Who chooses an XD over others because of the grip safety

Can anyone here lay out a scenario where a grip safety would prevent an inattentive "glock style" ND just because of the grip safety

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Yes, I did in a post on the first page. Someone else did also, re-holstering. The very scenario where many LEO or CC's have had ND's with glocks in particular. Granted Glocks are the predominant carry choice for many Leo agencies so the numbers should be higher.

I find it amusing that one of the defining features of the mythical 1911 is so hated when it's applied to a polymer pistol.

Question: Would anyone carry a 1911 "cocked and unlocked" and then pin the grip safety on top of that? Because that's what an XD is without a GS. It is SOA just like a 1911, with no manual safety.

I can see the GS not being the reason to buy an XD but I cannot understand the "its extra, it'll break, it won't dis-engage" crowd. It's just isn't proven out empirically by the experience of those who do carry them.

Like I said, Black, reholstering isn't a valid arguement. Unless you reholster without gripping the gun.

ETA: Also, if you made an XD without a grip safety, you wouldn't have a 1911 with no manual safety. You would have a Glock or an M&P with no manual safety.

I don't buy it. The assertion that someone would pay attention to the grip safety while at the same time have their finger on or allow something else to press the trigger while holstering.

No the outcomes would be the exact same with a grip safety.

Functionally I can agree that I might have the equivalent of a glock or m&p, pull the trigger it goes bang. Glocks are not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled but I take your point.

I was an industrial safety engineer for some time and the notion that you can count on a human to do ANYTHING predictably, consistently, every time is just foolish. So can you still shoot yourself in the leg with an XD?, yep if you work at it long enough. Any layer of safety that is transparent, automatic and doesn't impede the function of the firearm is a good thing.

"Can anyone here lay out a scenario where a grip safety would prevent an inattentive "glock style" ND just because of the grip safety"


Here's one. Some of the guy's t-shirt got tucked into his holster and when he moved the t-shirt pulled the trigger on his Glock. User error due to the pressure of competition, but it does happen. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/145105-m-p-external-safety-add.html

DukeNukem said:

"Can anyone here lay out a scenario where a grip safety would prevent an inattentive "glock style" ND just because of the grip safety"


Here's one. Some of the guy's t-shirt got tucked into his holster and when he moved the t-shirt pulled the trigger on his Glock. User error due to the pressure of competition, but it does happen. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/145105-m-p-external-safety-add.html

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And you know for certain this user in question wouldn't have had a firm grip on the firearm thus deactivating the grip safety

My autoloaders in centerfire are a Ruger P90DC (45 acp) DA/SA, S&W M&P .40 compact with thumb safety and a 4.5 xdm in 9mm with the grip safety.

I just do not care for 'safe action' stuff where the trigger and holster is all that there is between a ND or AD for my situation.

My middle of the night fright gun is that Ruger P90. With that nasty, heavy DA first pull, I'm not going to accidentally dump a round reaching for it bedside. If things get to where I touch the first one off on purpose, the SA pull weight is going to make it easier to shoot accurately.

If I didn't have the P90, I'd likely rely on the m&p before the xdm for night time defense.

Now if I was a cop that was more likely to need a gun that would go off in a crises, a M&P w/o the safety or a Glock would be top of the list with the XDM in third place. In this case, needing it to go off when deployed would make the grip safety somewhat of a liabilty but not much. I passed on my P90 based on capacity.

Szumi

R.W.Dale said:

And you know for certain this user in question wouldn't have had a firm grip on the firearm thus deactivating the grip safety

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Post #6 in that thread sounds like he probably didn't even have his hand on the pistol. But I'll give you that I don't know for certain.

I can think of at least one DEA agent, (with dreadlocks & in a classroom) that I'll bet wished he'd had a grip safety and had practiced what post # 16 said.
Personally, I don't even think of the grip safety when deciding what to buy, carry, or shoot... But.. I bet "he" didn't either.

You guys just cannot grasp that someone who has their finger on the trigger when they shouldn't probably has the gun in their hand when they do.

Habits..habits..
A grip safety is just ONE more step to force our minds into safer habits, if we let it.

