10mm vs 45acp.

[Bcwitt]

Ive never owned 10mm, but i have much experience with 45acp in over a dozen different guns. Does a 10mm offer a SIGNIFICANT performance increase? Paper ballistics are one thing, but is there a notable benefit? What would a 10mm do that a 45 would not? I dont really want a new caliber that doesn't offer a substantial increase in performance.

 

[FL-NC]

They are definitely more of a "handfull" to shoot, when it comes to recoil.Along with a significant increase in cost and challenges locating the ammunition. They have pretty much been replaced in the law enforcement world with other calibers. For defensive use against humans I don't think they are needed- 45 ACP will do fine in a similar sized gun with a round that is more available and economic. In fact, I would trust a 45 ACP to stop any threat human or animal in the lower 48, though some people like 10mm for hunting. I myself carry 40 S&W in the woods in the southeast. I am confident 13 rounds of 40 will address hogs or black bear just fine- nether of which are overly aggressive in my experience. The very experienced bear guides I know in Maine all carry 45 ACP.

 

[hoardingthemanual]

I like it because everyone prefers 45 and 40. We’re going to spout our biases. Logic be damned.

 

[mcb]

45 ACP is typically pushing ~450 ft-lbs of energy with standard 230gr bullets and with some light weight (~185gr) +P loads approaching 600 ft-lbs. The 10mm Auto can exceed 700 ft-lbs with 180-200 gr bullets.

The paper ballistics are not a complete lie. The 10mm Auto is a fairly modest step up in performance compared to 45 ACP. For personal defense both are more than adequate but that dose not mean 45 ACP and 10mm are similar cartridges. The extra energy and velocity of 10mm Auto do make a difference at the target and this can be seen in anything from steel plates to deer. But the recoil is also a similar step up and that comes with its own liability's. If you pick good bullets you can do more with 10mm Auto, whether you need that extra is up to you and your application.

 

[Bcwitt]

I like it because everyone prefers 45 and 40. We’re going to spout our biases. Logic be damned.

 

[Rule3]

I like it because everyone prefers 45 and 40. We’re going to spout our biases. Logic be damned.

Nah, the debate is always 10mm vs 44 Mag for bear defense!
15 rounds of 10mm vs 6 rounds of 44mag.

Then the point of the Sirus Dog Sled Patrol control carry 10mm as a sidearm!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol


https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/nine-lives-of-the-10-mm-auto/

 

[Buzznrose]

I always like Paul Harrell’s take on such important and complex topics and questions…

 

[Balrog]

I think if we are talking personal defense against other people, its probably not going to matter if you use 10mm or 45. There may be some advantages with 10mm.. you get an extra round or two in the magazine for example, and you may sometimes get better barrier penetration. But similar hits on target will probably have similar effect.

I don't handgun hunt, but 10mm may have some advantages there.

 

[LimaCharlie]

The 10mm ballistics overlap the 357 magnum ballistics with both topping out around 800 foot-pounds of muzzle energy from a six-inch test barrel. The 10mm has a slight edge over the 357 magnum with heavier bullets for a little more momentum.

I have shot 1911s and Glocks in both 10mm and 45 ACP +P simultaneously. It was hard to tell the difference in felt recoil.

 

[Bcwitt]

I always like Paul Harrell’s take on such important and complex topics and questions…

that was pretty good.

 

[zaitcev]

What would a 10mm do that a 45 would not?

IMHO, the two chief benefits that 10mm offers over .45 ACP are:

1. Better effectiveness on dangerous animals. When an animal charges you, the projection is often unfavourable, with thick layers of flesh and bones between the defender and the vitals. The better penetration of 10mm can be of service then, assuming suitable projectiles.

2. Greater magazine capacity. This can come handy in many situations.

You didn't ask about the demerits of 10mm, so I'm leaving those out.

 

[jmr40]

Against 2 legged predators I don't think there is any real difference. 10mm holds a few more rounds in the same size gun and I suppose that is a small advantage.

Where the 10mm shines is being able to shoot 200-220 gr hardcast loads at 1200-1300 fps for large 4 legged predator protection. It is possible to equal that in a 357 mag revolver if you use a 6" or longer barrel. 10mm does it in a smaller, more compact pistol holding 10 more rounds than a revolver. Most 10mm pistols accept a mounted light which is a plus for me on a bear country camping pistol.

For hunting I'd still prefer a long barreled revolver. They have better triggers and will almost always be more accurate, but for defensive use I prefer a 10mm.

That said, If I had a 45 that I liked and was concerned about large 4 legged predator protection I'd seriously look at the BuffaloBore and similar loads shooting a 250 gr hardcast at around 900 fps. That won't match 10mm, but I'd think would be adequate for most people.

 

[CDW4ME]

I have 1911's and Glocks in 10mm and 45 acp.
One difference is I can handload regular HP bullets like the 180 Nosler or Hornady XTP to a velocity that is conducive to expansion, 1,200+ fps.
With 45 acp I am less confident in the expansion of commonly available HP reloading bullets, thus I'm compelled to use only factory HP ammo (Ranger, HST).

 

[murf]

Get a glock 21 and shoot 45 super.

luck,

murf

 

[MikeInOr]

Ive never owned 10mm, but i have much experience with 45acp in over a dozen different guns. Does a 10mm offer a SIGNIFICANT performance increase? Paper ballistics are one thing, but is there a notable benefit? What would a 10mm do that a 45 would not? I dont really want a new caliber that doesn't offer a substantial increase in performance.

