bipod on pistol

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memphisjim

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Here is a question. A fore end pistol grip is illegal on a pistol.
Some (ruger charger) come with a bipod attached. If you hold the bipod as a pistol grip, did you just break the law?
 
It is a bi-pod, not a fore grip or pistol grip. It could be misused as a pistol/fore grip but an extended magazine could be misused the same way. And you can bet your last dollar that Ruger had a lawyer look into it before they were sold.

Have you seen the pistol/fore grip that has a retractable bi-pod in it?
 
Isn't the whole "forward grip on a pistol" thing kind of gray, anyway? I didn't think it was actually illegal. Isn't it a matter of ATF policy or somesuch, rather than an actual law?


Don't misunderstand me; I'm not advocating puting forward grip on a pistol. I know you can get in trouble for it. I'm just questioning whether the matter is as black-and-white as it's often portrayed. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
 
The way I understand it. A handgun is designed to be fired with one hand. Add a bi-pod and it's still one hand. Add a pistol/fore grip now it's two hands.

I am not going to be a test case. This has been done/answered in a thread not long ago with some usefull info. Try the search feature and I'm sure you can locate it.
 
I don't know for sure but isn't the ATF big on constructive possession?
 
JDoe,

How do you feel constructive possession would apply here? Usually that's limited to cases where someone owns a firearm and the parts to make it an illegal unregistered something or other.

I don't see that the fact that you could hold onto a bipod as if it was a vertical grip would be a case of constructive possession.

I can't argue that the ATF wouldn't say that it WAS a vertical grip simply because it was being used as one, but only that I don't think C.P. enters into it.

I also don't think the ATF likes losing precident-setting cases, either. They may not push this issue if they think that they can't win. Then again, as we've seen in Thompson Center vs. US, sometimes when they lose, they just declare that the decision doesn't apply beyond X,Y, or Z and proceed as before. So who knows?

-Sam
 
Constructive possession is a mess.

Own an AR15 rifle, and a pistol upper? I think they'd nail you give the chance.
They why not a gen3 Glock and a Vertical grip? Same deal, right?

Nevermind the awful crap they spun after the Thompson Case. Thats beyond law enforcment.
It's simply vindictive and outright hostile to people...

that own single shot firearms?...

Good thing there's no more cocaine, murder, child prostitution or corporate corruption.
Now the .gov can get to the heart of the problem; people that fall over themselves trying to comply with laws that have more grey areas than the lunar surface.
 
They why not a gen3 Glock and a Vertical grip? Same deal, right?
Click to expand...

That one might come down to: do you have another firearm set up to take the vert. grip? A rifle, specifically. Then there is no reason to inferr the constructive possession, as the owner has a "legitimate" arrangement for using the thing. This is akin to the old argument, "I have a shotgun, and I have a hacksaw...does that mean I own an unregistered Short Barreled Shotgun via. constructive possession?"

It seems too far out there to be a realistic concern. Now, if you own only pistols and that vertical grip, that would be a risky grey area.

Of course, all of this is appalling, not only as a violation of our enumerated rights under the Constitution, but to bare common sense. Prohibiting possession of objects -- or inappropriate assortments of objects, even -- instead of judging human beings by their actions is an affront to human dignity. IMHO, of course.

-Sam
 
And what is the difference (practical +/or legal) between a vertical foregrip and a horizontal forearm piece? other than 90 degrees of axis?
Browning made a silhouette model buckmark with a foregrip, also TC Contender, etc.???
 
"I have a shotgun, and I have a hacksaw...does that mean I own an unregistered Short Barreled Shotgun via. constructive possession?"
Click to expand...

Again...
I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of constructive possession...

Think of it as the fact that you are in possession of the guns in your safe, even though you are at work...

It has absolutely nothing to do with "construction".

Hope this helps.:)

p
 
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parker019.jpg
NOt sure how this could be considered a fore grip but when it comes to the BATF nothing would surprise me.
 
And what is the difference (practical +/or legal) between a vertical foregrip and a horizontal forearm piece? other than 90 degrees of axis?
Click to expand...

Technically, that's not a foregrip, but a barrel shroud.
 
for guidance im looking at best in car gun legal in tennessee where even with permit you cant carry a loaded rifle
the keltec plr16 looks hot
i have enough in 7.62 x 39
 
Um... A barrel shroud is a shoulder thing that goes up.

Whatever that is, it's clearly not a barrel shroud
 
for guidance im looking at best in car gun legal in tennessee where even with permit you cant carry a loaded rifle
the keltec plr16 looks hot
i have enough in 7.62 x 39
Click to expand...

Hmm... Can you carry loaded magazined separated form the rifle?
 
I thought you couldn't put a fore grip on a glock because it lacks a rifled barrel. A traditional rifled barrel was good to go.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/041006-vert_grip.htm

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.
Click to expand...
 
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I thought you couldn't put a fore grip on a glock because it lacks a rifled barrel. A traditional rifled barrel was good to go.
Click to expand...
Most modern barrels for handguns are rifled. I think (hope) you meant the length of a rifle barrel (16") vs lack of rifling = smoothbore
 
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