What's with Springfield using Brazilian frames?

bannockburn said:

My Springfield Armory M1911-A1, acquired new in 1988, was manufactured in Brazil and assembled here in the U.S. I believe the retail price was somewhere around $279 and at the time it seemed like a real bargain, compared to what Colt Governments were going for (that is if you could find them). Fit and finish were first rate, the gun itself was nice and tight with close tolerances, and it had a decent trigger right out of the box.

When I got it my first intention was to eventually have it customized by a leading M1911 gunsmith with all the bells and whistles. But the more I used it the more I came to appreciate it for its reliability and performance in its original stock configuration. So I left it as is and still continue to enjoy it just the way it came from Springfield Armory.

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Bannockburn, your Springfield Armory looks like it's had maybe 1000 rounds through it.
What's with that?

SP2000 said:

OK. Great info all. My point was that I think when many people think S/A, they think of America. (I now know about the name issue) That's my thing. I'm not knocking their products, heck I'm a Glock guy. But I know my Glock is Austrian. Same with Taurus. I know it's Brazilian. I'll bet that the vast majority of shooters think S/A products are American made. The use of the S/A name is very deceptive IMO.

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I suspect that we will see most of the Glocks in the US built in the US. Glock 42 is a US only made product.

I may have what are considered opposite ends of the spectrum: Nighthawk Custom & Norinco. Also having a slew of 1911's from SA, Colt, S&W, Kimber, Caspian, AMT, etc., I can say that the Norinco (China) continues to function 100%.

It is my understanding that SA has severed its relationship with IMBEL and is now sourcing frames from an American concern per some posts on the 1911Forum.

My Springfield Armory M1 Garands' receiver was made in Australia. Some parts are G.I., some are new made, ie: not G.I. But supposedly to G.I. spec.
I have a CZ made in Czechoslovakia and one made in the Czech Republic. I wonder which one is better.......... I bought them both here, in the USA.

It's been a while since I had a springer 1911. Can one of you guys who own one tell me what it says on the gun as to where it's made. Just a guess that it doesn't say where it's made, just probably where Springfield armory is located. It's not a big deal but I like my guns to say made in USA, Germany or wherever.

It's not a big deal but I like my guns to say made in USA, Germany or wherever.

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My SA TRP was made in Illinois. My Loaded SS Champion was made in Brazil. I like 'em both.

Has this been covered already? Not ALL of Springfield's 1911s are made in Brazil -- their higher-end models (above the Loaded) are in fact either put together in Geneseo, Illinois or completely made there ...

I'm getting curious as to why the prejudice against guns produced in Brazil or Croatia ... Especially when the bias is coming from folks whom I know are watching televisions made in Japan, driving cars from Japan or Korea, wearing boots made in China, Nikes made in Thailand, underwear made in Sri Lanka, shirts made in Bangladesh ... and sipping Starbucks coffee, beans by way of ... Brazil ...

When "American Made" doesn't also mean "Union Made", then I'm all for buying American.

Anybody really think that the best steel is made in the U.S.? Maybe 100 years ago, but not in modern history.

Then by all means, buy the company and change their practices to make it so! It's a free country and that's your right. Exercise your rights to make the change you want to see!

SP2000 said:

I have no problem with foreign guns at all. All I'm saying is IMO, an American classic like the 1911 should be made in America. (Especially when using the name Springfield Armory)

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They chose that name specifically to co-opt off of the traditional name....just like a number of other companies which have done the same thing.

Springfield Armory in Illinois co-opts the name of Springfield Armory, Massachusetts
Rock Island Armory in Nevada co-opts the name of Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois

For a bigger chunk to swallow, there's Henry Repeating Arms.

They have the good grace to put the history of Henry and the current state of the name on two separate pages (http://henryrepeating.com/about-henry-repeating.cfm) but they do come right out and claim, "...a descendant of the venerable gunmaker."

One is tempted to ask, "In what way?" But the answer seems moot.