I have been trying to talk my self into a 10mm for years. Specifically a XDm subcompact but I haven't found any real justification to add one to my aresonal of 45acp carry guns. I look forwards to seeing if there are any justificatilns that make sense to me.

 

[Bcwitt]

I have been trying to talk my self into a 10mm for years. Specifically a XDm subcompact but I haven't found any real justification to add one to my aresonal of 45acp carry guns. I look forwards to seeing if there are any justificatilns that make sense to me.

Thats what i was thinking.

 

[Bcwitt]

It seems like a 45acp owner that doesn't handgun hunt has very little to gain from a 10mm.

 

[Tinman357]

I have both. A Wilson Xtac and an older Kimber classic rebuilt with Wilson parts. Both are reliable and very accurate.

I have a G40 as well. I have used both on various critters and have seen the end results of top shelf ammo from both calibers.

I carry the G40 when I'm out in the wilderness. 1911 for SD. Either will do both, but the 10mm gives me more range, quite a bit more ammo on board, and noticebly better terminal performance on the larger animals.

All that said, and to answer your OP, yes, the 10mm (loaded properly) will significantly outperform the .45 assuming that you are equally proficient with both.

Note: The only really dangerous things I've encounterd out in the wilds were the two legged class of dangerous animals.

I don't know what kind of critters you have out there in Pennsylvania, but a .45 should do what you need. If you just want a new pistol that is a step up in performance to justify the expense, then a 10mm is a worthy investment.

 

[Bcwitt]

I have both. A Wilson Xtac and an older Kimber classic rebuilt with Wilson parts. Both are reliable and very accurate.

I have a G40 as well. I have used both on various critters and have seen the end results of top shelf ammo from both calibers.

I carry the G40 when I'm out in the wilderness. 1911 for SD. Either will do both, but the 10mm gives me more range, quite a bit more ammo on board, and noticebly better terminal performance on the larger animals.

All that said, and to answer your OP, yes, the 10mm (loaded properly) will significantly outperform the .45 assuming that you are equally proficient with both.

Note: The only really dangerous things I've encounterd out in the wilds were the two legged class of dangerous animals.

I don't know what kind of critters you have out there in Pennsylvania, but a .45 should do what you need. If you just want a new pistol that is a step up in performance to justify the expense, then a 10mm is a worthy investment.

I do not disagree, but when i have a large stock of something else that is sufficient, I tend to be a bit of a McNevaronist.

 

[Buzznrose]

Get a glock 21 and shoot 45 super.

luck,

murf

That’s one option…

 

[Buzznrose]

that was pretty good.

I only wish Paul would have compared the FMJ 10MM when he threw in the .45 ball ammo

 

[Hugger-4641]

10mm is definitely more expensive to shoot and hand load. It definitely does penetrate better and do so with or without heavier bullets than the .45.
I have both, unless I'm hunting or expecting defense against a bear, .45 is probably adequate.
I can't really tell any difference in recoil between my G20 and my Sil's G21. But my G20 is more accurate.

 

[Bcwitt]

I only wish Paul would have compared the FMJ 10MM when he threw in the .45 ball ammo

Agree

 

[JR24]

IMO it depends on what you want it to do. Human sized targets, I don’t believe 10mm offers all that much, if any, improvement and at the cost of a little rougher recoil with good hot loads.

Sure you can manage to shoot one as well as a .45 but for me (and I did a lot of side by side testing) it’s just harder to get the same scores and times, so there’s a trade off in focus and intensity.

For animals or something where you need more penetration, 200 grains at 1200 fps is impressive and a solid woods round. That said underwood 255 grain +P hard casts in .45 are also pretty good.

Also, for me, I tend to shoot my 10mms more accurately out past 20 yards, but that could be a me thing.

On the other hand, depending on your .45, you might only be springs and a barrel away from .45 Super or even .460 Rowland (ok you’re probably gonna need a comp too) that can do some impressive things too, for similar cost if you reload.

 

[sparkyv]

Well put, mcb and you too, jmr40.

45 ACP is typically pushing ~450 ft-lbs of energy with standard 230gr bullets and with some light weight (~185gr) +P loads approaching 600 ft-lbs. The 10mm Auto can exceed 700 ft-lbs with 180-200 gr bullets.

The paper ballistics are not a complete lie. The 10mm Auto is a fairly modest step up in performance compared to 45 ACP. For personal defense both are more than adequate but that dose not mean 45 ACP and 10mm are similar cartridges. The extra energy and velocity of 10mm Auto do make a difference at the target and this can be seen in anything from steel plates to deer. But the recoil is also a similar step up and that comes with its own liability's. If you pick good bullets you can do more with 10mm Auto, whether you need that extra is up to you and your application.

Against 2 legged predators I don't think there is any real difference. 10mm holds a few more rounds in the same size gun and I suppose that is a small advantage.

Where the 10mm shines is being able to shoot 200-220 gr hardcast loads at 1200-1300 fps for large 4 legged predator protection. It is possible to equal that in a 357 mag revolver if you use a 6" or longer barrel. 10mm does it in a smaller, more compact pistol holding 10 more rounds than a revolver. Most 10mm pistols accept a mounted light which is a plus for me on a bear country camping pistol.

For hunting I'd still prefer a long barreled revolver. They have better triggers and will almost always be more accurate, but for defensive use I prefer a 10mm.

That said, If I had a 45 that I liked and was concerned about large 4 legged predator protection I'd seriously look at the BuffaloBore and similar loads shooting a 250 gr hardcast at around 900 fps. That won't match 10mm, but I'd think would be adequate for most people.