"The grip safety is a significant factor in my decision"

I won't carry a grip safety gun. I've seen folks in F-o-F training fail to get a perfect grip while attempting to defend themselves and they can't cause with the speeds required they missed the perfect grip.

R.W.Dale said:

Can anyone here lay out a scenario where a grip safety would prevent an inattentive "glock style" ND just because of the grip safety

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Re-Holstering
The clever person, realizing that their gun is equipped with a grip safety, will re-holster the gun by pressing it gently into the holster on the rear of the SLIDE, instead of just shoving it in the holster blindly.

Do I have to post pictures to explain this concept? I really don't want to do a bunch of awkward behind-the-hip photography.

-You have a gun in your hand that you no longer need in your hand, and would prefer to have a gun in your holster.
-You do an admin check on the gun, ensuring it has a round in the chamber and a full mag (or post defense, you at least know how emptied the mag is and might slap in a fresh one)
-You shift your grip to: non-trigger fingers on front of gripframe, trigger finger along frame, thumb on rear of slide (or for 1911 type, thumb holding hammer back)
-You reach back and gently place the gun in the holster

This procedure does not need to be performed in a rush, and minimizes the inherent risk associated with putting a gun in the holster blindly. I can't see my holster, and not just because of my affinity for pastries ... it's just behind my hip and under a shirt.

Skribs said:

Like I said, Black, reholstering isn't a valid arguement. Unless you reholster without gripping the gun.

ETA: Also, if you made an XD without a grip safety, you wouldn't have a 1911 with no manual safety. You would have a Glock or an M&P with no manual safety.

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R.W.Dale said:

dollars to doughnuts these same people railing for grip safety because "they won't hurt anything" are the same ones railing against internal locks in other threads

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A grip safety is a PASSIVE SAFETY DEVICE while an internal lock is a MANUAL DEVICE. And the problem with internal locks (and magazine interlocks) is that they get mandated by legislators ... the same legislators who don't know what a "barrel shroud" is.

matrem said:

I can think of at least one DEA agent, (with dreadlocks & in a classroom) that I'll bet wished he'd had a grip safety and had practiced what post # 16 said.

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I don't know if anything short of a blue dummy gun would have saved that clown. He just wasn't willing to pay 100% attention to the weapon in his hand, probably due to either stage fright or trying to "look cool" (or a combination of the two)

They added it because a trigger safety isn't much of a safety... If something gets in there and snags the trigger, chances are the safety will be pressed too, or when reholstering and people leave their finger on the trigger, again it won't do much.

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The trigger-face "safety" is more of a drop safety the way I see it, I surely don't think anything is going to invade the trigger guard and only pull on one portion of the trigger face

Question: Would any of you carry an XD in a pocket, ready to fire with one in the chamber? (A)
If you would carry an XD like this, would you do the same with a Glock or M&P? (B)

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(A) I'd rather not, but alone in a pocket ... sure, if it was the only practical way I would do so, with the gun ALONE in the pocket if at all possible.
(B) I'd MUCH rather carry a gun with additional passive safety features that way, a manual lever can be snaggy or get popped to the "less safe" position easily in a pocket

The clever person, realizing that their gun is equipped with a grip safety, will re-holster the gun by pressing it gently into the holster on the rear of the SLIDE, instead of just shoving it in the holster blindly.

Do I have to post pictures to explain this concept? I really don't want to do a bunch of awkward behind-the-hip photography.

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Here's the rub of the matter though. That clever person can get by just as well putting his attention into keeping his booger picker off the trigger an making sure nothing invades the trigger guard as you do with all the awkward two fingers holster dancing.

If the person is paying attention they're paying attention. If they're not the first thing to go is that trigger safety.


Like I said on an xd its pure placebo for the 1911 guys

Here's the rub of the matter though. That clever person can get by just as well putting his attention into keeping his booger picker off the trigger an making sure nothing invades the trigger guard as you do with all the awkward two fingers holster dancing.

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Exactly. Any person who takes the time to pixie-dance the XD into the holster without pressing the grip safety is also not going to be the person ND'ing a Glock or any other gun while reholstering. The guy would would shoot themselves in the leg are just going to shove the XD right into the holster just like they would any other gun (while having that little grip "safety" depressed), because that's what careless people do.

