“Hero” charges into gunfight and is killed by police

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jeff White

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
37,911
Location
Alma Illinois
Another blue on blue casualty. Police officers ambushed, armed citizen charges out of a nearby store and engages the gunman. Armed citizen shot and killed by responding officers.

Not a lot of information on what happened in this article but we need to remember that this same situation happens way too often when off duty or plainclothes officers intervene.


'Hero' killed while confronting gunman was 'died from police bullet'


https://mol.im/a/9726149


Everyone, sworn or private citizen needs to think of how they are going to look to responding officers and plan to engage from cover if you decide to engage. Two good guys dead as well as the bad guy. One of the good guys apparently killed by friendly fire.
 
Whenever I was running to a hot call (officer needs help /emergency.. or a “shots fired” call…) I always made a point of psyching myself up by chanting - LOOK OUT FOR THE COPS over and over… and that was just while driving to the scene…. That went double when I was on the scene finally. Emotions are running high, everyone’s pumping Adrenalin - anything can happen- and that’s with your own officers… Can’t tell you how many close calls I had that only involved vehicles…

Anyone, concerned citizen, off duty cop, or even officers from other jurisdictions would be really smart to hunker down and only resort to reaching for a firearm as a last resort, period.

We also had a standing order that any plain clothed officers were required to put on a well marked jacket (“police” in large letters front and rear) if they were going to assist on a hot call…

Even with all of those precautions there were several incidents during my years when officers were wounded by other officers in a shooting incident of some kind…

All of this in an urban/suburban area with multiple agencies in the same county (the day I came out of the police academy in Miami there were more than 26 police departments in Dade county). That didn’t include state and federal outfits either….
 
That's a risk anybody takes whenever they draw a weapon. You never know what that snapshot in time looks like to anybody else who sees you and you could likely end up receiving "friendly fire" yourself in a case of mistaken identity as a bad guy.
 
Do you see the headline above the link?


'Hero' killed while confronting gunman was 'died from police bullet'


https://mol.im/a/9726149

That is what the Daily Mail sends with the link when you click the share button. I didn’t put them there.

As for it being meant to denigrate, we don’t celebrate heroism here, we analyze actions to learn from them. If you want to cheer about this you’re in the wrong sub forum.



 
Perhaps you are looking at a cached page. I see

Hero civilian, 40, who was shot dead while trying to take down gunman targeting Colorado cops was 'killed by stray police bullet'

Beyond that, I'm not celebrating heroism. I had just wondered whether you had intended to denigrate the fellow, and also why you are being unnecessarily rude.

<Edit> And there's really no need to answer. Rudeness seems par for the course on this subforum, and it's my fault for continuing to expose myself to it.
 
Analyzing actions and learning from them being part of why we're here...

How would the average joe go about mitigating the potential dangers of such a mistaken identity should they find themselves in a scenario where they might require the use of a firearm to survive?

It's all circumstance driven, based on each individual scenario, of course. But I'm thinking along lines such as:

- Be aware of your surroundings. Threats, both from bad guys and friendly guys, can come from anywhere and situation awareness is critical for this.

- Once opportunity arises, make that 911 call and give them the details so officers arriving on the scene at least know some of what to expect.

- If on the phone to 911, make sure they are kept informed...and listen to what they have to say with respect to what to do and when.

- Once you judge the imminent danger has passed and it's safe to do so, re-holster your weapon. (Put it down, stow it, whatever as the situation best dictates.) Make sure you're hands and posture are non-threatening upon arrival of authorities.

- Cover...use it.


When the authorities arrive, nothing is considered "safe" until the area is "secured". I don't know what the police term is, but in the context of this I mean the police have control of the people, the weapons, and the scene. Like it or not, that may mean good guys in handcuffs until everything is sorted out because they really don't know who is and who is not a threat when they are inbound to such a scene.

I, for one, do not relish the thought of defending myself or my family only to find myself being shot by the good guys for my actions.
 
Something with a little more information and a clear lesson for all of us.
Johnny Hurley was hailed by police as a hero for shooting and killing a gunman they say had killed one officer and expressed hatred for police in a Denver suburb. But when another officer rushed in to respond and saw Hurley holding the suspect’s AR-15, he shot Hurley, killing him, police revealed Friday.

The disclosure helped clarify what happened on Monday when three people — Hurley, Arvada Police Officer Gordon Beesley and the suspected gunman, Ronald Troyke — died in a string of shootings in the historic downtown district of Arvada, an area with popular shops, restaurants, breweries and other businesses about 7 miles (10 kilometers) northwest of downtown Denver.

According to a timeline and video released by police, Troyke, 59, ambushed Beesley after he pulled his truck into a parking spot near Beesley’s patrol car as Beesley was responding to a report of a suspicious person.

The video shows Troyke running toward Beesley down an alley. When Beesley turns around, Troyke raises his gun and fires at him as two people stand nearby, police said. Beesley falls to the ground in the video.

According to the video, apparently from a surveillance camera, and a police narration of it, Troyke grabs an AR-15 rifle from his truck and is carrying it when Hurley confronts him and shoots him with a handgun. When another officer arrives, Hurley is holding Troyke’s AR-15 and the officer opened fire, police said.

Hurley’s shooting of Troyke and the officer’s shooting of Hurley are not shown on the video.

Police had not previously confirmed Hurley’s role or said who shot him. In the video posted Friday, Police Chief Link Strate described Hurley as a hero whose actions likely saved lives. He didn’t offer an apology but called Hurley’s death by a responding officer “equally tragic” to Beesley’s killing.

“The threat to our officers and our community was stopped by a hero named Johnny Hurley,” Strate said. “Johnny’s actions can only be described as decisive, courageous and effective in stopping further loss of life.”
Click to expand...
 
