out-of-county class. It seems kind of pointless to make a rule like this, and then enforce it only some of the time. (Note - I am not putting you down for getting your permit on an out-of-country pistol safety class. I'm glad you finally got it! Twelve months is a long time to wait. I am just annoyed that they won't give me the same courtesy.)

EDIT: Oops, I re-read my other posts and realize why the county situation is unclear. I used to live in Erie county (Buffalo area), and took my pistol permit course there before I moved, but didn't want to start the application process until I was settled in Albany county, because I knew it took so long to get through it and I didn't know the legality of applying in a county that I knew I was going to be leaving shortly. Also, as it turns out, I wasn't able to begin the process right away, because the information which comes with the pistol permit application states that the references you use must live in the Capital District, and you have to have known them for at least a year. So, because I didn't know anyone here, that meant I had to wait for at least a year to apply.)

And today I got word from one of the people I put in as a reference that she got the standard "do you recommend this person for a pistol permit?" letter from the police department in reference to my permit application!

I guess they could just be moving forward with the background investigation, on the theory that I will be submitting the new safety class paperwork soon. Considering the hassle they're giving me about the class, that would be oddly efficient of them.