Basically, you can't really justify any safety device's presence by stating that it can work "if you're clever". If you're clever, you already don't need it.

The clever person, realizing that their gun is equipped with a grip safety, will re-holster the gun by pressing it gently into the holster on the rear of the SLIDE, instead of just shoving it in the holster blindly.

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Hopefully you've realized you're wasting your time pointing out your holstering technique? Some folks' minds are just made up and ain't no amount of 'splaining gonna make any difference.

For those in here with more of an open mind, you can see pix of 'proper' reholstering technique here (the last picture on the page).

Instead of as in the pix, I use the pad of my thumb on the rear of the slide. I find it's more tactile, and also helps firmly seat the gun in the holster as well as preventing it from possibly (unknowingly) coming out of battery and possibly causing a problem when the time comes that you need it.
Imagine that-a cure for three problems with one simple technique...

I holster my XDs, 1911s, and all my hammer fired guns using this technique.

Here's another one that a grip safety may have helped!
He was Mexican carrying a Glock (after the guys at the gun shop had warned him not to do so), and when he got up from the table, he reached to cinch up his pants and !

Then there's Plaxico...

So if your clever you don't need ANY safety devices?

An attentive, focused person doesn't have accidents. Period. Yet accidents happen everyday.

How many people come on here and discuss having an ND that was the result of a failed mechanical component. I'm sure it's happened, but not very often. 9 times out of 10 someone wasn't paying the proper attention. The most conscientious people in the world still have accidents.The whole "dance" of re-holstering an xd is not complicated nor does it take any longer than any other pistol. It's muscle memory, and simply provides a layer of protection that doesn't impede the function of the firearm in ANY way.

You can't fix stupid, I'll give ya that. If your dumb, life is hard and you will shoot yourself as some point, but plenty of people that have had an ND aren't dumb. They are human, and imperfect. To me the grip safety is a second chance when your having a bad moment, and I haven't seen any downside to having it.

Question: Would any of you carry an XD in a pocket, ready to fire with one in the chamber?
If you would carry an XD like this, would you do the same with a Glock or M&P?

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My pants pockets aren't big enough, but I have packed one (XD9sc)loosely into the fender bag of my ATV when riding. It doesn't have to be a finger to depress a trigger. I think its better for off-body carry. Another reason I'm more comfortable with a grip saftey.

See, I holster my XD by gripping the grip and keeping my finger off the trigger. I figure that's how you'd holster a Glock, so that's how I holster my XD.

I think its better for off-body carry. Another reason I'm more comfortable with a grip saftey.

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QFT

I've owned and sold both an XD45 Tacitical and XD9 Tactical. I liked having the grip safety, however, I have many other pistols that don't have the grip safety. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me either way. I know many find the idea of a grip safety anathema, but I don't think it's a bad thing to have. I also don't think it's necessary to have either.

BTW, the XD's were sold for other reasons. None of which had anything to do w/ the grip safety.

This is just a difference of opinion and preference, at this point. I doubt many people have made their glock vs Springfield choice based on safety features.

If you feel safer carrying a gun with 1 or 2 or several safety devices built in, go for it. I feel confident that my glock's safe action system is sufficient to save me from ad and nd, and beyond that it's my job to keep the trigger clear. Part of being a responsible carrier is practicing with your holster, and that includes drawing and reholstering. Finger off the trigger! With that said, I have shot XDs and never had the gun not fire because of the safety.

The grip safety bothers me more on a 1911. It clunks around when it's not depressed. And it also bothers me that it's part of the beavertail. Seems to me the XD design is way better. I consider it a desirable feature, but one that I can easily live without.

I have an XD and love it, I bought it used from a friend and being under 21, my choices are extremely limited so I had to take what I could get. I love it and the safety doesn't bother me at all, I don't how anyone could be bothered by it honestly. It played no factor in my decision and if they was a easy DIY way to pin it I would.

It played no factor in my decision and if they was a easy DIY way to pin it I would.

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Duct tape.