I'm planning to buy the company someday and rename it, "Historicky Looking Rifle Company." Think that will catch on?

SP2000 said:

I'm not questioning the quality. I'm just saying that I'm not buying a 1911 with "Brazil" stamped on the side of it. Taurus is different. Its a Brazilian company. I just don't get why a company that many see as an American icon, would use Brazilian frames in "the American gun".

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Yup, go figure. They also came up with some design acronym for "USA", which actually for their pistols stands for something other than United States of America. Now, if you have no problem w/the pistols being made in Croatia, fine. How's about being openly deceived by it being a "USA" pistol? Goofy.

I'm pretty sure that Spld has always imported their frames,and probably their slides. they have cut their ejectors very thin, so that one size fits .40 and 9mm too. Thus, their slides are "off" a bit as to the dimensions of the ejector slot, compared to regular 1911's. it's not as stupid a weakness as the Series 80 Colt firing pin lock and the half strength extractor, but its a weakness. the Mainspring housing lock, to make it CA legal, was a stroke of genius by Spld

They also came up with some design acronym for "USA", which actually for their pistols stands for something other than United States of America. Now, if you have no problem w/the pistols being made in Croatia, fine. How's about being openly deceived by it being a "USA" pistol? Goofy.

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Can you expand on that? What design aspect is USA? My xDM doesn't seem to have "USA" printed on it anywhere.

Can you expand on that? What design aspect is USA? My xDM doesn't seem to have "USA" printed on it anywhere.

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Ultra Safety Assurance (USA) Trigger System on the XD line. http://www.springfield-armory.com/xdfeatures.php

Ahhh. I'd never heard of it. Guess it wasn't exactly a big part of their marketing.

This has been disproven a number of times and there is even a letter from Springfield Armory...on one of the 1911 centric forums...stating as much. I just had a chance to speak to their head of CS at the SHOT Show and thanked her for putting out that letter and putting the rumors to rest.

There are NO Springfield Armory 1911s that are completely made in the USA. All of their 1911 pistols start life in Brazil at the IMBEL factory. If your Springfield 1911 is marked "Made in USA", it means that more than 50% of the assembly/fitting/machining was completed domestically

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Well, then. I stand corrected. Emphatically (like the red "no.") Thank you.

Which one is the American gun - is it my Brazilian-built Springfield 1911 or my Maryland-built Beretta M9, or maybe my SIG built in New Hampshire? I can never remember...

(Reminds me of when my dad was giving me a hard time about buying a Japanese truck. I pointed out that my Mazda was built in New Jersey and his Ford was built in Canada. Don't even get me started on our British-built Honda.)

Well, then a lot of you guys are passing on some pretty good guns solely because of where they're put together ... the 1911 is an American design, but as I noted before, we're in the era of the global economy. If I have a really nice 1911, I hardly care if it's made by some Tibetan monk in Katmandu ...

Do you not eat produce during the winter because, even though it might be fruit or vegetables originally indigenous to North America, it's coming up to your grocery from Mexico, Central or South America?

Here's what I noted before:

I'm getting curious as to why the prejudice against guns produced in Brazil or Croatia ... Especially when the bias is coming from folks whom I know are watching televisions made in Japan, driving cars from Japan or Korea, wearing boots made in China, Nikes made in Thailand, underwear made in Sri Lanka, shirts made in Bangladesh ... and sipping Starbucks coffee, beans by way of ... Brazil ...

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It's GOTTA be a lot of work making sure everything you purchase is American made ... or do you feel this way only about 1911s? And if it's only 1911s, why not any other consumer product?

certain guns kinda "belong to" certain places.

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Why?
Now you only want Berettas made in Italy? What about your cell phone? Good luck finding one of these made in the USA.

Winchester is a venerable American name, veritably an icon ... Do I mind that my rifle marked "Winchester" is actually made in Japan? Not really, it's a doggone nice rifle, and a lot nicer than the last ones marked Winchester that came off the line in the good ol' USA.