Springfield XD Grip Safety
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Fishman777
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I said yes...
When reading these posts, I am a little shocked to hear that people want to insist that this feature doesn't provide added safety. That is crazy...
If you grip the gun in such a way that the web of your hand doesn't depress the safety, the gun can't fire. Ever. How does that not make the gun safer? When you grip the gun to shoot it, the safety automatically depresses. People say that safety is between your ears. Okay, so I suppose you never make mistakes? Even when distracted? That is BS. If you keep your finger off of the trigger, but something snags the trigger, most other polymer pistols will fire. XDs are safer than most other polymer pistols.
People make mistakes, especially under stress. Having that extra grip safety will not interfere with anything. All it does is provide an extra level of safety. I prefer the design features of the M&Ps, but I recognize that XDs are safer.
By the way, what do the dimensions of the Glock have to do with the safety of the XD?
When reading these posts, I am a little shocked to hear that people want to insist that this feature doesn't provide added safety. That is crazy...
If you grip the gun in such a way that the web of your hand doesn't depress the safety, the gun can't fire. Ever. How does that not make the gun safer? When you grip the gun to shoot it, the safety automatically depresses. People say that safety is between your ears. Okay, so I suppose you never make mistakes? Even when distracted? That is BS. If you keep your finger off of the trigger, but something snags the trigger, most other polymer pistols will fire. XDs are safer than most other polymer pistols.
People make mistakes, especially under stress. Having that extra grip safety will not interfere with anything. All it does is provide an extra level of safety. I prefer the design features of the M&Ps, but I recognize that XDs are safer.
By the way, what do the dimensions of the Glock have to do with the safety of the XD?
possum
Member
i do not think it makes it any safer, with any normal hold on the grip the saftey will be disengaged, there has never been a time when i was holding my xd in a realistic manner that made the safety not disengage. i have lots of rounds and many training courses under my belt with the xd, never had an issue.
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"there has never been a time when i was holding my xd in a realistic manner that made the safety not disengage. i have lots of rounds and many training courses under my belt with the xd, never had an issue."
Have done any close contact training? If you have, did you try seeing how you would handle a situation where the XD pushed into something (or someone) and the slide gets pushed out of battery?
"there has never been a time when i was holding my xd in a realistic manner that made the safety not disengage. i have lots of rounds and many training courses under my belt with the xd, never had an issue."
Have done any close contact training? If you have, did you try seeing how you would handle a situation where the XD pushed into something (or someone) and the slide gets pushed out of battery?
possum
Member
yes i have, in many courses and keeping with the context of ccw/ personal defense with the handgun, close contact/ retention is trained alot. at advanced fighting pistol we used a punching bag to repicate pushing the muzzle into the body, it comming out of battery and how to use the round that was chambered. we also learned how to do hammer blows, as well as ridge line strike, and an assortment of other close contact tactics and skills.
REAPER4206969
Member
He intentionally pressed the trigger. "This is an unloaded gun here..."possum
Member
yes press down with as much weight as you can on the back of the slide with your weak hand palm, which puts the gun back in battery and then fire.
While technically the XD is single action and the Glock and S&W are DAO, they are in reality all the same. It takes about the same amount of trigger pressure and movement to fire any of them. While internally they operate differently, they are essentially all single action that require a small amount of take up. After that they take about 6 lbs of pressure to fire.
Any of them are perfectly safe to use as long as they are kept in a secure holster and basic safety rules are used after removing them from the holster. I still think the grip safety offers nothing on the XD or the 1911 for that matter. On either type, in almost any situation where the gun could AD you would have your hand in a position to depress the grip safety anyway.
Any of them are perfectly safe to use as long as they are kept in a secure holster and basic safety rules are used after removing them from the holster. I still think the grip safety offers nothing on the XD or the 1911 for that matter. On either type, in almost any situation where the gun could AD you would have your hand in a position to depress the grip safety anyway.
Fishman777
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"...if safety rules are used..."
Yes, if a gun is in a proper holster, it is safe, even if it has a light, competition trigger. If a person, under ideal conditions, uses proper safety "protocols" with the gun, any gun is safe. That is not the argument here. Additional safeties, that prevent the gun from firing, help to take care of situations that you might not see coming.
The issue with negligent discharges is that people aren't perfect. If distracted, or if wearing certain types of clothes, a gun can discharge if the trigger snags. A few years ago, I read about a cop that had a negligent discharge because the drawstring on his windbreaker snagged the trigger on his gun when he holstered it. No frame safety, no grip safety. He had his finger off his trigger, but he didn't see or feel the draw string. He shot himself.
An activated frame-mounted safety or a grip safety would have prevented this. Sorry. Unless you are a cop, you are more likely to shoot yourself with your own gun than being shot be someone else. Any gun with a frame mounted safety that is engaged, or a grip safety that is not enaged will always be safer to handle than one that does not have these added safeties. If the gun can't go bang when the safety is on, the gun would be safer to handle than one that doesn't have a safety. Come on. This is not that hard...