I’m trying to think of the reason Hurley thought it was a good idea to walk around with the bad guy’s AR. The other responding officers should be looking at open hands, not hands holding a gun. Maybe Hurley was concerned about a second bad guy and was going to use the AR for defense instead of his pistol? Sad and unfortunate to end that way.
 
Last edited:
Hartkopf said:
hought it was a good idea to walk around with the bad guy’s AR
Click to expand...

You're assuming that there was any thought about it involved. He's just shot a guy, justifiably, and he's going to be pumped full of adrenaline and his mind will be racing. Logically we can say that the attacker's weapon has to be secured against their getting it or anyone else getting it, but you also don't want to be mistaken for the attacker so you don't want to be seen with that weapon in your hands to avoid being seen as a threat instead of a victim/bystander/ or defender. In his situation he may simply have not known he still had it in his hands or he may not have wanted to put it down because he's still thinking about protecting people from harm.

That's why the lesson learned for all of us that find ourselves defending ourselves or others is to never forget that responding LEOs or even others like us interested in defending others can mistake us as the aggressor. We want to be in control of the situation, but we don't want to appear to be a threat so we don't get shot ourselves.
 
He was a hero. Unfortunately today for LE, everyone is also a potential suspect, especially when responding to an officer down. Wanting to help is great. Helping is great. But the good guys have to KNOW that you’re a good guy. And that can be next to, if not, impossible because of the rapidly changing dynamics of an active shooter.
 
Adrenaline is a strange thing. Perhaps our hero knew the cavalry was arriving, but in the throes of a major adrenaline dump, wasn't mentally processing the need to get his hands up and his weapon on the ground. My employer wants its employees off-duty or in plainclothes to have a badge hanging from the neck if a situation "develops," not "cool guy" Hollywood-fashion clipped on the belt, and we teach, if involved in a non-uniformed shooting, hands-up, badge in hand if at all possible, weapon holstered or on the ground... The more one works through this possible scenario in advance, clearly, the likelier one is to survive the first wave of response, historically, the most problematic.
 
Hartkopf said:
I’m trying to think of the reason Hurley thought it was a good idea to walk around with the bad guy’s AR. The other responding officers should be looking at open hands, not hands holding a gun. Maybe Hurley was concerned about a second bad guy and was going to use the AR for defense instead of his pistol? Sad and unfortunate to end that way.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps he was removing the weapon from the proximity of the bad guy to make sure he was safe from it in case the bad guy wasn't completely incapacitated. We will never know , but picking it up seems a definite mistake.
 
Jeff White said:
We will never know what Hurley thought. It’s never a good idea to be visibly armed when responding officers arrive, especially when they are responding to an officer down active shooter call.
Click to expand...

This, and unless things at the scene were still kinetic, there was probably no reason to mess with the evidence either. Being heroic doesn't always equate to being smart. Half the time people do something heroic, and risk their lives, it's simply because they didn't think it through beforehand... a TRUE hero (at least in my book) knows of the danger outright. They're fully aware, probably scared ****less, but they saddle up and sally forth anyways.
 
Had to delete some. Let's not cast aspersions to the participants. We don't know the entire story yet. The advice to not be holding a long arm when the police arrive is good. Some plain clothes officers have been shot by accident because of mistaken identity. It is complex and insults get us nowhere.
 
Whenever you have armed people encountering each other in a high stress situation there is a very real danger of a blue on blue incident. In the Infantry we used measures near and far recognition signals and running passwords to try to reduce the danger of firing on friendly forces. I have related in other threads how the one time I intervened off duty when three subjects were removing parts from my neighbor's truck in the wee hours of the morning that even though the responding deputies would know me on sight and dispatch was told who I was and that I was an off duty officer and armed that I made certain that I did not have a gun in my hand when the deputies arrived to make the arrest.

Working in a rural are gave me plenty of opportunities to respond to calls where an armed property owner was holding someone caught inside a machinery shed or barn. I always hit the light bar on my squad car when I drove up the drive to make sure the property owner knew who was coming up the drive.

If you decide to intervene or if you have to use your firearm to defend yourself you need to be aware of the very real possibility of being mistaken for the bad guy. Armed people under stress is a dangerous situation.
 
P89DCSS said:
No proof the good Samaritan picked up the AR, just the word of people that have a vested interest in the narrative. I'll wait to see the video tape footage the local authorities are sitting on before I pass judgment.
Click to expand...

This is the Strategies Tactics and Training forum. Speculation that the police murdered the good Samaritan is not on topic here. That speculation does nothing to further our mission of learning everything we can about an incident. All members are warned to keep their comments on topic for this subforum.
 
Part of our training was when off duty, if your gun comes out, your shield also has to come out, and preferably held high in the air, visible front and rear.

We also had response training if challenged from behind by someone who stated they were police and ordered you to freeze or drop your weapon. Rule was to respond with key words, but do what the person behind you ordered you to do.

This current situation is sad for all involved.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Hero was shot dead trying to take down gunman targeting CO cops was 'killed by stray police bullet'
Replies
2
Views
355
hso
hso
J
  • Locked
Man who disarmed criminal shot by responding police
2 3
Replies
51
Views
4K
Warp
Warp
M
  • Locked
Bad guys, police and armed citizens
2 3
Replies
65
Views
4K
TooTaxed
T
J
  • Locked
Surviving a Deadly Force Encounter - Dealing with the Police while Armed
Replies
18
Views
3K
Ryder
R
T
  • Locked
Mas Ayoob in Memphis
Replies
5
Views
290
GEM
G
Back
Top