This isn't about your superior training or discipline. This is a matter of an instrument being safer to handle. Heck, any gun with a hammer is safer to handle than a glock or an M&P. All you have to do is to apply pressure to the hammer with your thumb when you holster the weapon.
Yes, if a gun is in a proper holster, it is safe, even if it has a light, competition trigger. If a person, under ideal conditions, uses proper safety "protocols" with the gun, any gun is safe. That is not the argument here. Additional safeties, that prevent the gun from firing, help to take care of situations that you might not see coming.
The issue with negligent discharges is that people aren't perfect. If distracted, or if wearing certain types of clothes, a gun can discharge if the trigger snags. A few years ago, I read about a cop that had a negligent discharge because the drawstring on his windbreaker snagged the trigger on his gun when he holstered it. No frame safety, no grip safety. He had his finger off his trigger, but he didn't see or feel the draw string. He shot himself.
An activated frame-mounted safety or a grip safety would have prevented this. Sorry. Unless you are a cop, you are more likely to shoot yourself with your own gun than being shot be someone else. Any gun with a frame mounted safety that is engaged, or a grip safety that is not enaged will always be safer to handle than one that does not have these added safeties. If the gun can't go bang when the safety is on, the gun would be safer to handle than one that doesn't have a safety. Come on. This is not that hard...
This isn't about your superior training or discipline. This is a matter of an instrument being safer to handle. Heck, any gun with a hammer is safer to handle than a glock or an M&P. All you have to do is to apply pressure to the hammer with your thumb when you holster the weapon.
REAPER4206969
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SCBradley
Member
Yeah. Situations like shooting someone under stress and forgetting to disengage your extraneous marketing gimmicks.
Been reading the Brady website?
Yes. Yes it is.
Gungnir
Member
I didn't vote. I can't say I've noticed on my XDm.
The grip safety is totally intuitive it's not like I have to do anything to deactivate the safety just hold the gun naturally, it's actually more like an interlock than a specific safety.
The grip safety is totally intuitive it's not like I have to do anything to deactivate the safety just hold the gun naturally, it's actually more like an interlock than a specific safety.
what does that mean exactly, what do you consider passives?Strahley said:
Fishman777
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Funny.
I saw the video already.
So please educate me...
How many of the regular civilians out there have ever been shot at? I'm not talking about cops, military types, or people enaged in criminal activity. I'm talking about regular folks. How many?
How many people have ever had to shoot another person? Again not including cops, military personal or people engaged in criminal activity.
Every time you handle your loaded gun, you have an oppurtunity of shooting yourself.
Have I been reading the Brady website?
Nope. Not interested in the Brady website. I am responsible, gun owning conservative. Maybe you can tell me what it says (not that I care). You've obviously have been there before...
Glad that you have superior skills and training. Training doesn't prevent mistakes. If you think it does, you are wrong. Training cuts down on the probability that you'll make a mistake when you need to perform a certain skill. The purpose of training is to prepare yourself so that you act instincitively when you need to perform (in any area). Training doesn't make you perfect.
I've wasted enough time on this thread... This thread is spiraling downward...
I saw the video already.
So please educate me...
How many of the regular civilians out there have ever been shot at? I'm not talking about cops, military types, or people enaged in criminal activity. I'm talking about regular folks. How many?
How many people have ever had to shoot another person? Again not including cops, military personal or people engaged in criminal activity.
Every time you handle your loaded gun, you have an oppurtunity of shooting yourself.
Have I been reading the Brady website?
Nope. Not interested in the Brady website. I am responsible, gun owning conservative. Maybe you can tell me what it says (not that I care). You've obviously have been there before...
Glad that you have superior skills and training. Training doesn't prevent mistakes. If you think it does, you are wrong. Training cuts down on the probability that you'll make a mistake when you need to perform a certain skill. The purpose of training is to prepare yourself so that you act instincitively when you need to perform (in any area). Training doesn't make you perfect.
I've wasted enough time on this thread... This thread is spiraling downward...
REAPER4206969
Member
How long have you been carrying?
SCBradley
Member
And every time I use a knife I have the opportunity to cut off my own leg.
Somehow I've managed to avoid it.
Not that you care, but it makes the same kind of... (be nice)... ill thought out arguments you have.
So your argument is: even though police aren't historically given the best or even consistent firearms training, a "civilian" will always be more likely to shoot him or herself no matter what level of training they have had?
Yeah
SCBradley
Member
How does having been shot at or shooting another person cut down on the probability of shooting yourself upon reholstering, yet training doesn't?
So, have we established that the Glock and Xd each have approximately 6# of trigger pull weight (out of the box) ?
If that's the case, then wouldn't a simple 6# of trigger snag result in the Glock discharging and the Xd not, provided the latter's grip safety is not pressed in? I don't care by how much the 6# pre-cocks or partially cocks the striker since the end result is the same: with 6# pull the striker ends up fully cocked, the sear breaks, and bang.
I use what's between my ears and have good training, but I also know that in real life 'mistakes' happen. Because of the Xd's extra layer of safety (2 things must happen for the user to fire the gun unintentionally) the Xd is safer.
If that's the case, then wouldn't a simple 6# of trigger snag result in the Glock discharging and the Xd not, provided the latter's grip safety is not pressed in? I don't care by how much the 6# pre-cocks or partially cocks the striker since the end result is the same: with 6# pull the striker ends up fully cocked, the sear breaks, and bang.
I use what's between my ears and have good training, but I also know that in real life 'mistakes' happen. Because of the Xd's extra layer of safety (2 things must happen for the user to fire the gun unintentionally) the Xd is safer.
This is a link to something I just came across a few minutes ago and I posted in the "Situation" forum. Great learning experience from a shooting that happened in October and shows how great a grip saftey is............ for the bad guy anyways.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6216913#post6216913
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6216913#post6216913
that was a really bad situation described in that post..
and the grip safety was not responsible for his being shot in both hands.. he was able to return fire after he had realized that he wasn't gripping the pistol correctly.. if his grip was that weak, if he had returned fire on a pistol with no grip safety, he had a high chance of having a malfunction from limp wristing..
you cannot expect the results of this confrontation to be better than what happened, due to the circumstances described..
they all survived.. and that is all that one can hope for from participating in any armed conflict..
the grip safety issue could be applied to all sorts of preferences a gun owner makes.. caliber is one good example of this.. to have, or have not based on preference of function, or perceived functions of the firearm and it's components..
if you perceive that the grip safety is a liability in an armed conflict, do not purchase a pistol that has one..
but, with that said..
the HS/XD is a single action pistol.. the striker is completely cocked when the slide is cycled.. the only function of the trigger is to release the striker to fire.. it is not "pre-cocked" as a Glock, or M&P is.. the grip safety is there as a function of it being a single action.. if it was not SA, it would not need to have a grip safety.. as neither the Glock or M&P have a grip safety..
and the grip safety was not responsible for his being shot in both hands.. he was able to return fire after he had realized that he wasn't gripping the pistol correctly.. if his grip was that weak, if he had returned fire on a pistol with no grip safety, he had a high chance of having a malfunction from limp wristing..
you cannot expect the results of this confrontation to be better than what happened, due to the circumstances described..
they all survived.. and that is all that one can hope for from participating in any armed conflict..
the grip safety issue could be applied to all sorts of preferences a gun owner makes.. caliber is one good example of this.. to have, or have not based on preference of function, or perceived functions of the firearm and it's components..
if you perceive that the grip safety is a liability in an armed conflict, do not purchase a pistol that has one..
but, with that said..
the HS/XD is a single action pistol.. the striker is completely cocked when the slide is cycled.. the only function of the trigger is to release the striker to fire.. it is not "pre-cocked" as a Glock, or M&P is.. the grip safety is there as a function of it being a single action.. if it was not SA, it would not need to have a grip safety.. as neither the Glock or M&P have a grip safety..
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"that was a really bad situation described in that post.."
Agreed, however sometimes people get shot in the hands and you have to deal with it if you want to survive, as did this guy.
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"and the grip safety was not responsible for his being shot in both hands.."
Of course it wasn't, it was the reason he couldn't return more fire at the time he wanted to.
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he was able to return fire after he had realized that he wasn't gripping the pistol correctly."
Yes, but things are happening so fast I wouldn't want to have to worry about my grip pressing down a safety. Just my choice though.
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"if his grip was that weak, if he had returned fire on a pistol with no grip safety, he had a high chance of having a malfunction from limp wristing.."
High chance may be a little overstated, but it is possible.
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"they all survived.. and that is all that one can hope for from participating in any armed conflict.."
I agree 100%!
"that was a really bad situation described in that post.."
Agreed, however sometimes people get shot in the hands and you have to deal with it if you want to survive, as did this guy.
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"and the grip safety was not responsible for his being shot in both hands.."
Of course it wasn't, it was the reason he couldn't return more fire at the time he wanted to.
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he was able to return fire after he had realized that he wasn't gripping the pistol correctly."
Yes, but things are happening so fast I wouldn't want to have to worry about my grip pressing down a safety. Just my choice though.
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"if his grip was that weak, if he had returned fire on a pistol with no grip safety, he had a high chance of having a malfunction from limp wristing.."
High chance may be a little overstated, but it is possible.
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"they all survived.. and that is all that one can hope for from participating in any armed conflict.."
I agree 100%!
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